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3tmpnial 3J5arltam*ut
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ANNIVEESABY DINNER OF THE -v -.
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
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COBSSTT CLUB , i On Monday evening last , fire anniversary dinner to jg&rate the birthday of the Isfce William Cobbett , ¦ &P . for Ofcflwm , took place at the Crown and Anchor fsvern , Strand ; John Fielden , Esq ., M . P ., the late jti . Cobbett ' s friend and colleague ; in the chair . At = j jiio'doci , between seventy and eighty gentlemen sat to dinner . The Chairman vu supported by the Rev . I
jt . Wade on his right , by Mr . "Wilkinson , ( the foreman d { he celebrated Jury that tried Mr . Cobbett for a jeditioas libel , when it waa asserted that he recsmjaended the people to destroy agricultural produce , ) on M » left ; and Binong the company -we noticed Mr . Wells , fkd £ onimon Conntiiman , Mr . Beck , of the Dr . Johnson , Ttf&B- On the last anniversary of this dub , Mr . Frost >~ V »< m £ ~ of the supporters of the Chairman , and throughout the company but one feeling prevailed , which partook Jess of regret that he' -was absent on this occasion , ftvn > of sympathy for his melancholy and tamentable
The Ber Dr . Wade baring said " the grace after meat , " the Hon . Chairman rose to propose " The memory of William Cobbett" We hare met , isaid Mr . FieJden , " to do honour to a man -whom we all ^ teemed ; and the sole object of ¦ whose life was to ascertain the staietif the people among whom he lived , in order that he might apply his powerful mind to the jagcestion of a remedy for the grievances nnder ¦ which gjey laboured . "What -was the present state of the country ? Why , eTen Whig , Tory , and Radical admitted that it "was one of unexampled distress and wretchedness ¦ , but this -was only -what their departed tri « id Mid -we should arrive at If thae -was a elass to which be had a preference over another , it was that
class thai cot its living from the land ; for it is on ] y by labour , applied to agricultural pursuits , that all the ; goods ef life spring ; the other pursuits being merely , auxiliaries or helps , to carry out the benefits that may . arise from the cultivation of the land . What , then . ¦ is the condition of those labourers "who have succeeded i their father's , generation after generation ? Why , ' doomed to live ^ J ^ ttn potatoes and salt . > "ow , there ' . must be a c&ase for this state of things , and that cause j their departed friend had years ago pointed out But j . jo into other branches : loot at the hand-loom weavers ; five power-loom weavers , finding that they themselves were fast sinking into the condition of the hand-loom rsSPUggH * &&M * gK ^ ebgwgMjftrfggpg the ak-^ tasdi « rf theHW » ef r nmjati Wlftlrf" * tE ^ B . , irha , on tW ^ pM ^ iKi , ^ ^• a » et by opposition fromUMH ^^ Mfcfiwflrtt . »» c ing , however , that they shall soon be in » BmDac predicament themselves , they are now asking "whetber ] f the commission on hand-loom 'weaving has made its ; report ; their object in this is ¦ well knows fe > He , to f get a repeal of the Corn Laws ; they ate perfcaf * Bot to I be blamed for that ; but it only shows tbere 'Ui some j one before them , who knew ¦ well how'iliiijHi would ! turn out , for it was precisely such a state "rfSfeings as their departed friend had pronounced woBfciSs&e . Did
not Mr . Cobbett , years Ego , assert , that Wg | j »« noagh I powers of fabrication and creation » Did J ^ ^ Si deafly I show that all that was required was t 8 tjfru # 8 ftf' tilstribatioii ? Why , in maiiufaetnreB "Sre Ctjjp ' TUfW £ et four crops -vrhere , twenty - jwia ' . , » e could only get one ; hot •*« < VBBot -get A quadruple power of dirtrflmttm 4 ^ jJ * £ - evtsi if the agriculturist could prodaOB ImJP dtOBtifim the land , where he formerly rTrniTMttOftti uPuMuuM the producer be better off , for ^ l ^ ffijSjM fffr legislature are too grasping to tlh I' IJjOBSBTf " t ' the first partaker of the fruits . J&mtMSmlSfigm on the land , and the labourer oa Hpj 3 | rSSBJMBffil to take what they wanted , t ^ ' ^ wRKE fint , neither they who laboag , . ^ JBlBdBBJgBgl would hare cause to complain ; ] K ^^ BHs 9 H ^ k state of things is enormous tax > & £ 9 ^ Hj ^ HS 9 must be removed , and the JBfitfwCll ^^^ SHflHSl must be changed , before Boeiefy ofi ^^^^^^ Bpfln of any rational being . TJm # M ** KHPP ^^ Con ? 1 and Currency , " and whenever there has been any distress in the country those two subjects has always been ] considered as the £ eneratr ** 4 MMMtott « MMHi ^ M ^
Corn Laws are unjust in pzh ^ tjSB ^ tfP /^ ' abolished ; but the Corn Laws mnsV continue , or ' al worse state of things will ensue , unless taxation and i all other national burdens are proportionately reduced , j If it be gaid that the toes must be reduced , and the < Com Law 3 repealed , then ( said Mx . | M | & 4 ami with you ; but look now , at UusA ^^^^ HHfeiB the labourers only get sis i 1 >^ W JuMM ^ BB labour , iCries of " Shame . '" " Toc $ a $ ^^ KEpM 55 M it was too bad , but if the Com l 0 m % ^ St tm § m SF without a corresponding rednctiaa ^> £ ^ hS |^ E 5 | i working classes of Devonshire , sad « ti | pi ^ pHHMfc : counties , would be reduoed to the i iinflllikafglMTlA *
labourer , "who only got sevenpence or ( U | p |^ £ Sotwithstasdkig bis conviction thai ttti tmU&mgt ' - things would ensue from a repeal of tbe riaCjfl Jt lm would vote for their repeal , and would net dhMDsrage the people from endeavouring to remove the ^ lllraatt ;; though he would never tell them it was his opinion **** they would be better oSl It was doubtless in tbe recollection of many then present , that , on a I » te occasion , he made a motion in tbe House of Commons , to take off Oa taxes on salt , sugar , tea , and a number of other necMsaries of life , amounting wholly to seventeen millions of taxation ; and to make up the deficiency by jf- a graduated property tax . Now , how many did they - " * ¦ aappose Mtedwfth him on that occasion ? Why , . KTekten . Xgtabtt used to lament tbe fottr of *!«¦
$ - Trhom he was endeavouring to benefit and instruct ; but j " whilst he never nattered them when wrong , so he wa& I tlways ready to lend them a helping hand to assist ' them in their efforts ; and he ( Mr . F . i believed that j many who affected to despise him when living , would at kngth be obliged to come to his shop ; and thus it is j that opinions which at one time are held to be erroneous , j Subsequently eomeinto repute- Look , now , whetherMr . Oobb = tt ' s words are not in actual fulfilment at this very day ; at home , we have nothing but divisions among us , acd abroad we are openly despised . He . like Mr . I Cobbrtt , wus for "Cniversi ! Suffrage , Annual Parlia- ¦ meets , and Vote by Ballot ; but the parties who signed 1 tie late petitions for these objects had weakened them- i ielvfc 3 by committing imprudences , and fixing days , on 1 Thkit , if certain things were not granted , certain other j things , then nameless , were to be done ; advising to j arm . and similar acts , while they declared it was the last petition ; but Mr . Cobbett " had always said , you j should never abandon your right of petitioning ; and if ; the pirties who had signed the great National Petition ! tad not adopted tlie imprudent course which their j leader * had recommended—if , instead of that , they had j poured in one million two hundred and fifty thousand j single petitions , each written on a single sheet of paper , j see h ' j -w strong they would have been . Strong : they would have been all powerful ; whereas , now , they had '
to petition for mercy to their leaders , and were altogether disjointed , and their cause retarded for an i inconceivably long period . If the people would take ; half the trouble to send petitions in the manner he had described , thai they do to attend meetings , * c , they : - Would be far more successful The way to uphold j your friends in the House of Commons is to give them j petitions , decently worded ; for if a member presents a \ petition containing allegations that aTe disrespectful , it '< damages the member who presents it lLoud cries of hear , hear , hear . , Such was always the advice of of their lamented friend , to do honour to whose memory they had that day assembled . Snch wag his own : humble advice -, and knowing how Mr . Cobbett laboured I for the working classes , and endeavoured to enlighten tke public at large upon the various eviis of their com-Eoa _ coattry , he would propose "The memory of Vf " iiiiam Cobbett" The toast was drunk in solemn sHenee , with the deepest demonstration of respect
Mr . Cleave , in rising to propose the next toast , exi pressed his sorrow tLa : i : had not fallen into abler hands ; as , from his own abilities , and the state of his health , he was inadequate to do justice to it ; and hoped that they , as honest Cobbettites , would respond tt > 'is toass , nowitcstanding the inefficiency of its proposer to do it justice . He would real it as it dot ! Eiood : — ¦• The honest Jury , who stood between Mr . Cobber : and his dastardly oppressors , and -who rescued him from that doom which the cruel and perfidious Whigs bad intended for him . " He saw that some one had been altering it with pencil , and would therefore trouble them by reading it as it was originally written ; —' . a voice at the cross table cried " 5 * o , don't ; " he would tell that person who cried * ' >' o , don't , " that
ne himself was a very tender man upon some points ; but having been a little in the clutches of these despicable Whigs , he thought the original word the best ; ¦— Mr . Cleave then read the toast again , altering the word ' cruel' to ' bloody' and perfidious WhigB , the last reading was adopted by overwhelming applause-, Why , they should recollect that this was no ; mere invective ; for u to the perfidity of the Whigs , they would never leave off being perfidious until the people acquired strength to rescue themselves ; and ai to the " bloody" part of it , he would leave it to the new Home Secretary , the >* oble Marquis of the silver fork tribe , to answer that by his correspondence with the new pled ged knight of Newport about the gallows ^ i th e hivnrman for poor John Frost and his
companions , even before the decision of tha Judges " as known . The circumstances connected with the trial of William Cobbett must be fresh in the minds of * U present ; and he was happy to see the foreman of that Jury and its representative , James Wilkinson , Present on this occasion . ; Loud and long continued « eenng . i When we look at that trial , and compare it wah die recent trials in W ales , we must deplore the fete of the middle classes ; an intelligent friend , who * e « these , solemnly declared that there was not a day * ° r an hour that some of the jury were not asleep ;' tod he heard language from some of them that , considering they were going to be called upon to pronounce lives and of
* ft ^ liberties their fellow-beings , was ^ sL ' yrevoltiEg to any well-constituted mind . There is £ * ch . to be done by those moving around us , and who fcsve the privilege of sitting in the Jury-box , by dis-*» ainating the principles which William Cobbett taught . « e hoped they were not met there for the mere sake of j * ting and drinking and toasting certain principles ; tot to use all the means in their power to disseminate ""> se princi ples . Their friend the Chairman , whom all * e » pect £ d as the honest colleague of William Cobbett , ^ d la mented the imprudences committed by the wvwatei of rniver ? al Suffrage , in arming and advis-> &g to arm , and not in perssvering in the petitions .
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Xow , no persons would accuse him ( Mr . C . ) of being par tial to the Chartists * vices ; but was there ever such a petition Bent into the House of Commons as the National Petition ? Their friend had also spoken of individual petitioning ; but what was the fact in 1817 ? Why that the members who presented such petitions got so laughed at by the House that they refused to present any more ; it was lamented by Mr . Fieiden that the people should have abandoned their right of petitioning , at the same time that he deprecated the combining of prayers in the same petition for the release of Frost and the concession of their rights . ( Interruptioiu They have been advised to . petition singly , and to petition collectively ; but why are Frost and his companions banished ? Why did
the sad event occur which led to that banishment ? "tt hy ? because the House of Commons have turned a deaf ear to the people ' s complaints , and have done eventhing that could be devised to keep them in degradation and then punish them for acts to which their lone course of misrule had driven them . All the sins of the Ministry and the people lie at the door of the Hou = e of Commons—they it is who aie the hw-breakers as well as the law makers ; and if there be a hereafter , as he hoped , they , the House of Commons , would surely ret their reward there , if thty failed to obtain it here . He had b ? en asked , on coming into the room , if Mr O'Connell or Mr . Wakley were in attendance ' 'rLaughter . i He replied , that they ought to be here as well . as some other M . P . ' s-. but the Hon . and Learned
Member for all Ireland , and the Hon . Coroner were so well pleased with the company they had lately got into that they would not wish to leave it f « all the w * tkL As to ¦ Mr . Wakley , bowerer , he was to take the chair a ^ another place thai Bight /' to endantojt ^ found ' a « H » ball for the metropolis-, a * idb&Mh ^ Z wanted ; sod tbe honw in ^ wkich titty now werTwal a proof of it ; for if the CobbettiUs were to call a meeting , without eatin ; and drinking , they could not have the use of that house , wbich contained one of the most -spacious rooms in the metropolis . He could , however assure his friends who had inquired about the Members of the House of Commons , that there were men literally without coats to their backs , for they could only raise sleeved waistcoats
H ! , who had watched and had prepared even a learned detail of the sins of omission as well as of commission of some of these gentlemen and they would shortly be astounded at the catalogue that wonld be presented . He had formerly picked up from Mr . Wakley some curious phrenological information , and which be had latterly applied to his instructor , and he could not help thinking that his head WM getting better . He could not partake of ibe feeling of their chairman , that the present destitution of-the working classes would be amended by petJtioalug ; he had more hopes from their old ally , the d 4 J —» a ally that , sooner or later , will settle that and * J 22 ^* Ji *» Questions ; for he stands in his awful JlMpH , Kidy to crush the timid and corrupt legislators ijfl&jMlld rather trust any Government , no matter TBB £ |*^ ip *» . than concede the just rights of the work-WgMM . There was the Poor Law , too , which the ^¦ MbxhWfS , In general , had availed themselves of to PwMgBir _ . f » orer brethren . ( A gentleman— No , no . ) plMftftSaJ ^ vhjr , « you were in Cirencester workhouse , ^• ere five ounces of bacon are considered sufneiaat animal food for a whole week , you would alter your opinion ; and that , be it remembered , U the general ? # *•••«*•* thrttiwPoor Law is fullblown ! " Ifth *
tSffM ! - £ ¦ hitleman was there , upon the skilly and hog' 8 wash , T&stead of his toast , and ham , and eggs , for breakfast ' he would tell a different tale . Well , what did we get by petitioning on that infamous law ? Just nothing . Not so much as had been got by a course he had t ? 0 lfffP d in this town of Cirencester , of which he had m ma ; he had caused 350 of the dietary tables to be jJBPJgft Tery coaspicueusly , and postid in that town , 9 | RHi Guardians were so ashamed of their occupation Q | £ 'tfay sent their myrmidons in the night to pull j ippfftlown ; but his friends in the town had a reserve Jt ^ 2 ~'' * ' an < 3 > ^ ding that the paste was not strong aDbofh , they glued up the remainder , where they stand
. * » w this day , to the shame of the Three Devil Kings and their myrmidons . ( Loud Cheera . ) He would tell them of a little thing that has sprung np in the sister-country —& little thing that even Dan has had no hand in , for tbe RIM won't flow in from that ( loud cheers ); he had in his possession a letter , from a respectable merchant in Dublin , stating that the brewhouses are all j shutting up , and that the people are beginning to eat j more bread and less potatoes , now that the brewersand distillers draw Ies 3 revenue from them for intoxicating drinks ; and he thought it better that Paddy should be a teetotaller all out , than that he should bs the victim of slavery and whisky . The introduction of this recalled to his mind that he had been for years pressing mpaa the late Mb . Cobbett to go to Iretadr bfrww trim Dotn Deiure
! ! ! ana-aiter that memorable visit ; and could he have lived to witness the tidings that that letter conveyed he would have danced with joy , for in addition to the letters he had written to his servant Marshall , which had been published , he had prepared copious notes for another publication of the scenes and miseries he had witnessed , bnt had destroyed them , purposely because they were too harrowing for any people to be enduring . In conclusion , he would only add , that if the people bad not been besotted thev
wouid have long since been installed in their rights ; and , with their and his thauks to the Jury , and especially to Mr . Wilkinson , who had tried Mi . Cobbett for the promulgation of those principles in which he had lived and died , he begged to propose the toast which he had already read . The toast was received with much applause , all the company standing . Mr . Wilkinson , in returning thanks , observed that Voltaire had ieinarked that some men made long speeches , and others made deep ones ; so tbat if you did not get ft one way you bad it another : his would not be a deep , and he was sure it would not be a long speech . He had read the libel for which he was afterwards called upon to Jry Mr . Cubbett , and was
therefore better qualified to judge of it ; it was providential he was one of them , for if all the others had been contrary , he would conscientiously have died in elory , and thought he should have gone to heaven . He came " from that simple place , Yorkshire , where he had never mixed in politics ; and when they retired to consider of their ¦ rerdict , there were six for acquittal , and six against One or the latter asked him to consent to a verdict of guilty , and recommend Mr . Cobbett to merey ; he answered , hadn't we better be merciful ourselves : finding they were not likely to agree , the Judge ultimately discharged them . He was a strong advocate of the value of trial by jury ; and as a liveryman , and one of those who elected the sheriffs to do the Queen ' s work , he was astonished that a tyrant mijority of that House should have incarcerated them for obeying the law . He therefore attended the
Common Hall , and though he had not spoken to a single person on the subject , he found there were at least one hundred to one in his favour for an address to the Queen , praying her to dismiss the House of Commons for their conduct to the sheriffs . The Lord Mayor refused to put the amendment he proposed , as not being in the requisition ; upon which he applied for and obtained another Hall , and out of 200 liverymen he waited upon to sign tlie requisition , only three were against it . T . Lat would Slow -whether the feeling of the public was for or against the " privilege gentry . " This principle it was—the principle that whether a king or a tyrant House ch'xise to oppress a fellow subject , he would -oppose it—that actuated him in Mr . Cobbett ' s case , and that spirit-has eyer made , and will ever make him continue to value the great bulwark of our freedom , trial by Jury . Mr . W . resumed his seat amid mucb cherrin z-
Mr . Fielden , in reply to an observation that had fallen from Mr . Cleave , observed , that he must have been misnnderstood ; for what he stated was , that if the people-had not held out the threat , that on a certain day they would hold simultaneous meetings , and do certain things , they would now be strons , instead of being weak and discomfited . The Bev . Dr . Wade rose to propose the next toast , which was " The labouring part of the peopla" He professed himself to be a Chartist , and something more ; for the Chartists on . y claimed the right of every man who was of the age of twenty-one , and untainted by crime , to have a voice in the election of Legislators , while the Cobbett Club maintained the right of every person who was capable of bearing arms for the defence of his country ; and as to the other point , be held that when a man had suffered such punishment as the l 3 ws of his country awarded , he was placed in
precisely the same position , with regard to his rights , as he was previously ; true , people might associate with him , or not , as they thought proper , but tbat ought not to operate to deprive him of his civil rights . Mr . Cobbett had left a legacy to labourers ; and a noble legacy it was . He had also left a legacy to parsons , and he ; Dr . W . j , as a parson , was very grateful to him for bis legacy to labourers . He had now to touch upon tenderer ground . Last year , on this occasion , John Frost and he had sat side by side ; would to God he were here now ; but if he were not , he was sure his spirit was . It was because the poor had not their rights that we have the Poor Law , which was a murderous substitute for emigration ; and he should not be surprised if the march of Somerset House economy would not induce the erection of steam engines in the Poor-Law Baitiles , for the purpose of grinding the bones of the deceased poor to manure the lands of the
aristocracy . Let any one look at the reason given the other day by a professedly Christian House of Commons , against the abolition of the punishment of death ; which was , that it would embarrass the Judges , and yet at tbe very same time they were imprisoning and harrassing men for obeying the laws , and obeying the legal orders of those Judges . With all his respect for
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their Hon . Chairman , and no man he respected more highly , he would assert , that he wa » no more use in such a House than a grain of salt in a butt of hog-wash . ( Loud laughter and cheering . ) He begged to propose the following teast : — " The Labouring Part of the People . May they speedily regain the power of being represented in Parliament , and thus ensure the restoration of the Poor Law of Elizabeth , or of their original share of the Church property ; and , also , of that best park of their ancient Saxon Constitution , the right of self-government in all localities . " Mr . Wells , ( the Common Councilman ) in a speech which elicited much applause , proposed the next toast" Our faithfnl ally , the debt . —She is not to be put downbyspies : by Metropolitan , nor RvuaXgens-d ' armerie : by standing armies , nor yeomanry cavalry : by Poorlaw bastiles and skil'y : nor , even by the new-fangled privilege of Parliament "
Mr . Rogers , in proposing the " Martyrs for Universal Suffrage , " observed that many of the Convention agreed with Dr . Wade and their Hon . Chairman , that petitioning was the only mode of demonstration that should be made ; . but while this was their view , and perhaps the wisest view , let them not be Sectarians , nor condemn those who were more active in their endeavours ; for all men are not philosophers , and they should make allowances for those who could not wait so long and so patiently as themselves . It was all very well to « ay it will be more prudent to adopt this or that coarse , bnt what was to be said to those whose state of suffering was such that they could not ¦ w ait firoqn -week to w » ek ? iLoud « nee « iL ) : Sftr a ** 1
let as e » y one wjnd * lT "" f WifciTr '"'!' J * i g MKpMi t " good lovers iirjln ' ii' i \ 7 unMfFml $ &aiCwa . JjHliiu liters , by waiting to receir « Se first aggressive Stroke of ^ yresaion . Would not their indignation be equally bigh' if a body of police wef £ . marched in with drawn "swords aud cutlasses , as thej £ « rero at the other end of the town ? Let them not , therefore , take credit for their own forbearance , but endeavour to get those who have been more ardent than themselves out of their difficulties . If we wanted another illustration of the value of petitioning , let us take the case of my friend John Frost ; ( at the mention of the name , rather emphatically , by Mr . Rogers , the company rose , as one man , and a cheer , lonjj and loud , proclaimed that name still dear in the minds of his compatriots : ) yes , I say in #
friend John Frost ; if ever there was a man who was full of the milk of human kindness , it was John Frost ; and he would not believe , whatever object he had in view , that it was other than the good of bis country he had at heart . Well , on the Sunday , he heard that it was fully determined to put the sentence of death into execution ; on Monday morning be ( Mr . R . ) put an advertisement , announcing petitions , in the Chronicle , and between Monday and Thursday , those petitions were signed by more than two hundred thousand persons . Those petitions were as effective in preventing the sentence of death being carried inta execution as if a train of artillery were drawn up round tbe Parliament house . He concluded by proposing tbe toast :
" The Martyrs for Universal Suffrage , be they abroad or at home—be they on the sea or on the land—be they in the dnngeen , or on the tenter books of bail for trial —may success and prosperity be the speedy result of their sufferings , and the everlasting gratitude of an admiring people be the reward of these pioneers in the cause of British freedom . " Tbe Chairman , in putting it to the meeting , observed that he could not agree with the sentiments expressed relative to the individuals who had been concerned in » scheme which had been concocted foolishly and ended calamitously .
Mr . Moore made some very apposite remarks in reply to the Chairman , in the course of which he observed that while it was known tbat no blood -was shed but on the side of the people ; no blood at aQ would have been shed bat for the attack of the military ; their enemies were known to be sanguinary , while Frost and his companions were universally spoken of as mild and peaceable . He hoped and trusted , however , that as their chairman believed so much virtue existed in petitioning that the House of Commons would be overwhelmed with petitions for the recal of Frost and his companions .
The next toast was " The Press ; may it become honest and free ; " after which the health of the Chairman was drunk , and that gentleman having acknowledged the compliment , the company Beparated .
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H 01 T 8 E OP L 9 fW ) S . —TiH * far * Jfa «* lt . CASE OF FROST AND OTHERS . Lord TEYNHAM said he wished to make a few observations with respect to what had fallen from tbe Noble Marquis the Home Secretary last evening , respecting the petiton he had presented from the town of Newport . With regard to the population of that place , it was not as the Noble Marquis had stated , 12 , 000 , but 7 , 062 . With regard to the petition , it contained the names of five of the present Town Councillors of Newpor t , and of six who had served that office and had gone out in rotation . Edward Frost , the uncle of John Frost , was a Town Councillor , and bad resided
his whole life at Newport , and had retired from business with an unimpeachable character , and though it it was true he was apprehended on suspicion of being concerned in the riots , all that was proved against him was that he had looked out of a window , and the advisers of the Crown had not thought proper to prefer an indictment against him . He ( Lord T . i understood it was intended to call a public meeting of the inhabitants during the Easter week in order to give every person an opportunity of expressing his opinion on the subject . He was sure that if there were the least chance of mercy being extended to these unhappy individuals , their Lordships would be the last persons to make any opposition to it .
The Marquis of NORMAN BY said he was sure their Lordships wonld think it quite unnecessary for him to add anything to what he said last night The Noble L » rd must , he thought , be aware the petition did not in any respect merit the character which he had given of it It never could be considered as representing the opinions of the respectable inhabitants of Newport .
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HOUSE OF COMMONS . —Tuesday , March 10 . Mr . LEADER presented petitions , praying for a free pardon for Frost and his fellow-convicts , from Bath , Brighton , Glasgow , St . Leonard's , Shoreditch ; St . John ' s , Westminster ; Finsbury , and other places . Also a petition from Frost himself , and one from the Dorchester labourers , who stated from their own experience that transportation was worse than death , and tha ; if sentenced to die would regret the commutation of the sentence to transportation .
ADDRESS TO THE QUEEN FOR A FREE PARDON FOR FROST , WILLIAMS AND JONES . Mr . LEADER rose to move an address to the Queen for a free pardon to Frost , Jones , and Williams , and said , in the present state of the house he would make hi 3 statement as brief as possible . He did not appeal to the house on behalf of the Monmouth prisoners on account ^ " any sympathy ke felt for the manner in which * ftey had been treated , nor because he did not conceive that the offence of which they had been guilty was of a moat serious character . He did not appeal to them on the merits of the case , or because he thought their punishment was undeserved . The reason why he brought that question
forward was because he conceived the law had been strained against the prisoners ; and because ninetenths of the people of England were-of opinion that the law was strained against the prisoners , and thought that the law of the land was , that where a doubt at all existed in criminal casos the prisoners ought to receive the benefit of that doubt , and that it should be interpreted in favour of the accused . That there was a very strong feeling in the country on this subject was indisputable ; that a greater interest was felt about it than many previous matters of excitement might be proved by the fact that there were so many petitions presented on behalf of the convicts . Including the petitions which he had that night presented , the total number then
furnished had been about 100 , and the number of signatures appended to them had been over 120 , 060 ( hear ) . A great many of these petitions , nearly half of them at least , had been only signed on behalf of large meetings , such as that at Glasgow and other towns , by the chairman of the meeting . The strong feeling , indeed , might not exist amongst the higher or even the middling classes , but it undoubtedly aid amoDgst the working and labouring population . Their petitions conatmned the crime of the convicts , but sought a pardon for them because they believed the law had been strained against them , and that justice ,
according to the constitutional law of the country , had not been administered . He was not going to argue the case as a lawyer , but he could apply the principles of common sense to the question , and that House could do the same . The point of view in which he would ask them to consider the present case was , that the law of this land should be strictly administered . It was a part of the law of Britain that , in cases similar to the one then alluded to , copies of the indictment and lists of the witnesses should be furnished at a certain and the same time to the prisoners . In this case , however , Buch had not been done . The copy of the indictment had , indeed ,
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been furnished at one time , and the list of the witnesses at another . . This had been objected to . But he understood the Attorney-General bad treated that objection in a light manner , aud seented to think it of a trivial nature . In oases of high , treason he understood the law to have been passed « kiefly to protect the subject from the arbitrary conduct of GrttTernments , and therefore should be administered strictly , and have all its points adhered to . It whould be interpreted literally and fairly , otherwise the whole fabric of the law might be frittered away . A deviation from what it required in the smallest degree should not be allowed . Thus it was in the laws which protected the revenue , and it should be more especially so in cases of high treason . ( Hear . hear . *
It was not denied that the list of the witnesses and the copy of the indictment had . been furnished the prisoners at different times ; and an objection having been taken on those grounds , the Judges had allowed that objection to bo valid . Under theso circumstances , the prisoners had not been tried at the proper time , aud were , of course , consequently illegally convicted . They had been tried ten days before the time at which they ought . Bat it had been said this objection was a trivial one , and that , if the trial had taken place ten diys later , they would likewise have been convicted . Now he did say that it was very material often , that question of time . It might often have been of the greatest cousequence to nave a trial postponed . A be in state
oountry might a of excitement on the 10 th of a month , and be in ft different way on the 20 th . There were , many ways in which a prisoner might {» » J ^^ % J ^» Pjfinnig bfcifial . He was infonSoa ^^^^^^^^ I ^^^^ Ti inaqMa mmimtffi&wtfy Mfctttfa Judges overruled the objectwn . bat reserr ^ lhe point for the deei « sum of the other Judges . When the oasethad como before the fifteen Judges , it appeared th » t nine of the number were of opinion that the objection was a valid one , and six thought that it was not taken in time . Of the former number had boen those who had tried the case . He was told , that the prisoners might have insisted ou haj ^ g the matter decided by the Judges named in the CfttaniaBion—that the latter were not bound to take Oft opinion of their brother Judges on the matter ; aftfthat , in fact , the decision thus pronounced by th * others on that case Was
exira-juaiciai . xne pfwoners , it seemed , had been themselves strongly impressed with the notion that they would not have been in a worso poaitiou if the case had been reserved and brought before the Judges than they would otherwise have been . Hundreds of thonsandB « people in the oountry were of opinion that the law had been strained againBt the prisoners , and that they had been thus severely puniBhed on account of the greatness of their guilt , and not because there had been a true and strict interpretation of the law . What could be more mischievous than such , an idea getting abroad amongst the working classes ' t It Would completely destroy any feelmg of respect for the laws which they might entertain . They would have no confidence
in them , if they were not literally and strictly interpreted . It had been said that if those convicts were pardoned it would add to the violence and turbulent feeling and aotipg in which they had been partaken . So far froat . that being the case he was strongly of opinion , thatttothingcouldmoreeffectually put a step to that violence and the awakening of a better and more subordinate spirit than the pardoning of these men . He had heard , however , that the uorernment had actually determined upon hanging thow men , and thai it was only upon consideration of the poii ^ oywfc ^ jsed in their favour that they had determinetfupflp jcommuting the sentence of death to transportatkni . Now , if that was good for anything , the doubt ttojiy entertained should be given in favour of the prisoners . From what he had hflar . l of
on a committee on tJw ^ ubject transportation , and from all the details of exuelty and suffering , ho should almost come to the collusion that death was the less severe punishment , of the two . He might be told that the House of Commons was not the place te introduce that subject , to go on with sueh a discussion , beoause it was apt a judicial tribunal ; but he Would ask vas they b « d the power of passing an address to the crown upon different matters , as well as their other functions , inhere should an aggrieved person go to look for redress if not to themt The prisoners or convicts alluded to had no other place to go but to them . He believed , indeed , that if the Government had takes a milder or a moro medium course on the present matter , they would have eertainly acted with more clemency » nd _ mercy toward * the prisoners , ana would
unwfewoir n * ssr& 9 * tmhm *« zmirdd h *« w $ pl « ued fcU ofcwBerof tb » community . - If GHJVeraiaent had said to these men " you are in our . power , and you are liable to be transported or executed ; if we permit you to leave this country , will you promise never to return to it again V' That would have answered all tho ends of justice ; and as the abaenceof these individuals appeared to be what was desired even by those who were not in favour of a free pardon , that might have been secured in the way he had mentioned . He had wished to bring the present matter before the House at an earlier period of the sessiou , and did not deny but that he might ou some occasions have forced it on ; perhaps , indeed , contrary to the rules of the House , but some casualty had interfered to prevent him two occasions he had
. On one or been requested by one of the legal advisers of the prisoners not to brmg the matter forward pendiug a negotiation between the friends of the prisoner and the Government . Under the impression that he had acted in a manner best calculated to serve the prisoners , and had used all the exertion in his power for them and with the best discretion he possessed , he concluded by moving " That an address should be presented to her Majesty , praying her to grant a free pardon to Frost , Williams , and Jones . " Mr . HUME said , in rising to second the motion of the Hon . Member who had just sat down , he did so , not on the merits of the case—for he could not but think the offence of which these men were guilty of most
was a aggravated character , was detrimental in every point of view to the condition of the country and productive of the juost lamentable results—but it was on the grounds which had been stated by the Hon . Member , that he considered the House ought to permit the present motion to pass . If Frost and his associates were entitled to any pardon at all , they were entitled to a free pardon , and that was the opinion on this subject entertained , perhaps , by millions . This was the first case on record in which reference had ever been made , in a matter involving high treason , to the decision of the fifteen Judges ; moreover , two out of three Judges who tried the prisouers had expressed themselves in favour of the objection taken by their legal advisers ; nor could he conceive how in the situation in which the Secretary of State was placed , this circumstance
could lead him to come to any other conclusion than that it was a virtual acquittal . He , therefore , begged to second the motion of his Hon . Friend , in which be trusted the Government would see the propriety of acquiescing . Mr . FOX MAULE was exceedingly sorry to find himself under the necessity of addressing the house on the motion of the Hon . Member for Westminster and he regretted still more that the Hon . Member should have thought it right and proper to make that arena the house of appeal from a tribunal the full competency and legality of which had been admitted by his Hon . Friend the Member for Kilkenny . The Hon . Member for Westminster had laid aside all thoughts of , nay , all reference to the prerogative of mercy , which was vested in the Crown , and had claimed that as a right , which heretofore had only been accorded bv the free nx <> r » iaa
of the royal will . The Hon . Member had stated that the three individuals on whose behalf he had addressed the House had been tried for a political offence , but to his ( Mr . F . Maule ' s ) mind the crime for which these persons had been arraigned deserved a somewhat stronger term than the Hon . Member had affixed to it . ( Hear , hear . ) Their object was to overturn the present scheme of society and they endeavoured by violence and having recourse to secret conspiracies to strike at the roota of all the institutions of the country . The obiec
tions winch , were brought forward at the trial of these persons by their legal advisers , and which had been adverted to by the Hon . Member , had been as he stated , referred to the Judges who sat on the Commission ; and the Hon . Member had also averred that , inasmuch as the ppint was considered by two * of the then Judges to be in the prisoners' favour that decision ought to be taken as valid , and that the Court ougnt to have so decided on the spot and have given them the full benefit of the mistake Now , to him ( Mr . Fox Maule ) , it did , he confessed , appear that the very fact of the refusal of the Court to decide on the spot , showed tbat the judgea had very strong doubts as to the and
point , they , therefore , complied with the forms of the law ,, usually adopted on such occasions , and reserved the point for the consideration and decision of the fifteen Judges , and in the meantime directed the trial to proceed . His Hon . Friend the Member for Kilkenny had said that this was not the usual practice in such cases , but he ( Mr . F . Maule ) should probably be followed on tho present occasion by some of his Hon . and Legal Friends near him , who were more learned in the law than himself , and it would be shown by them that the assertion of the Hon . Member for Middlesex was not correct . By the reserving the point for after-consideration by the fifteen Judges , the court gave all the advantages
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that the law awarded to the unhappy persons who were arraigned before them . The Hon . Gentleman then referred to the proceedings at the trial of Mr . frost , but in so indistinct a tone as to be nearly inaudible ; he was , however , understood to advert to that part of the proceedings where Sir F . Pollock endeavoured to obtain an admission from Lord Chief Justice Tlndal , that if the objection were decided in favour of his client , the effect would be the same as a verdict of acquittal , which position was not allowed by the Judge , who observed that the only effect which such a result would have , wa 3 that of deferring their trial for a time . He would not follow the Honourable Member for Westminster into the case of these persons , but he would take such parts of it as were most to the purpose . forDrovinir
mat the claim ot the Hon . Member for a free pardon was as unfounded in a legal as it was inexpedient in a practical point of view . The result of the reference to the fifteen Judges had been stated in a letter V I t ^ crotary for the Home Department , which had boen already made public , from which it appeared that a majority of nine against six of the niteen had decided that the objection was good whilst , on the other hand , nine against six had deemed that the objection was urged too lato . But the whole of the Judges were unanimous in the opinion , that the only effect which the objection , if allowed in ail its force , could have had , would have been to postpone the trial for some days , in order to afford the law officers of tbe Crown sufficient time to make the service in a proper fotm ; and looking .
ttttfi » - ** Mi w *« fwmded in' Uw evidenw , was leK » l and wght . Whether the prisoners wer «' trted ten days soofter or . tea days later , in his opinion , mattered little , as they would , in all probability ! U u ? , en more P P"ed after the delny than tnoy had been at tho moment when tho trials wore proceeded in . The memorial which had been prepared by the legal advisers of the prisoners had stated all that Hon . Member for Westminster had urged on their behalf ; and to that memorial tho Judges gave their answer in a letter to his Noble * rieiid , the Secretary for the Homo Department , which , with the permtesion of the House , ho would read . Tho Hon . Member then proceeded to road
the document referred to by him , but his back being turned to the gallery , h * was not very audible . Tuo Judges letter was understood to state to , tho Noble Marquis at the head of the Home Office , that they had read and considered the memorial prepared aud presented on bohalf of Mr , Fro « t and his associates by their counsel ( Sir F . Pollock and Mr . Kelly ) , and they were of opiuion tbat it was founded on a total misconception of the law of crimiaal procedure , and aiso , m so far as the whole Bench was considered , in a total misconception of the opinion recently pronounced by the Couit relative t « the objection . Tho practice in cas « of criminal / procedure was that whenever a Judtfe , in the trial of an indictment , felt a serious doubt to arise in his mind
upon any point raised on the prisoner ' s behalf , he alwayB decided against the prisoner and allowed the trial to go on , reserving the doubtful point for the opinion ot tho other Judges ; and the opinion of the majority in such cases always bound the Judge who reserved the point . If it were againat the prisoner , the law was permitted to take its course ; If in his favour , a free pardon was the immediate consequonco . And this course was invariably adopted whether the prisoner consented to it or not . There was no ground , therefore , looking at the memorial m this point of view , to entitlo the prisoner Frost , or his associates , to claim a free pardon . Such was the opinion of the authorities to whom the memorial had been referred , and upon that his Noble Friend had but
one course to purauo-namely , to consider the verdict as a correct one , and that the sentence which had followed it ought to bo , oven if it ha * not bfen , enforced . With respect to tho arguments which had been adduced in reference to tho exercise of the royal clemency in this case , he could only say that those who attributed it in this case to any other motive than that of softening the rigour , whilst it was determined to vindicate the principle of the law , wore m error , and laboured under a groat mistake ; and when he considered the circumstances undor K M ! ° [ P » 8 Oner 9 was consummated , he thought that the sentence by which their lives were spared , and they were banished from the countmought to be looked upon by themselves and $ 252 f % V thwr cau 8 e M » n »«» of lenity on tMJift of the Government which thev h&d ontrabhA .
U was not for him to attempt to detormine whether w nftUto puhTihment tTt ^ x ^ mmwS than de » th ^ as had been statecrfcy the Hon . M&nW for Westminster ; but , from the experience he ( Mr , i . Maule ) had had . he must say that he never sail an instance in which a criminal preferred execution oa the scaffold to transportation , or in which the family of the condemned man , or the man himself , were not most deeply grateful wherever , through the royal clemency , a sentence of death had been commuted to one of transportation . ( Hear , hear . ) And those Hon . Gentlemen who had endeavoured to persuade the public that it were better to be hanged than transported , he must add , paid but little attention to the arguments of his Right Hon . Friend the other night , —( hear)—and those who supported him . ( Hear , hear . ) With these remarks , he begged leave to state that he must oppose the motion of the Hon , Member for Westminster .
Mr . DUNCOMBE agreed in much that had been said by tho Hon . Under-Secretary , but he differed exceedingly from that part towards the conclusion in which he mixed up the crjmes of the individuals wnh the points of law . ( Hear , hear . ) If this question were exclusively one of crime , not of law he should say that there were no three individuals ' whose lives were mors justly forfeited to theeffended laws of their country than those of Frost , Williams , and Jones ; for if their intentions had been successful , loss of life and of property , to a great extent , must have ensued . ( Hear , hear . ) However , he contended that the law , on this occasion , should have altogether acquitted those unhappy men . He relied upon the statute of the 7 th Anne , and the 12 th of
George IIL , to sustain his point ; and as to whether the word " simultaneously , " referring to the necestity of serving the prisoners with lists of the witnesses and jurors , and copies of the indictment at the same time , did not mean at the same period , instead of at different ones , he would prefer the authority of "Johnson ' s Dictionary" to that of the fifteeen Judges , and the public were generally agreed that the obvious interpretation of the word was the best . It appeared that the prisoners could not legally be hung , therefore they could not legally be transported , for the objections were as valid in the second degree as in the first . He must here say that he was surprised at the absence of the Hon . and Learned Members who had been retained as
counsel for the prisoners , particularly as they had written to his Hon . Friend respecting him , who postponed his motion until thej could attend . ( Hear . ) It was expected those Hon . and Learned Gentlemen would be present now on behalf of their unhappy clients ; but they were absent , and the prisoners wore now on the wide seas . ( Hear , hear . ) He believed , however , that the objection at the trial was made in good time , for he found that the Hon . and Learned Member for Huntingdon solemnly declared to God before the Judges in the Court of Queen's Bench , that there was no authority , principle , or precedent , that he knew of , to show that he could have taken his objections at any other time than that at which the Jury was sworn . He
also begged leave to read to the House a letter he had received on the same subject from Mr . Thomas , the counsel for Zephaniah Williams . The letter stated that the writer took the objection at the proper time—namely , before the Jury was called . He objected to the Ber vice of the lists , but he could not stop the trial ; the Attorney-General heard the objections , but still he permitted the trial to proceed . He ( Mr . Thomas ) again objected when the first witness against Williams was called , and again he objected to the whole proceeding when Baron Parke was about to sum up ; so that in every point of view his objections , so far as Williams was concerned , were made early enough . Mr . Thomas then proceeded to argue that unanimity was as necessary
when the Judges had to decide a question , aa when a Jury had decided one , and thai if the Judges could not interfere , their Lordships' difference should , as in the case of a discordant Jury , go for the benefit of the accused . On these grounds he ( Mr . Duncombe ) must support the motion of bis Hon . Friend . He wished not to palliate the crime of these persons , but he wished that strict justice should be done in every case , and npon every principle of justice he was persuaded those banished men were entitled to a free discharge . Sir S . LUSHINGTON said , though this question came before a thin House , it was , however , one of
very considerable importance to the interests of the country , and he hoped the result of this discussion would dispel much doubt and erroneous opinion , which seemed to have been industriously circulated from time to time respecting it , especially amongst the manufacturing classes . He was prepared to say that the sentence of the criminals should be carried into effect upon every consideration of law , justioe , and public expediency . ( Hear , hear . ) It had been truly said that it was most material to make a distinction between the question of guilt and the . question of law , and it was a great satisfaction to him to think that at least one public benefit would result
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from this debate . He alluded to the effects of the . frank admissions made by the Hon . Member for Finsbury , and others * that the crime of which thete parties yrere convicted was of the mo 3 t atrocious , ^ "Ption . ( H ear , hear . ) It was most important / & that there should be no misunderstanding tekpectiaK this question . It ought not to be . opposed that Hi / party m that house viewed , tbia ae a mere political onence-4 hat no one on either fide was disposed to connive at it , —but that they unanimously regardedtheir act as a determined attempt . bV bloodshed and
aestniction , to overthrow all liberty , and all the foundations on which the Government of this or anyother country could « tand . ( Hear , hear . ) Hm was delighted to think that this feeling on tho part c £ the Houee , going forth to the world , would di .-abuse many whose minds had been poisoned by public * , tions , which had induced them to take up opinions different from the truth , and cast the protection of a political character over that which . was in reality the greatest crime that could be committed against the law of the land . ( Hear , hear . ) Having said so much on the question of guilt , he would now come to the question of law which the Hon . Member for Finsbury had bo well argued . He could not help observing that cases might arise , under an extraordinary combination of circumstances , which would
justify an appeal to this House in an extremity . Yet , upon general grounds , he was determinedly opposed to the principle of making this House a tribunal of appeal from the ordinary courts of justice , or from the prerogative of the Crown , which sometimes exercised its functions of mercy for reasons not always stated to the public . ( Hear , hear ) But to return to the question of law , the moral guilt of the parties being admitted , tho next point was whether , in tho course of tho trial , an erroiifoua decision had been made , and whether , if it wvre so , the prisoners were entitled to a remission of punishment , if not to an acquittal . It was statci that tho list of wiinesses should have been delivered ( o the pri-ouers at the samo time with the copies of tho indictment . Now , did this complaint coutaiu evidence oMiuidMiip or injustice , cr a tingle inconvur . enco which could have preventod tho nrison .. rs irom fiil )»
preparing for their defence » It is not that the list ot witnesses was delivered afterwards , but bouauso it was not delivered at the samo time aa the indictm , eut ii ha l k ° Prisoners assumed that they had been IllftgUlr ^ eak with by the prosecution . T 4 o fact was , ho * rover , th »» , by having the listof wKnjaJwa delivered so many days beforehand , the prisoner * had a more ample opportunity of preparing for their defence . They wero not prejudiced in any way whatever . Respecting the trial , the question which took place wai what ought to be tho practice ot thj Judges ? This embraced two poinrs . The first , what was tho ordinary usage ; tho next whether 4 hey had acted properly un that occasion , into the seeond point ho need not enter , because tho
letter of tho Lord Chief Justice denied that they liaU deviated- from tho customary rule on that occasion , and when they examined tho rule , it would appear most extraordinary indeed if this caso were inado an exception from the established proceeding in all cases of » mmilar description . The Judges said , We reserve tho doubtful point for the consideration of the Judges at large , " which meant that the law on tho point should bo decided by the opinion of the Judges . ( Hear , hear . ) It was next argued that entire remission of punishment should have beeo granted , because two of tho Judges in the Commission admitted the validity of the objections ; and next , because tho objections ought to have been decidad at the moment . Now , what was the practice in such cases ! Ho wouM not daro ta
state any opinion , resulting from his own experience , but he had the opinions of many Learnod Judges . But even some V' * rd back , a similar instance of a strange nature occurred to himself when he was at the Old Bailey , when the Admiralty Court was held there—he had there to sustain a heavy burden . There was a caso which involved tho lives of thirtyseven persons . The Judges who wore to try the indictment were Lord Stowell , Lord Tenterdcn , and the late Mr . ' Jmtioe Parko . He took an objection , and pressed for an immediate decision , as it was a much stronger case than could come on at the assizes ; and if the case were referred to the twelve Judges , he could not have tho opinion of Lerd Stowell , which he wanted , but who could not
be present . After hearing him for a while L « vd Tenterdcn ! stopped him , asking him whether ho meant to proas instantcr for a decision on a point of such difficulty and importance- ? Ho therefore did not press for a decision instanter . But if he had pressed , and if thero were not time to consider it , it would have been given against tho prisoner , and considered afterwards before all tho Judges . Good God ! was it to be expected that , when an objection was made involving the life or death of a fellow-creature , that a Judge was to decide on the moment without reflection or comparison , or an opportunity of consulting authorities . ( Hear , hear . ) The prisoners had every advantage which the learning and ingenuity of their counsel could suggest . They made * most splendid and ablo defence for the prisoners . They did not fail in their exertions after conviction , but used every effort to obtain for them a remission of
^ their sentence . ( Hear , hear . ) There was- no such doubt upon the law as would justify th * interposition , of the House . They were told that the prifu > n ° *» had boon convicted agaiMt- taw , and ye * the Judges nad decided that the jconviction was legal . ( Hear , hea& hearA , It wasu ^ nlidexed fcy some of the Learned Judges- thit the-objection-taken by the Learned Counsel was not taken in time , and others of the Judges had given it as their opinion that the objection was not tenable . Under these circumstances was it for the house te impeach the judgment of the court , and to constitute themsolves , for the first time , a high court of appeal in a criminal case ;? ( Hear , hear . ) He ( Sir S . Lushington ) wonld Bay that these men might have been legally executed . Hundreds of men had gone to the scaffold when a difference of opinion had prevailed among the Judges , and when no question was against the legality of the punishment . Mr . WAKLEY—It onght to have been .
Sir S . LUSHINGTON—It ought to have been , remarked tfce Hon . Member for Finabury ; he ( Sir 8 . Lushington ; would say it ought not to have been . If appeals were to be made to the house when any difference of opinion might arise among the Jndges , what would be the consequence ? They would weaken tho authority of the law , and the making of such appeals to the house would load to the entire distortion of justice . ( Hear , hear . ) There was no man living who rejoiced more than he ( Sir S . LushiDgton ) did that the mercy of the Crown had been extended to the prisoners .
He was persuaded that had they been executed a revulsion of feeling would have been created in their favour , and the opinion that was so generally prevailing in the country against tne infliction of capital punishments would have tended very materially to produce the result he had alluded to . ( Hear , hear . ) The conviction and the sentence were according to law , and he prayed the house not to interfere either with the law or with the sentence . The punishment the prisoners were suffering was commensurate with their crime , and he waa convinced that no good could result from any interference on the part of the house . ( Hear , hear . )
Mr . WAKLEY said that the Right Hon . Gentleman who had just sat down had remarked that the Hon . Member for Finsbury ( Mr . Duncombe ) had argued the case like a lawyer . He ( Mr . Wakley ) thought that , oa the contrary , the Hon . Member had aTgued it more like a man of common sense . ( Hear , hear , and laughter . ) The Right Hon . Gentleman had said that hundreds of persons had been executed without any application been made to that House ; and he had said , or insinuated , that the House was not competent to understand tha laws . ( Hear , hear . ) The Learned Judges , at all events , could not agree upon the question submitted to them , and the public could not understand how fifteen gentlemen , who were paid such enormous suma out of the public money could be so chequered and
divided in their opinions regarding Frost and the other prisoners . Six of these learned Judges decided that Saturday wasMonday , and the other Bix decided on the contrary , that Monday was Saturday . He ( Mr . Waklej ) would be the first to bow to the superior knowledge of the Judges , but when he found that their decisions were so absurd , he should not for his part be inclined to refer to them . He regretted that the matter bad come before the House that night , as the two Honourable and Learned Gentlemen ( Sir F . Pollock and Mr . Kellyy who had advocated the cause of the prisoners with so much ability , were not in their places . He intended to have requested the Hon . Member for Westminster iMr .
Leader ) to ask the permission of the House to withdraw the motion for the present The two Hon . and Learned Members who had defended the prisoners so ably would have been unwilling to enter into any discussion as to- the guilt or innocence of the prisoners , but in this case he felt that it was absolutely impossible to do justice to the great constitutional question before the House ; and , in the absence of the two Hon . and Learned gentlemen , he begged that his Hon . Friend would not press the motion to a division—( hear , hear )—as he was persuaded that to do so would be to inflict a great evil on the prisoners . ( Hear , bear , hear . )
Mr . LEADER had but a few words to say with referente to the appeal which had just been made to him by hU Hon . Friend the Member for Finsbury . He ( Mr . Leader ) could not see what advantage they could have by tha presence of the two Hon . and Learned Gentlemen who had been referred to , and he could not understand , why he should give the House the trouble of discussing the question , and then to withdraw it , because the two H » n . and Learned Gentlemen did not happen to be in the House . Mr . WAKLEY—Because you will have a amall minority .
Mr . LEADER never expected anything but a small minority , and he had so stated to those who urged him to bring the question before the Hoase . H « distinctly gave it as his opinion that he could not have anything but a small minority , and he did not , therefore , see that any advantge could arise from not proceeding with the question at present —( criea of divide , divide , " and strangew were ordered to withdraw . ) The House then divided—For tbe motion 5 Against it . « g Majority against tbe motion — # S
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Y 0 L , III . No , \ 22 . SATURDAY , MARCH 14 1840 ~ routes haifp *** , y - ^ f * - " ^** . 4 ^ J . U"ay » rwe smiltega per HnaW .
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), March 14, 1840, page unpage, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/king-y1kbzq92ze2675/page/1/
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