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    not yet been able to communicate it to my colleagues . I therefore thought it better not to enter into any details on tbe subject , but simply to say as much -as would satisfy your lordsLLps -that they were wholly -unacceptable—that _ jihey Would oot be transmitted to Constantinople—and , therefore , 1 have so reason to think that any"fresh negotiations on that subject will be renewed . It is perfectly true , I believe , that Count Orloff , who has been at Vienna a few days on a mission with , regard to the . relations between Austria and Russia , And -was about to go away , has now prolonged his stay What tie object of -that , prolongation is I am really unable to Jsay . With respect to toe other question asked by my noble friend , as to instructions to her Majesty ' s Minister at St .

    Petersburg , I can only tell my noble fnead that as Baron Brunow / only called upon me at half-past six on Saturday evening , and as it was necessary on this , as on all other measures that we hare adopted , or shall adopt , to have a previous ^ communication with tbe Frejauli Government , it has not yet been possible at this moment to sead instructions to our Minister ha Russia ; but we have already had a communication with the French Ambassador on -the subject , and instructions will be gent both to Sir Hamilton Seymour and to General Castelbajac by their respective Governments tomorrow , which will place both those ministers upon the same footing with regard to ~ tbe Court of St . Petersburg , and all diplomatic , relations between the two countries will in the same manner be suspended . "

    Here the subject dropped and their Lordships went to dinner . laisn Membeks : Cobrcptiox . The purity of the Irish members has divided the attention of the House with the Eastern question . Mr . Butt called the attention of the House , on Tuesday , to « n article which appeared in the Times of Monday , oommentingon the foliowi » g « tory : — ** At a dinner , which was given in Toatti , and which was . reported in the Times on the 30 th of January last , I find these Statements were made . The dino&r is headed with the remark that It was mos . t influeniially attended by the clergy off several counties , by his-Grace tne Lord Archbishop

    of TuarrjLT- £ hppe the Attorney-General is not taking notice of the "ii $ e I give him— ' ( a laug h " ) —by tK « honourable member fox Lou | h ( Mr . "L ucas ) , the honourable member for Mayo QJLt . G . H . Moore ) , and others . At this dinner , Dr . Gray , A gentleman who was a candidate for an Irish county at tbe last election , and , having some personal knowledge of him , of good position , stated that at the time when paid guardians were Appointed to administer the affairs © F tho poor-law unions in Ireland , a friend of bis consulted him as to a proposal made to him by a member of the House of Commons , and that that proposal was that lie would obtain for his friend a Government appointment of p aid guardian if he paid him ( the menxber ) one year ' s salary in return for the

    appointment . Now , it so happened that Dr . Gray had ascertained that this was an office which the Government were just about id dispense witfc—( Jaughter)—and , therefore , if the party purchased the office for one year's salary , he would , probably , only enjoy the salary for about five months . { Leuigtik erd Now , a more scandalous charge than this cannot be conceived , and "bear in mind that it was made publicly to an excited audience , and la the presence of members of this House , as an illustration of the mode in which the business is managed in this House , and in which a Minister occasionally obtains a majority . There was another charge , made by a gentleman named Kelly , of whom Itium nothing , but I presume , from the attention with which he was heard , and the rapturous applause which greeted him , that he is a gentleman of some station in the

    country-. He stated that be knew of his own knowledge of a member of this House receiving 500 ? . on condition that he was to obtain the appointment of a stipendiary magistrate , with a promise df l > eing paid 500 Z . more when he got the an ointment ; that , on a particular occasion ^ when the inister was hard pressed on the eve of a division , this appointment was made ; and then that the purchaser of the omca turned round u jon the member who had got him the p lace , and refused to pay him the second 500 ? . ( . Laughter . ^ Now , if the matter Tested here , there is not a member of this Blouse who would notwish the matter to be investigated at once . This is a libel which reflects seriously on the character Of the Irish members , but it is impossible , even if you were so disposed , to lower the character of one-sixth oi the members or this House without also lowering the character of the whole of this assembly . " ( Cheers . )

    Mi . Butt argued , that the article in the Times to which he alluded was a breach of privilege . If thero could be any doubt of this , I think it will he set at rest by a paragraph or two from the Times of yesterday , which I will read : — "We liave satisfied tho theory of the constitution , as far as the Irish division of tlie empire is concerned , with no sparing hand , hut "we have not succeeded in obtaining a body of representation which an Irishman could look upon with satisfaction or an Englishman -without dismay . In the name of constitutional Government , we may be permitted to ask , what does the section of Irish , members represent , beyond the embodied wish of som « hundred needy men to obtain place , salary , ani positionP" No distinction is made . Because it is stated , at tho dinner at Tuam , thftt two Irish members have been found—it is not stated at Avhat

    intervale—to be guilty of this high offence , this journal thinks it right to hold us up to the British public and to tho whole of Europe , without qualification . I confess I felt indignant at reading this accusation , and I felt I should be justified in appealing to the senje of justice of English gentlemen in this House in a matter so serious . Mr . Butt moved that tli < j article bo read . Mr . O'Connkll seconded the motion . The article was read , and then Mr . Butt moved that it be referred to a committee of privileges to examine nad report . iVtrdin , Mr . Joun O'Connkll seconded

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    the motion , expressing a most earnest belief that the allegations would turn out to be mere calumnies Lord John Russell , without a moment ' s hesitation , acceded to the motion ^ and trusted -the investigation Would be pursued to the end . Mere Mr . John Bax / X . struck m with an explanation . He said the responsibility of appointing paid . guardians did not resrt with the Government ; but with . Mr . Twisleton , late chief commissioner of poor-laws ; Mr . Power , the present commissioner , and Mr . John BaJi himself . Now , no one was ever appointed without a public official recommendation ; and no doubt every Appointment could be traced .

    Mr . Lucas made a long speech , fiercely * attacking the Whig * ? aiuJ bringing forward , but without authentication , more accusations . He Itelieved the statements of Dr . Gray and Mr . Kelly were perfectly true . He himself had frequently made " similar accusations in a general way . " " He believed them to be true . He had no doubt whatever that they were true—and , indeed , it was utterly impossible for any honourable gentleman to take part ia the political conversations which were carried on with respect to the management s of public affairs in Ireland , without bearing very frequently -of cases of this kind , mainly an evidenc which it was impossible for any man to disbelieve ( Expret akms of dissent ;) The difficulty ia dealing with cases of this

    sand was simply- that there were -oases mentioned to yon in private as matters of conversation "b y persons well acquainted with the facts * whose evidence coald not be disbelieved , but you were not at liberty to mention their names , and could not break the seal of confidence under which the facts had been . revealed . He ha 4 heard many honourable members relate to him facts of -a similar load , and he thought that it was utterly impossible for any gentleman acquainted with the details of political affairs * o disbelieve that such transactions as these had taken place . " Mr . Lucas said the TimesloaA . made these accusations Before ; and in proof he read an article published In September last , containing a sweeping accusation of venality against tne whole of the Irish members . " When honourable members

    talked about am article in the Times , they wetenofc , Of course , to pry into tne mystery of newspapers—that was « ** ety delicate subject : bat they knew that it ' wasn'tnobody ^ that wrote toe articles complained of , and they- sometimes heard very exalted names mentioned in connexion Wrfh iiondon newspapers . He did not know—perhaps ndbody knew- —whether the article in question might Bait have been written by a Secretary of State , or perhaps , at all events , it might have been written by- a Secretary to a Board . ( Laughter . ' ) At any rate , what was matter of public notoriety was , that one of the proprietors of the Times Was a member of the House—a supporter , and not th » least efficient supporter , of tbe present Government—perfectly cognisant of all the rumours and talk of the Treasury beach , and one

    who did not insult "his fellow-supporters of tbe present Government Tjy making allegations which that Government itself believed to be false . The accusation Dconght against the whole body of Irish members Ire believed in general "to be unfounded . He had never , brmight allegations of so general and sweeping a "character against Irish members He had , of course , never intended to include 'himself in the accusation , or those honourable gentlemen with whom 'he usually Acted . He had brought no such accusation against Irish members upon the side of the Hoose on ¦ vbich he ^ sat His accusations nad been directed against those who , for a long coarse oi years , had been connected in the 'commerce of corruption vith successive Whig Governments—( laughter ) —of which transactions the editor of tbe Times was a very

    proper and suitable witness . " ( ^ Renewed laughter . ) [ Mr . Lucas was warmly egged on by the Opposition . J He criticised the article at great length in illustration of his position that the Whig Government subsisted by Irish corruption . He then brought several new accusations , bnt without giving the name » f his authority—** which he was not at liberty to mention . " The Ministerial benches ironically cheered this , whereupon he eaid—Oh , you think that my refusal to mme throws a doubt on the accuracy of the statements—( cheers)—' and inferred that they did not wish to hear them . This elicited indignant ori « a of " No , no , " which Mr . flLncas , affecting to mistake , treated as a frank admission . After sparring in this way for same time ' , he brought among others this charge . He adverted to something winch fell from the lips of the

    late Mr . Sheil in the interval between the Durham letter , which he had no doubt the noble lord the member for the city of London recollected , and the meeting of Parliament , at which the Ecclesiastical Titles Bill was brought forward . During that interval some of the foiends of Mr . Sheil were very anxious to know his opinion as to how tie Government of the country was to be managed in future if the Whig quarrelled willi the Irish members . The answer of Mr . Sheil , as it had been reported to him—and the authority on which he had it was so good that lie had no hesitation whatever in saying that he believed it—was , " Lord John Russell has calculated e-yery thing minutely—such and Butoh a gentleman connected with the ' I reasury holds the Irish members in the holl ow of his hand . " The gentleman to whom Mr . Sheil too gave this information was rather curious to know what this figurative language meant , and the explanation given

    by Mr . cmiou was , that boforo any great dobate and division in which tho Government , ns Mr . Kelly phrased it , was to be hurd pressed , an Irish member received a note stating that such a place was vacant and awaiting his recommendation to liiivo it filled up , and that the recommendation was not net cd upon till after tho division , or , in other words , until after tuo member had given his vote ia favour of tlio Government , or , if he happened to represent an unmanageable constituency , until alter 1 >« had stayed away . Mr . Shcil added this slutoinenl—of vyiiich it was possible the Government might not bo cognisant—that a certain number of Irish members wcro in tho liublt , whon they obtained these appointments , of tuking thorn down to » j ) eraon whom ho describes m a broker , and soiling them m the wny the House hud heard described in the speech of tbe honourable uud loanieii guutlunaan . fiucJi won vrhul JMr . flheil dchbe-

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    raielv described in Dublin as the rationale of the relation . ** £ ? Tf ^ . T the ^^ Government ndfcwrtate Party of Irish members , and the means by which tbe . What & « verntnentoftleday was tobekeptiiv power . mTlucS saal he had received an answer by telegraph from Dr . GnZ only five minutes before he began speaking , sayine— " I am ready to attend at the bar of the Souse . ' ' Mr . Dtjncombb hoped the committee wo-uia not fk . il to call Mr . Lucas . But if tun . inquiry took place as to these Irbh corruptions , it could not * top > thet « . Only Teoeotly , ia the Court of Chancery , a member of that House , Mr . George Hudson , bad admitted to having secretlj bribed influential persons -with , shares to > the amount of 6300 £ , to obtain their support oa

    railway matters . u The defendant , it appeared ,, had distributed these shares tinder the pledge of secrecy , ana refused to name tbje persons to whom they were given , on the plea ibatit woold be di »> ionourable und improper to do so , hut ofiered to discover ibefr names to tbe Master of the Bolls in private . Of course , the Master of the Bolls refused to have anything to do wit £ So 3 Irty a transaction , l > ut in his judgment , which aformed tbe decision of 6 he chief clerk lie said , 'As to the 63001 ia i"e * pect of tie shares distributed fcy the defendant , cr ttBaer his directipn , to conciliate the interest cf certain p arties in and out of Parliament ,, whose names ihe deetdant had refused to discover , the defendant xaust be held responsible for that sum . Such a dfetributioa was exceedinglj improperand as little credlitsBe . to

    , he parties receiving the shares as to ihe Sefeiidani Was a poor man who took a pot of beer , co , as at ^ ive ^ poo ^ aalf-a-crown ior his vote , to be -placed in comparison in point of crimioality with a man Who iad corrupted - members ^ that House ? They had disfranchised St . ^ Albaiw audSudl t > % ry for much smaller offences than . Wfire < M > Damitt « aly 1 & . Haason . He therefore called upon , the no * bfe Lord to havf tliis charge investigated . They wanted to iaabw who wert tie coiTupted , They knew who £ be « orruptor was . He had ^ 8 ^ T 6 rn to it upon ma oath ; anJ they nvnat « 4 "'' t- thrft Mfe Sadsoii , in having to disgorge so large a sum cfinonej Would be one of the most ill-used iben under the won , unless tie parties who had . been corrupted Indemnified Juxu now fitf tleircdrruptioa , and returned him the . money which he was olilvged to rejwy to the railway conapany . "

    The motion was unanimously agreed to ; and the House > bro } ce up in some excitement immediately . When the . House met for its brief "W « dxfesday i sitting , Mr . ^ oEiSB Mxtmcm appealed , imd continued the df ema of the pre ^ ousi night ; tntt being tare sole speaker . His speech , a ' cfariosfty ^ itself was intended as a ireply to HHr . JDimcombe . " Sir , " began Mr . Hudson , the House listening with a'chill silence , "lam anxious to address « few words to tie house in reference to myself . Last eycuioj ; 1 was tun&rtuuately absent , ' . having to visit Sunderlaad *> n a matter of sqm * interest to the inhabitants— -in jrefereuce to a great public work . I was detained there yeaterday , and I dtd not &e anciently well to come down to the House hub eveniQu

    But had r been aware that a gentlemau ^ -axnember of this fiouse—was going to refer to myself , i » oincpnyeni » nce would have prevented my being here to meet that ^ heiioj » rabl& gentleman . 1 hare always understood that if obsernttions pei > - sonal to a member of this Hoose are made , or-are Lntended to liermadejin this House , it has -b een usual to giveth ^ tt hqnotuy able member notice . But would lirre House ^ beTiisre that tm ^ this occasion I received no notioe- yrfoatmot from tie honourable member ? nor was I awar « that any mention was to be Biade of myseE Of this I ihttk I htfVe . goofi firtrond and reason to cotrjplain . The charge which the TfqnourAblf member Tiafi made has % eeu « ttracte'd 6 t 'rtad 3 rom " ms Times newspaper . I am not tifbouitto m&tt&ttfry xftservations xxKto that paper , but it is unfb » tui » te fer thvtntthat cene-i

    tally in their charges agadnat me they iuew ibtsoded tfareir charges on acts which are either totally untrue . < er which , if xot untrue , have been of a oharaccter toadmit of a very diflter * « n £ construction , and are , in facVactsof whiohl ahaUtqtiie last day of my life be proud . I should not have complained if ihe honourable member , along with the charge whiou he < reaa from the 3 > nper , had thought it right in fah-nessor in common ntmesty to have read along with that a letter from toy joEdtor , which was addressed to the Timts , reriudiating in Hie most 4 igtincfc terms the charge which they « avem&d * , ' and quoting the affidavit made ly myself in thetttrit whioh has been the cofortunate Bubjedt of discussion . I never , on nay honour , made , nor intended to make , either privately or

    pu » iiciy , any cnarge against any memoer ot tnis tlouse . ic is . utterly inipossible , during my long intercourse with this House and wrth society , for any gentleman , be tie whom h » may or where he may , to change me with having said , directly or indirectly , that I ever tampered with any member of this House , directly or indirectly . Therefore , I say the charge is ' as false and malicious as it is unjust and untrue . The honourable member is not content with reifcerniiog that charge—he talks of " disgorging . " Ho says thatI am called upon to disgorge a largo sum df money . I admiS that by the docision of the tribunal to whioh he ban roferrea I am so called upon . But neither that tribmiAl nor any other tribunals will venture to say that what I aitLcalled npoU to discorco , I ever , to a largo extent , received . It is quit *

    true that by a legal construction 1 am placed in that unfor * - rfH ^ JPtifr . toaate position . Against that position , however , I believ * I yW ^ OioHSjj have a good right of appeal . But I say ngnia , that HOtf M ^ SaKplf admitted , oven by my opponents , that a large sum . of WMKL ^* ^^ ^ which I amolligod to refund to that company nerw r 8 saE | B | gg ^ S »|!^ nor could by possibility reach , my hands . Therefore , I » rW » wiS my position lias been one of misfortune ; I have bWn'nto rjCHjjp ^^^^^^ w right , but legally wrong . But I have no objection , flTO ' *^ % " % [ fa invito my accusers , if Dior think right , to take 'Jtio fronrapwi ^ irjl «^*»«> f , M i cradle and follow mo to this im , and if theyefUn ffiKAWi ^ uVJ m « any cJmrre of dishonourablo conduct , or of mytatk'trT ^ - •< , ' . ' - ¦ fi -wiifoh would disentitle me to the confidence df my fri « nirMl 'VV . " ; ¦ ^ -will bid adioa to this House and to my public position . HOT- ' f . . *¦*¦ . ¦ * until I « m convinoed that I have done anytliirrg not only ¦ •*• -. ' - legally but morally wrong , I shall abide , amidBt the viteperations cf the press , or df twiy other individ « al who tmy

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    February 11 , 1854 ] THE LEADER . iS 3

• Citation
  • Leader (1850-1860), Feb. 11, 1854, page 123, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/l/issues/vm2-ncseproduct2025/page/3/