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Leader (1850-1860), 15th March 1851, Edition Town of 2, Page 238, Untitled Article

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      More accounts from the Cape of Good Hope bring melancholy details of the inglorious war with the Natives , in which defeat is doubly disgraceful and victory but the choice of a minor degradation . Some of the Government papers here are keeping up the cry that the colony maty paf fBf the , iflj £ | but England is far more respofisiblft K > r it than the colony is . If the colonists had beeii left lone , they would have settled these Border questions long ago : it is the Government in Downijag-street which keeps up the wars , by tttniperin& wiffi the Natlvdi and holding back the colbnis ' ts , anfl it is the People of England which maintains that Government in power .

      Untitled Article

      The defeat of Ministers on Tuesday was only by a small majority , 120 to 119 ; but still it was a defeat . Lord Duncan ' s motion was to the following effect : — " Whereas it appears by returns laid before this House , and before the Select Committee of Woods , Forests , Works , &c , that , during a period of seven years ( from 1842-3 to 1848-9 ) , the gross income derived from the possessions and land revenues of the Crown has amounted to £ 2 , 446 , 785 , and that out of this sum only £ 774 , 000 has been paid to the public account at the Exchequer ; and whereas during the same period it appears

      that a sum amounting to £ 1 , 672 , 785 has been withheld for charges of collection and management , and for other expenses charged upon the said revenues , it is expedient , with a view to place the expenditure of this branch of the public service under the more immediate control of Parliament , that the gross income derived from the said revenues should hereafter be paid into the Exchequer ; and that the necessary expenses for managing and collecting the same should be voted by this House , upon estimates to be annually submitted to Parliament by her Majesty ' s Government . "

      In bringing forward the motion , he was at pains to explain that he did not wish to bring any charge against any public department ; all he wished was to raise the question whether it was for the advantage of her Majesty ' s service to allow a department to collect and spend the public money without the control of Parliament . The Commissioners of Woods and Forests are responsible only to the Treasury , and the only cognizance which Parliament has of their proceedings is contained in a report annually presented to the House about the middle of the session , but not circulated among the members till September or October , when the session is fairly over . The gross rental of the property belonging to the Crown , if duly administered , would be amply sufficient for maintaining the Crown in all due dignity and splendour .

      " The revenues of the Crown are derived from three sources—first , from the landed revenues , consisting of house property in different parts of London , such as in Whitehall , St . James , Regent-street , and the Tower ; landed estates in different parts of the kingdom , fines on management , &c . Over all this property there is placed that great national bailiff , the Secretary for the Treasury . " Now , with all due submission to the abilities of his honourable friend—yet , considering all the demands that were made upon his time , he protested against his

      honourable friend—he protested against such a large property being placed at his disposal . His honourable friend is certainly not the person whom , in his present position , he would choose to manage his private estate—{ laughter ) , —and still less is he the person to manage the estates of" the Crown . His honourable friend , when asked what was the rental of the property under his care , answered , that there was no rental—none arising from the property in Wales , Scotland , or Ireland . There are certain fee-farm rents which were committed to the care of

      the Commissioners of Woods , valued at £ 1000 a-year , and yet , would the House believe it that these fee-farm renttj have never been collected—that they have been totally lost , and that the account of them was only found after a long search , in a drawer of the office of Woods and Forests , after the appointment of this committee . ( Hear , hear ) . The second branch of the property consists of tin * royal parks — St . Juiiies's-park , Hyde-park , the Green-park , and other parks in the metropolis . The groHH income of tin « e parka amounts to £ 11 , 02 ( 5 . The expenditure to £ 61 , 729 . The third portion ol the property consists of tue royal forests—these are seventeen in number—the New 1 « orest in Humpshire , contuslin ^ of 60 , 000 acres ; the Demi Fores , in Gloucestershire , consisting of 20 , 000 acres ; and many other forests , altogeiher amounting to about 100 , 000 acres . Thin part of the property has been valued at two millions sterling ; and yet , on looking to the latest returns of the Commission erH of Woods and Foreuts , he found that the income of thirt property amounted to £ . 'J 6 , 3 () . ' { , while the expenditure was £ 3 b " , 784- — ( hear , hear ) - , —bo that ihe expenditure was larger than the income in the iimimgeinent of property that was valued at two million !* sterling , lie Haw many honourable gentlemen oppouite who were intimately acquainted with the value of lund , and he would ask them i ( it wan not a monstrous thing tlmt property of the value of two millions should produce absolutely nothing to the national exchequer . ( I . oiul erica of ' Hear , hear' ) V Ho went to describe how the Crown had become possessed of a large portion of the land of . England , nd how various kingswho had unfortunately been y courtiers , had given Crown lands . In the agreed that she should « .. -

      place her heriditery rGtdfibes hi the disposal of the House of Comm&is , an " cl £ ne result of that arrangement was , that Ine Minister of that day carne into possession of a ? Cry useful source of patronage and favour . So wtell was this exercised during the last eentury-, th&t whten Mr . Pitt instituted an inquiry Iflto the fiMmagenient of the Woods arid FdrfcBts ift If 97 , it was found that the annual revenues of the CJirown from thatiburce had dwindled down to £ 5000 k- ^ ear . lf t consequence of that inquiry , several large ffc&Clons of the property were restored to the publie ; but of late f&n , it would appear , that the whole department has again fallen into a state of gross neglect . To take the case of the royal forests , for example . Lord Duncan had paid a visit to the New Forest during last recess , and never had he witnessed such

      a state of confusion as the way in which affairs were managed there . He had been placed in communication with Mr . Heed , the deputy-surveyor , who had the managpment of the forest , and when he called that gentleman ' s attention to the fact that the lots of timber lying by the roadside did not correspond with the official catalogue , Mr . Reed referred him to the solicitor , and immediately afterwards set off to France . One of the foremen committed suicide , and another ran away ; indeed , the whole concern seemed to be in a state of confusion . Major Freeman , who had been employed to look into the management , said that a system of robbery had been going on for years . " Everyone in the neighbourhood seemed to think that the forests belonged to them . " Then there was an enormous amount of

      Crown revenues spent among the lawyers . The law expenses paid to the solicitors of the " Woods and Forests during the seven years ending in 1848 amounted to £ 79 , 241 . This was the amount paid in London alone , besides which there were large bills paid to solicitors in Dublin and Edinburgh , and other places . In Edinburgh alone the bills amounted to £ 3000 a-year . But the most startling fact connected with the management of the Woods and Forests is that , between 1842 and 1848 , no less than £ 6 , 696 , 292 worth of the Crown property has been sold by order of the Treasury , without Parliament being made acquainted with the sales until afterwards , through the annual reports . Lord Duncan concluded by moving the resolution , which was

      seconded by Mr . Hume . Lord Seymour denied that the revenues were in the disorderly state in which Lord Duncan had represented them , and stated the annual returns of income from 1797 to show what a large increase had taken place . He had taken great trouble to make himself master of the subject , having previously believed that there were gross abuses in this department complained of . His objection to the proposed resolution was , first , that it would be ineffective , for Parliament could not go into details of expenditure , but could do no more than lay down a broad principle , and insist on its being adhered to ; and , secondly , that it would be impossible to carry out this resolution , and at the same time to carry into effect the proposed division of the offices of Works and Woods . He therefore

      moved , as an amendment , for leave to bring in a bill , of which Lord John Ru 9 sell had given notice early in the session ( a bill the same as that of last year , for dividing the above offices ) , for providing for the better management of the Crown lands . Mr . Hume and Sir H . Willoughby supported the motion , as did also Sir Benjamtn Hall . The latter suggested that the Crown lands should be treated as encumbered estates , put up to auction , and sold for the benefit of the Crown . The House having divided , the numbers were—For the motion 120 Against it 119 Majority in favour of the motion 1

      The debate on the Navy Estimates , on Monday evening , presented no new feature . Sir T . F . Baking in moving that the number of men voted for the naval service of the year 1851-2 be 89 , 000 , Cook credit on the purt of the Government for having acted with marvellous economy in the expenditure of that department . During tho last two years the estimates have undergone a reduction of £ 1 , 600 , 000 . Compared with 183 / 5 , the naval expenditure of 1861 ahows an increase of £ 1 , 32 G , <> 28 , but then we must remember that the French naval estimates have increased £ 1 , 735 , 000 during that period . Mr . Hume ridiculed the notion of increasing the number of our seamen because the French increased their navy . In a late

      discussion in the French Chamber , the reduction ol their nuvul expenditure w « b opposed on the ground of ours being ho large . It wa . s ridiculous to Bee two nations acting ho absurdly . He referred to the sweeping reforms which had taken ' place when Sir James Gruhain presided over the Admiralty . He reduced the navy estimates to £ 4 , 000 , 000 , and yet it was admitted that the navy was in a better condition after the reductions had been made than it was previously . In the years 183 / 5- ( i-7-H the average number of men wan 29 , « 38 , and ho could not see any reason lor having more than that number in 1861 . Then as regaids the African squadron , there was now an excellent opportunity for getting quit of that costly absurdity . Hie French Government and

      the United States' dtiTWnment were both anxious to he relieved frotti their engagements , so that the great difficulty of last yfear was now removed . In a digression updn thfe late Ministerial crisis Mr . Hume said : — " It appeared td him that Lord Stanley paid but a very poor compliment to the Ptotectionist party in that House when he stated that there was only one man among them fit for Office . Surely of the 270 gentlemen or thereabout who the other night voted for protection there must be enough . t * lent tb fill up the Treasury bench , the more espe&ialljr when it was borne in mind that all the real work in each department was done by the clerks , who remained stationary . ( A laugh . ) It was not merely Mr . Punch who made a jest of their

      proceedings , they were the laughing-stock of all Europe , and well they might be . Who did not see , when the ' Old Doctor , ' as Mr . Punch designated a well-known personage , was sent for , upon the remarkably judicious advice of the noble lord , that all the ' Old Doctor' would direct would be As you were' ? ( A laugh . ) There was not one improvement in any way connected with the departments with which he had to do , that the ' Old Doctor' had not done his best to stop ; for such a man , therefore , to be called in was utterly preposterous . ( ' They didn't send for you ! ' ) No , they didn ' t send for him ; for he had been pretty nearly as long in practice as the doctor that was sent for ( a laugh ) , had ' paid , he believed , more attention to passing events for the last twenty years ( hear , hear ) ,

      and very possibly he might have prescribed rather better than the other ' Old Doctor ' had done . ( ' Hear , hear , 'and a laugh . ) It was his opinion that the country looked upon them as a set of dolts for allowing things to go on as they had gone on during the last two or three weeks . ( Hear , hear . ) There were 658 honourable gentlemen , representatives of the people of Great Britain and Ireland , Utterly incapable of coming to a decision upon great national questions one way or the other . ( Hear , hear . ) There was this miserable Papal Aggression Bill ; why , passed as it was introduced , that bill would involve imminent danger of a civil war in the sister country , yet 330 or 350 members of that House had voted for it in its full extent . He trusted

      that the noble lord would either bring in a bill that would satisfy the country upon the subject or give up legislation upon it altogether . ( Hear , hear . ) But , at all events , don ' t let the business of the country be at a stand still for three other weeks or more . Rather than this , much as he should deprecate anything tending to excite a No-Popery' cry , he should say that her Majesty had better have recourse to a general election . In fact , this seemed to be the onl y effectual remedy ; for suppose thievoteof 39 , 000 men refused , the Cabinet would cry out , « We cannot go on . ' The House would say , You must get on . ' The Cabinet would say , 'We won ' t get on ; ' the Old Doctor would again be called in , there would be the same prescription as before , of ' As you were / and so the farce would , for the second time , be presented . ( Laughter , and cries of ' Hear , hear . ' )"

      He concluded by moving that the number of seamen and marines should be reduced to 30 , 000 . Mr . Cobden supported the motion , and in doing so paid a high compliment to Sir James Graham : — " The member for Ripon—of whose administrative talents no one had a higher opinion than he entertained , for he had had the honour of sitting with that right honourable baronet upon the same committee for three y < ars , and he well knew his ma 6 tery of details and the comprehensive knowledge he displayed—( hear , hear )—had ex < rcised a most useful sway at the Admiralty from 1830 to 1834 . "

      Mr . Cohden condemned the entire dock-yard system as wasteful and extravagant , and quoted Lamartine , Thiers , and other French statesmen , to show that the way in which France and England act in their naval expenditure was just a game at " B > ggar my neighbour , " without the slightest reason to justify it . He hoped the House would allow him , on a future occasion , to submit a motion for asking her Majesty to present a proposal with a view to prevent a continuance of this system , and , if possible , to enter upon a system of mutual reductions . " It was inconsistent with the advanced civilization of tho age

      that two great nations like France and England , professing amity , should all the while be arming to the teeth , as if each expected the other to spring upon it like a wild beast . " It was folly to talk of relieving the burden of taxation by transfer ! ing it from one class to another . He saw no way of relief except by a reduction of our armed force . Lord John Kuhsiu . i , took great pains to show that our armaments are much smaller than we ought to have . The facilities of transit , by which large bodies of troops could be rap idly moved from one point to another , placed this country much more in the position of a continental country than it was when Sir James Graham was at the head

      of the Admiralty . We ought to look also to our dependence on other nations for food : — " 1 ' ur the lawt two or three years we had imported 8 , 000 , 000 or 9 , 000 , 000 quarters of pa in . Let any one think what a lot > ti it would t > c to this country , btii . g i > i ihe practice of having part of our food to that amount from foreign countries—( ch > mra and laughter from the Protectionists ) — if , in tue event of war , we hud no naval force . ( Renewedcheers and laughter . ) lie was , therefore , of opinion that , necessary an it was to huve » naval force to protect our trade in ull former wurti , it nation like ours , which allowed a free import of grain , and w »« now in the habit—in ihe practice which might continue — of importing 8 , 000 , 000 or 9 , 000 , 000 quartern of grain annually , was Btill more under the necessity of inaintuining a naval force . " Mr . Milnku Giiwon was entirely at issue with the

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      PARLIAMENT OF THE WEEK

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  • Citation
    • Leader (1850-1860), March 15, 1851, page 238, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/vm2-ncseproduct1874/page/2/