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Bchicoff , but it has not been proved to bo an ultimatum . An answer was requested in five days , and the best proof that it was not an ultimatum is , that other notes have since been presented . Lord Stratford , writing on the 9 th , is not able to inform us what answer would bo given by the Porte . That is the whole of the official information we have received . Other information has reached us in common with the public , because in these days of enterprise no small portion of business is transacted by electric telegraph ; and although that is convenient and useful in some respects , it is not so in others , because , although ifc announces effects and facts , it seldom communicates the reasons which lead to them . " Lord d-AEENDOJS" then repeated the public facts communicated by the telegraph , and complained of their incompleteness . He said , in
conclusion" The policy of the Government has undergone no change ; they look upon it as a true policy , and they consider it important to the interests of this country to uphold the Turkish empire , and important also to the interests of Europe generally . In answer to the question which my noble friend asks me relative to the understanding of the French and English ambassadors at the Porte , I have no hesitation in saying that they do take the same views—that they are acting in concert—and so far have carried , out the wishes and intentions of their respective Governments , between whom there exists a complete identity of feeling on this subject , and between whom the negotiations have been conducted with the most cordial concert . ( Cheers . ) Lord ILiitDwiCKE and Lord Beaumont made some
remarks on the gravity of the question , and the interest in it of the people at large , but , at the request of Lord Bbottgham , ( objecting to discussion , when we are in ignorance of nine-tenths of the facts , and when delicate negotiations are proceeding , ) the subject dropped . In the Commons , Mr . Diseaeii made a short statement on the same subject , referring , more especially , to the request , by Colonel Kose , that the British fleet should advance from Malta . He asked , was there concert on tlie part of the English and Frencli ambassadors at Constantinople , and what were'their instructions . Lord John Russell went over the facts , approving of Admiral Dundas ' s refusal to forward the fleet from
Malta , and characterised the demands of Russia as " dangerous to the independence of the Ottoman Porte , " and as infringing , in some degree , those stipulations which already existed . There has been the most perfect concert and ^ accordancc of views between her Majesty ' s ambassador at Constantinople and the ambassador of the Emperor of the French . Both have taken the same view of the project of the convention which was proposed by the ambassador of Russia . I should say , further , that in the present state of the negotiations it would not be consistent with the good of the public service that the Government should produce the instructions under which Lord tratford has been
S acting . I will only say that they may bo generally described as instructions leaving much to his discretion , and only pressing upon him the fixed policy of her Majesty ' s Government to require adherence to the faith of treaties , and to support the independence and integrity of the Turkish empire . ( Loud cheers . ) I may , perhaps , be permitted to say that although wo have received no official intimation , yet I trust that the Russian Government will finally ask for no other securities from Turkey than are compatible with tho full authority of the Sultun as the Sovereign of Turkey and with the maintenance of the poaco of Europe . ( Cheers . )
CHURCH RATES . Two separate plans for the reform of Church Rates were proposed on Thursday . Mr . R . PniixiaroitE , in statjgg ; . / U ' proposal , explained the circumstances of Church Rates , and the manner of their assessment . ' By the ancient laws of England , dated as far back as the time of Canute , tho residents in each parish are bound to provide menus for tlie repair of the church , and the maintenance of the usual religious observances , and tire authorized to meet in vestry for such purposes . The tax was originally a personal tax , and still may be assessed according to all the personal estate of the parishioner ; but in gencrnl it is levied on the occupancy of the land- tlio glebe lands of the parish being alone free from the burthen . The institution was
founded on tlie lrmxhni law that the Church and State were identical ; and at a time when no dissent from the State religion was acknowledged . But now dissenters had obtained legal recognition , and from 1 ( 588 to 1852 possessed no less than 54 , 804 chapels , facts we should bear in mind in considering whether the law of church rates should or should not be retained . It might be wiid that the dissenter bud purchased his land subject ; to the Church rales , but bin house- built upon tho laud was cquully subject to the nite . Besides
the law upon tlie whole subject was doubtful , especially oil the point still raised in the IJrainbree cuho ( the lawsuit in which hud lusted sixteen years , and cost l ( i , 0 U 0 / . ) , aw to whether a minority of tin ; parishioners in vestry could authorize a rate . If tlie minority hud not such- power tho obstructive majority would bo open to law proceedings in the ecclesiastical courts , and to excommunication for coiil-iimncy . Thin state of tlie law -hard on tho Dissenter and unjust towards tl » e Clmrcluuau — - bud led to the abandonment of
church rates in many of the great manufacturing districts , particularly in Yorkshire and Leicestershire , in which cases all repairs of the church have been always fully supplied by voluntary subscriptions among the Churchmen themselves . This substitution was suggested by the various evils arising out of the levy of church rates , such as the separation of the parishes into two parties , and the quarrels , the litigation , atfd the feuds between both .
This was as unsatisfactory a state of things as could be conceived , and for the very reason that no great excitement on this question appeared to exist at the moment , it would be wise and statesmanlike to deal with it at once and for ever . ( Cheers . ) Mr . Phillimore , " not using the language of Radicalism , " quoted what Lord Derby ( then Mr . Secretary Stanley ) said of the tax in ] 834 : — " Did any man suppose that those interests of the church were served by maintaining every one of its abuses ? Did
any man suppose that those interests were to be promoted by a profanation of the church itself year after year—by a desecration of the house of God , by a squabble about church rates at each succeeding Easter ? In rejecting such a proposition [ Lord Althorp's motion ] let them remember the immense amount of responsibility which they assumed , the quantity of ill-blood and heart-burnings which they perpetuated , as well as the annual desecration of the house of God Easter after Easter '
Mr . Phillimore then stated his remedy . He proposed that all Dissenters should be exempt from the payment of church rates by the simple process of stating in writing that they were dissenters from the Church of England , and handing that statement to the churchwardens , whose copy of such statement should be legal evidence in support of the exemption . Any person thus affirming bis dissent forfeited all the rights of a member of the Church—he could not call on the clergyman for any ministerial services , and could not vote at
vestries . ( He might , however , send his wife and family to Church . ) He could , however , re-enter the Church with the leave of the ecclesiastical authorities . Respecting the law and judicature he proposed that as at present the churchwardens could make a rate for ordinary repairs , and bread and wine , but that for everything else the consent of the parishioners should be necessary . The jurisdiction of tlie Consistory Court he
would retain , providing that it should hear cases viva voce , make a final decision as to tlie facts , and be subject to an appeal court only as regards law . Mr . Phillimore called his plan " a sacrifice" on the part of the Church , and characterized it in the words of the Liturgy , as " a measure ordered and settled upon the best and surest foundations , whereby peace and ha ppiness , truth and justice , religion and piety , might be established in these realms . "
Sir William Clay followed Mr . Phillimore , with a distinct motion , put by way of amendment" That this House do resolve itself into a committee , to consider whether church rates should not bo abolished , and provision made for tho charges to which sucli rates are at present , applicable—from pew rents , and from tho increased value which inquiries instituted by authority of the Crown have shown may be derived , under better mana oment , from Church lands and property . "
Mr . I lnllimore , in excusing Ins preference of bis own motion , objected to this suggested plan as excluding both Churchmen and Dissenters from tlie rates , and as being merely an abstract resolution . Sir William echoed Mr . Phillimore ' s objections to the present doubtful state of tho law , and instanced some cases of oppression , pointing rut a case in South Shields . There a distress bad been levied on fourteen persons for rates amounting to 5 / . 12 s . "Ad ., and goods were seized of the value of 67 / . 10 s . ; the surplus , after satisfying the claim and tho accumulation of fees consequent on
proceedings , amounted to 01 . Is . The assumption that church rates were property , like tithes , was groundless ; church rate was personal tax , and levied on the land but for convenience nake ; and they were , unlike tithes , incapable of assignment and of affording a beneficial interest to any one . Church rates , in the present , were im absurdity . We bad recognised all the civil rights of Dissenters ; but when we came to church , wo ignored their existence with as lofty a disdain as Laud himself could have done . Experience- had shown that were church rates abolished , tlie churches would still
be maintained . Mr . . Kdwnrd Haines Hinted to the committee of 1851 , on the authority of Mm Kev . Dr . Hook , Mint some church rales hud lxjcn abolished in that parish ; the puriMh church bad boon reliuilt at an expense of . " 10 , 000 / . ; that six new churches had been coiiKceratod ; and ( hut . ' ( 7 new . schools , with accommodation for 10 , 000 children , hud been erected ; the- whole involving an expenditure of . 100 , 000 / . Mr . ltiiinc . H , at ( . lie * mime time , estimated Unit the Dissenters of ICnghind ruined yearly , lor Mm maintenance of the fabrics of their l'Jy'JOO plucos of worship , for the expenses of worship , and Mm salaries of Mieir ministers , not , less than 1 , 117 / 2 ( 10 / .
Hut ti legalized substitute for church rates might be found in tho pew rents ( largely productive in our great towns ) , and in the surplus income of the Church . Ho might refer to cases in whioh bishops of tho Church of England hud not considered oven the largo incomes
allotted to them sufficient , but had retained further sums in their hands from the episcopal revenues . He might refer to the great sums which had been spent on episcopal palaces , and to certain charges for the support of gamekeepers and game-watchers , which sounded rather oddly as a portion of the household expenses of one who claimed to be a successor of the holy apostles ; but be would re ^ t his case on an address presented two
years ago from certain prelates to the Crown , stating , that by better management of the revenues of the Church , half a million a year could be economized . That sum would be adequate to the extinction of church rates . Respecting Mr . Phillimore ' s proposition , Sir William Clay objected that it would render permanent religious divisions , could be evaded by unconscientious persons , and retained the agency of the ecclesiastical courts .
In the debate which followed , tlie opinions of the Dissenting party were represented by an advocacy veryvaried in personnel , but nearly of one tone . Mr . Peto , referring to the liberality of Dissenters in supporting their religion , and the munificence of Hindoos in the same way , made a telling thrust at Church of England bishops : — " It was painful to see charges made in the press against prelates , and made without denial , which , if true , would exclude any merchant in London from the Royal Exchange . ( Cheers . ) Those prelates were members of the Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts , and in newspapers in Calcutta these things were put forward for the purpose of showing that Christianity should not obtain a footing there . " ( Loud cries of " hear , hear . " )
Mr . Collier objected to Mr . Phillimore ' s retention of the ecclesiastical courts in Mr . Phillimore ' s plan ; Mr . Apslet Pellatt declined , on the part of the Dissenters , to accept the partial privileges proposed in the same ; and Mr . Hfme denied that it was any " sacrifice " on tlie part of the Church . Mr . Miall objected that it would " denationalize" the Church , while leaving it endowed ; and entering into the wider question of taxes for the support of religious establishments , showed that the Dissenters found no difficulty in supporting . With the exception of some objections to the provision
regarding pew rents , Sir W . Clay s resolution was supported by this group of members ( Mr . Hume , however , regretting that the resolution did not simply affirm , that church rates should cease , leaving the void to bo supplied by the Ecclesiastical Commissioners ) , and also by that portly Protectionist , Mr . E . Ball , who , although a Dissenter , blundered out some praise of an Established Church , and made u personal proposition towards Christian union , by saying that if they would only alter some things in the Book of Common Prayer , be himself would become a respecting Churchman .
The only " defenders of the faith' in church rates were representatives of the two Universities— Sir Robetct Inglis and Mr . Wigua ' m . Sir Robert expressed a lively horror of both propositions . If passed , the Established Church would come to be nothing more or less , than " a system of religion supported by the voluntary contributions of those who adhered to it . " ( Cheers from the Dissenters . ) I Jut lie would not consent 4 to degrade the Church to the level of
other sects . The opposition to the tax was inspired by " a conscience that resided in the breeches pocket . " As to Mr . Pliilliniore ' s proposition , to exempt dissenters , it was nothing but a bonus upon dissent , and a premium upon nonconformity . Mr . Wiokam used an original argument . Church rates were given to tho Church of England , that in every parish there might > o u church intended for the use of the poor . Tlie debute bad lasted nix hours , when
Sir ( iitoitCK (« iu ; v intervened between then nequally matched parties : leading oil' with Konu : vague assertions of the ; capabilities of the ( , 'bureb to support itself without Church Kates , lie then objected to Mr . Phillunore ' s proposition us drawing a marked line of distinction between Dissenters and Members of the Rstublished Church , who bad hitherto lived in good fellowship . He then " hinted a fault" in Sir W . Clay ' s proposition , respecting pew-rents— it would bear hard
ujion the poor , and " hesitated dislike : " of the whole resolution , as being but . suggestive , and merely abstract . Lord John It . i'K . SKi . ii followed in nearly tlie same strain , first stigmatising the resolutions and the . debate , as not very . satisfactory . " Amid some . small laughter lu ; quoted Sir W . ( 'lay ' s arguments against Mr . I'hillinioni ' s plan , and Mr . IMiilliniore's arguments against Sir William's suggestion ; and accepted the mutual " damage" done .
On Iiii own account , be objected to tlie plan for exempting dissenters . . Although there is many a man who belongs to the Church generally , yet his aftoction to Mm Cluuvh ii not , such bat that , ho may sny , " I can be exempted from Mu > payment of Church-rates , which I find a very inconvenient payment , by merely writing myself u dissenter , und registering myself uk a dituiunte-r , and 1 will tuko Mint course . ' And tho man who remained with Mio Church would perhaps wiy , " Liwfc your I paid 2 /" . ; thi «
Untitled Article
May 28 , 1853 . ] THE LEADER . 507 r — . ¦ ¦ -TT-rr— — — , — '
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Citation
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Leader (1850-1860), May 28, 1853, page 507, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/vm2-ncseproduct1988/page/3/
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