On this page

• Text (2)

  Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.

  • 

    Mabch 14. 1846. THE NOKTHERN STAR 7

  • 

    » 1 do not deny to this house the com pe...

• Transcript

  • Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.

    Additionally, when viewing full transcripts, extracted text may not be in the same order as the original document.

    Mabch 14. 1846. The Nokthern Star 7

    Mabch 14 . 1846 . THE NOKTHERN STAR 7

    » 1 Do Not Deny To This House The Com Pe...

    » 1 do not deny to this house the com petency or the right of interference on such a question ; but ! \ pi say , that I think that interference oug ht at all rimes to be tempered with discretion , that it ought pot tobe lightly undertaken , and that upon the whole ; t is most desirable to maintain strictly the line ot demarcation between the functions of the legislative suid executive government . Itmustalwaysbeborne in mind that the brig htest and noblest prerogative enjoyed by the Sovereign ia exercised under the advice of the responsible Ministers of the Crown ; snd I shall not shrink from my responsibility , as one of the advisers of her Majesty with reference to the present case . The hon . member for Finsbury had stated that the persons whose situation he has

    brought under the notice of the house vvere _ misguided and unfortunate . 1 must say , I dissent altogether from the position of the hon . gentleman that they were unfortunate , for 1 consider that with reference to the crime of which thev stand convicted , they were fortunate in the highest degree . The hon . gentleman has also said that the feeling in favour of these individual is strong and very general . I admit it . But the hon . member went on to say that that feeling was universal . To such a proposition I most equivocally demur . Those who believe that the sentence passed on these individuals ought to be commuted have not hesitated to express so humane a feeling ; hut , on the other hand , those who think the cause of justice

    and order requires that the punishment to which ihey have been sentenced should be inflicted , have abstained from the expression of that opinion , in full reliance upon the disposition of her Majesty to exercise the prerogative of mercy consistently with principles of justice . ( Hear , hear . ) The hon . member for Finsbury has stated that , in his opinion , the conviction of the persons to whom he has referred was not legal . He has stated very accurately the point of Jaw which was reserved forthe opinion of the judges , and a nicer technicality could not well have been brought under their consideration . The facts are these : —The statute , which justly affords peculiar advantages to parties accused of treasonprovides that they shall have certain

    privi-, leges which are not extended to prisoners accused of other offences . Among those advantages is thisthat partiisaecused of treason shall be furnished with a copy of the indictment , and a . list of witnesses , at the same time , and within a given period before the trial The prisoners in this . case were most anxious to obtain , at the earliest possible period , a copy of the indictment on which the grand jury had found a bill against them ; and the solicitor for the Crown , with an eager andcommendabledesireto afford them the full advantage of their privilege , furnished them with a copy of the indictment at the earliest possible period , five days betbre the expiration of the period within which he was required by law to do so . On the day within the limit prescribed by law he also

    furnished them with a list of witnesses ; and ihe point taken was , that the delivery of the two—the copy of the indictment and the list of witnesseswas not simultaneous . That point was reserved by the learned judges who tried the prisoners for the Opinion of their brethren . The hon . member for rinsburv has said that I have admitted , under certain limitations , rite necessity of an appeal in erimi- j nal cases ; and because I had made that admission , he put a case in which an appeal was made from the opinion of the judges to the decision of the House of Lords . I never held out the slightest expectation that I could be a party to the es tablishment of such an appeal in cases of felony . As th « rlaw now stands the final anneal in criminal cases is to the opinion

    of the fifteen judges , and the decision of the hlteen judges upon the question is held to be final . __ Sow , what was ihe opinion of the fifteen judges in the case to which the honourable gentleman referred ? It is true that nine out of the fifteen held that the objection , if taken at the right time , would have been valid ; but it is also true that nine out of the fifteen held , that in this case the objection was not taken at the right time . So far the hon . member for Knshnry and myself are agreed . But what was the unanimous opinion of the whole fifteen judges ? It was , that if the objection had been taken at the right time , the sole effect would have been a postponement of the trial , and the case would

    have been decided at a subsequent period . ( Hear , hear . ) 1 must repeat my observation that , considering the advantage which " was most humanely—asd , as I think , rightly—extended to them by the advisers of the Crown , and considering also that the extreme sentence of the law was not carried into execution on account of this difference of opinion among the judges , these prisoners were most fortunate . But I next come to the point taken by the hon . member for Finsbury , that the offence of which these prisoners were guilty was only a moral demonstration in favour of the Charter . I think the hon . gentleman said it was onlr to be regarded as a moral demonstration . ( "Xo , " no ! " from Mr . Duucoiube . ) Well , then , 1 withdraw the statement .

    Air . T . HcscoMng said , what he had stated was , that he believed that Frost had come down from the hills in order to make a moral demonstration in favour of Vincent , who was then in confinement in -Monmouth . Sir J . Graham . —I understand the hon . gentleman to say that the purpose of Frost in going on the night in question to Newport , was to make amoral demon-5 tr . iuon . I must observe , in justice to the hon . member , that he frankly admitted that those persons were convicted of a heinous offence , and one which , in his opinion , was wholly unjustifiable . This circumstance induces me to state to the house—or rather to recall to their recollection—what were the facts of the case . It is not for me to defend the opinions

    of the right hon . member for Edinburgh ( Mr . Macauley ) , who is far more competent than 1 am to vindicate the sentiments he has recorded on the subject ; hut I may say , deliberately and dispassionately , after viewing the circumstances of this case , with respect to the offence itself , that I have arrived at the same conclusion with the right hon . gentleman . I must say , that a more heinous offence has seldom been committed . Xow , what were the facts ? In the year 1 S 39 there was great distress in the mining districts of this country . The price of provisions was high ; the rate of wages was low ; and a very general spirit of disaffection and insubordination was manifested . Iu the moment of that distress , amidst a population so excited and discontented , in a dLtriet where frequent meetings of the people hadbeenhem , "Frost , who exercised great influence in the neighbourhood ,

    decided , in concert with Williams and Jones , that , upon a particular evening , a descent should be made at midnight upon the town of I ^ ewport , by three different columns—one headed by Frost , the second by Williams , and the third by Jones . Their avowed purpose was to overpower the military quartered in tiiattown ; to take possession of the place ; to break up the bridge over ihe Usk ; and to stop the mail . The stopping of the mail was a preconcerted signal , by which the population of Birmingham and the northern districts were to know that Newport was in their possession , and there was then to have been a general rising for the purpose of establishing the t'iiarter . "Jfow , that I may not misrepresent the matter , I will call the attention of the house to what was proved on the trial of these men . The hon . j member for Finsburv has trulv said that the Crown

    was represented onthatoccashm by two of the brightest ornaments of the profession of the law—Lord Campbell , who was then the Attorney-General , and iriiosemind was deeply and honourably imbued with sound constitutional principles ; and " the hon . and learned member for Worcester ( Sir T . Wilde ) , who , at ^ the time to wh ich I refe r , filled the office ef Solicitor-General . "Sow , what said the Lord Chief Justice Tindal—than whom a more eminent and dispassionate judge is not to be found—{ -ear , hear)— -in samming up the case on the trial of these parties ? The Lord Chief Justice said , " The charge against the prisoner at the bar is , that Laving broken the faith and true allegiance which he owed to hislawM Sovereign , he has levied war

    against her within her realm—that is , in one * word , a charge of high treason . 1 observed that the learned Attorney-General stated the case on the port of the Crown against the prisoners to he this , —that the prisoner at the bar had brought down to the town of Newport a very large multitude of persons , armed and arrayed in a warlike manner , and that the plan was to get possession of the town of "Newport , to break down the bridge , stop the mail , and thatt he mail not having arrived at Birmingham for some time , it would be a signal for a general rising in Birmingham andLancashire , andthe Charter law would become the law of the land . The learned Solicitor-General , who has summed up the evidence , had Stated the outline of the ease , which has been proved

    pretty nearly in the same form , omitting with great propriety that part of it upon which no evidence has been offered—namely , that which related to the general establishment of Charter Jaw . The Solicitor-General stated that the plan of the prisoner was to get together bands of armed men , with intent , by surprise and terror , or by force , to take "Newport , to exercise power there , to supersede the magistracy , and thereby raise a general rebellion within the kingdom . "Now , there can f « no doubt whatever , " that if either of the propositions which have been so stated by the law officers of the Crown is made out to your satisfaction , there is full proof of the commission bv

    the prisoner of the crime of high treason . " Xo w , npon that summing up , and after hearing the defence —a defence , 1 believe , almost unrivalled in point of talent and force , which was conducted by the hon . asd learned Solicitor-General , and the present Lord i > ii , li ' ° f the Court of Exchequer , Sir F . loUock — ufter cvciytlung that le-al in- ^ amtr , pawcrru . eloquence , and an earnest desire to obtain the acquittal of the prisoners had been exhausted the jury , weighing the evidence under the direction of Lord Chief Justice Tindal . and with reference to the statement of the law officers of the Crown , deliberately adopted a verdict of " guilty . " ifow , listen to what fell from Lord Chief Justice Tindal ] in passins sentence upon these prisoners . lie said : —

    "It has been proved , in your easo , that you combined together to lead from the hills , at the dead hour of night , into the town of . Newport , many thousands of men armed in many instances with weapons of a danger ous description , in order that they might

    » 1 Do Not Deny To This House The Com Pe...

    take possession of the town , and supersede the lawful authority of the Queen , as a preliminary step to a more general insurrection throughout the kingdom . It is owing to the interposition of Providence alone that your wicked designs were frustrated . Your followers arrive by daylight , and , after firing upon the civil power , and upon the Queen ' s troops , are by the firmness of the magistrates , and the cool and determined bravery of a small body ot soldiers , defeated and dispersed . "What would have been the fate of the peaceful and unoffending inhabitants of that town , if success bad attended your rebellious designs , it is impossible to say . The invasion of a foreign foe would , in all probability , hare been less destructive to property and life . It is for I the crime of high treason , committed under these

    circumstances , that you are now called upon yourselves to answer ; and by the penalty which you are about to suffer , you hold out a warning to all your fellow-subjects , that the law of yourcountry isstrong enough to repress and to punish all attempts to alter the established order of things by insurrection and armed force ; and that those who are found guilty of such treasonable attempts must expiate their crime by an ignominious death . " I have already observed that on account of a peint of legal difficulty , which was not ruled in favour of the prisoners , but upon which there was a material difference of opinion among the judges , the prisoners were spared that ignominious death , and their punishment was commuted to transportation for life ; and we are now to

    consider whether thatsentence should be carried into execution . 1 do not wish to aggravate this ease , but I should betm my duty if , in weighing this matter , I did not take ' into consideration one important fact , I have said that Frost possessed great influence in the neighbourhood in which he resided . On that i-round he had been intrusted with her Majesty s commission forthe preservation of the peace . ( Hear , hear . ) lie was intrusted with that commission in the confident expectation that all his influence and power would be exerted among his neighbours for the purpose of maintaining order , tranquillity , and peace . He abused that triist- ( bea * r)—he grossly abused it ; he abused it to the extent 1 have already stated , ( llear . ") And , certainly , if justice is to be

    administered—as 1 hope it ever will be in this country—with mercy , but still with a due regard to the example to be afforded to a great community , I cannot overlook this circumstance of so gross an abuse of a trust so important . ( Hear , hear . ) I must be allowed to make another observation . The night on which this movement took place was unusually dark and tempestuous . Frost did not consider the fatal and disastrous result which his conduct would produce ; he had no misgivings as to the consequences of his crime ; but , by an interposition of Providence , the dark and . tempestuous night prevented the insurgents from arriving at Newport till daybreak . Frost headed the first column and brought it into the centre of the town , to a building in which a small

    portion of her Majesty ' s troops had been posted . He ordered the column to fall out in front ; he pointed out the post as an object of attack , and told the men to go forward . But Frost was not found in their front , he was discovered some hours afterwards in a lridingplace in which he had taken refuge . A ' ow , with respect to the punishment of these parties , wo must consider hew much of that punishment has already been inflicted . The sentence , as I have before said , was commuted to transportation for life , and what time has elapsed since the infliction of that punishment commenced ! A period net exceeding five years . ( Hear , hear . ) Why , sir , a person transported for seven years for am ' wor offence would not , in the ordinary course of the administration of justice in

    this country , have his sentence commuted at so early a period . According to the ordinary mode of proceeding , a sentence of transportation for life , even under the most favourable circumstances , would ntt be commuted until the expiration of ten years . A ' ow , I must remark , that if punishment be not of a vindictive character—as in this country I hope it never will be ; bat if it be inflicted for the suppression of crime , and in order to afford an example to a great community , I cannot think that I should be justified in advising her Majesty to accede to the prayer of the petitioners who have supported the motion of the hon . member for Finsbury . My sympathy , I am bound to say , is not with Frost and Williams . My sympathy is with the widows and

    orphans of those men whom Frost , Williams , and Jones misled , and who lost their lives on the occasion to which I have referred . ( Hear . ) I must say that I think it is useful that those men should remain—at present at least—examples that such advice as they gave to the people generally proceeds from men bold in counsel , but timid in execution ; and who , when matters come to an issue , are eager to screen themselves from the consequences of their misconduct , instead of being found in the foremost rank of those whom they have incited to crimeand outrage . ( Hear , hear . ) Their exemple , 1 think , may afford a salutary and useful lesson . I am bound to say that I cannot think , under piescnt circumstances , it would be consistent with my duty to advise the remission

    of the punishment to which these parties have been sentenced . Far be it from me to say that the gate of mercy should for ever be closed against them . Fat be it from me to hold any such doctrine . 1 say that it is a question of time and circumstances . At the present time , and under present circumstances , I do not think that it would be consistent with my duty to recommend her Majesty to extend her clemency to these unfortunate prisoners . 1 do not consider it advisable that any interference should take place . No man respects more than I do the feelings and wishes of so large a portion of the community as have expressed their opinions in favour of the motion of the hon . member for Finsbury ; but justice is administered for the benefit of the entire community ,

    and my belief is , that it would not be for their advantage , rightly understood , that I should accede to the proposition of the hon . gentleman . ( Hear , hear . ) Mr . Macaulet said he would not have uttered a simile word on this occasion , but for the introduction of hU name by the hon . memuerwhohroughtforward the motion . The hon . member must permit him to begin by setting right some mistake into which he had fallen . There existed no such connexion between the letters which he had introduced to the notice of the house as he seemed to suppose . Those two letters were written at ditferent times , and to different persons . One of them was written to a constituent of his ( Mr . Macauley ' s ) in answer to some scruples which that constituent entertained about

    contributing to the support of the militia , and the other was in answer to the secretary of a committee , who requested him to support the motion of the hon . gentleman in favour of the pardon of Frost , Williams , and Jones . He ( Mr . Macauley ) had had no notion that either of those letters would be published . One of them was written in the strictest privacy ; though , with respect to the other , which was addressed to the secretary of a committee , perhai-shehadnotsomuch right to complain of the publication . They were , however , published together without his ( Mr . Macauley ' s ) authority , but , whatever influence they might be thought to have on the tenure of his scat for the place he had now the honour to represent , they were not published , he presumed , with any view to injure the case now under discussion . With respect to the first of those letters , and with respect to the question oi ' the elective franchise , it would be very

    much out of place now to go over again all the grounds which he had already urged in opposition to the petition presented by the hon . member for Finsbury in 1812 . There was not one word in the letter in reference to that subject which he was not prepared to abide by . ( Hear , hear . ) But he would not be turned away from the discussion of the question before the house ; he would not on the present occasion be led into a discussion of the principles of Chartism , but he requested any hon . gentleman who might have a doubt as to what the objects of Chartism were , to read for himself that national petition presented by the hon . member for Finsbury , and to judge whether be ( Mr . Macauley ) had described them rightly or not . He begged to say that the letter which he had written in reference to the case of Frost , Williams , i and J ones , was written without any expectation on his part that it would ever be published ; i but there W . -13 not one word in it which he was

    not prepared to reassert ( Hear , hear . ) In the first place , he had a preliminary objection to the motion of the hon . member for Finsbury , which would be decisive , even if the case brought forward by that hon . member were stronger than it was . He had a strong and insurmountable objection to any inter ference on the part of this house with this particidar prerogative of the Crown . "No doubt they had a right to advise the Queen with respect to the exercise of any of her prerogatives . _ There was no law which said that they might advise the Queen with respect to one prerogative , but that with respect to another *' ne House of Commons should not interfere . Btu ^ ihe discretion of former Houses of Commons had alwavs imposed on them , and the discretion

    of the present ought to impose upon it , certain rules not to be lightly passed by . ( llear , hear . ) It was from no superstitious feeling , from no blind reverence for the Queen ' s prerogatives , that ho spoke ; for he wished that none should exist except for the general good , - but was it not obvious that the persons by by whom the Queen should be advised with respect to the exercise of the prerogative of mercy should he the same persons as were responsible for the peace and order of society ? ( Hear , hear . ) lie could not but fear , from what had fallen from the hon . member for Finsbury , that he looked ou the exercise of the prerogative of mercy in an erroneous light . The hon . gentleman seemed to think

    that its exercise should be a matter of mere amusement and pleasure . ( Hear , hear . ) " What a monstrous thiu ; :, " exclaimed the hon . gentleman , " that when a Prince of Wales and a Princess Royal were bom , prisoners were not pardoned . " ( Cheers and laughter . ) Such was not his ( Mr . Macaulev's ) view . He did not think that the Royal mercy wiis , like a firework , to be let off to celebrate a festival or joyous occasion . ( Cheers . ) The lloyal mercv was a ' distinct part ef justice ; it was a solemn And awful attribute . It rested on tliis principle , that the government was bound to preserve the peace of socictv , and to protect file and property , and they were bound to do this with the smallest infliction of suffering ( even on the guilty ) which was compatible with the

    » 1 Do Not Deny To This House The Com Pe...

    accomplishment of the object tnview . ( Hear , hear . ) In such cases as the present nothing was easier than for hon . gentlemen to come down to that house and gratify the good humour of their constituents by asking for pardons for all sorts of partus . He looked upon the orig in of this proceeding to be the natural reaction against that barbarous penal code which had been in force in England during the past century , and the result was that there was now such a sort of effeminate feeling in the country , that there was hardly a case of atrocity with respect to which they would not have thousands of persons petitioning for mercy , if the house gave any encouragement to the practice . It was , therefore , necessary to make a stand in the first instance . ( Hear , hear . ) Hehad no hesitation in saying thatt 11 s prerogative of mernv

    was a power which he would rather entrust to the worst Minister than to the Oest House of Commons . ( Hear , hear . ) If a Minister was bad , they could address the Crown to dismiss him ; but while they had a Minister with respect to whom they did not declare a want ef confidence , it was their duty to leave this matter elsewhere ; and lie could not contemplate the case in reference to which he would interfere with the exercise Qf this prerogative . But if ho could contemplate any such case , it must be one of the most overwhelming , most flagitious , and most monstrous iniquity , making one ' s blood boil , something like the iniquitous cruelty which was perpetrated iu the reign of James II ., with respect to those who took up arms under Monmouth . What was the case

    ef Frost , Williams , aud Jones ? They raised 4000 or 5000 penons , who , armed with fire-arms , scitlies , and deadly weapons , marched at midnight for the purpose of attacking a town , and fired on the Queen ' s troops . Such were the words of his letter . They wounded a magistrate in the discharge of his duty . Mr . Duxcombe . —He was not wounded by their fire . Mr . Macauley . —He had read the trial , and , unless his memory deceived him , two wounds were received by Sir T . Phillips , who , on that occasion , exhibited a gallantry and fortitude which would have done honour to a veteran ; for he informed only Captain Gray of the wounds he had received , without

    letting the soldiers know of them . ( Hear , hear . ) This movement was intended to lead to a general rising in the north of England . ( Hear . ) Let them consider the language of Chief Justice Tindal , Was that language too strong for the occasion ? Imagine the effect of a great civil war between classes iu England . That was what these men meant . ( Hear , hear . ) No war that they had ever seen or heard oi could give the smallest notion of the horrors of such a contest . ( Hear , hear . ) The great wealth , the great civilisation , and all the other advantages of this country , must make a civil war between classes a visitation very different from , and far more horrible , than tlie wars of the Roses or of the Cavaliers and Roundheads .

    Was , then , that house to treat this as a light case ? ( Hear , hear . ) What were the motives which imp elled these men to such conduct 1 Were they of a light kind ? Were the objects in view small and insignificant , which ordinary minds were likely to reject as of no weight , and were not likely to lead to imitators ? ( llear . ) Murder and spoliation of every kind were always contemplated by the men committing these crimes , and the causes which induced them to such a course were made up of all the motives which impelled the human mind , lie was speaking of the leaders ; for with respect to the unhappy multitude that followed them , no one could entertain any other feeling but concern . But in order to be merciful to the multitude , they must

    show severity to the guilty leaders . ( Hear , hear . ) Consider what were the motives which impelled men to take the lead in such proceedings . Every man who committed such crimes wished to succeed , and what was the price if he did succeed ? From a liiiendraper in a country town he would be raised to be the President of a Republic , to be one of a committee of public safety , to be like a Robespierre exercising the power of the State , aud placed on the same footing with the potentates of Europe . This was a prospect of power and distinction flattering to the vanity of every man , and these were the motives and these the visions which appeared to men when meditating on the subversion ot the established government . ( Hear , hear . ) Ami

    what was the punishment that it was now proposed to place against such a crime I Less than that for a misdemeanour or petty larcency . ( llear , hear . ) Was it possible , then , to . doubt that these men would find imitators if it were to go forth that those who committed high treason , who shed blood and raised a great civil war of class against class , and who attempted to subvert the whole order of the State , were to be less punished than the apprentice who stole five shillings from his master ' s till , or the girl who might make free with her mistress ' s ribbons to deck nut her Sunday bonnet ? ( Cheers . ) He contended that these great criminals would have imitators , unless their punishment bore some proportion to their crime . ( Cheers . ) The hon . gentleman quoted

    as a parallel case that of the Canadian rebels . Were none of them hanged 1 [ Mr . Duneombe . — "Not on that occasion . ] He was certain of the fact that a considerable number were hanged . But what was the resemblance between that case and the present ? In the case of the Canadian rebels , they hanged the most guilty and the worst ringleaders , and granted au amnesty to the rest . In the case of Frost the same course was taken , except that nobody was hanged . But they transported the worst , and pardoned the rest . It was . for the hon . gentleman to show how hanging in one case some of the leaders and sparing the multitude was a case of lenity ; and how in the other case only transporting the leaders and pardoning the rest was a case of severity . ( Cheers . )

    He approved of tlie guarded language which the right hon . gentleman opposite had employed . He did not mean to say that no circumstances might arise to justify the exercise of the prerogative of the Crown in this one . Were he to do so he should be committing the same fault as the hon . gentleman near him , aud interfering in a more unamiable way with the prerogative by restricting the exercise of the mercy of the Crown . No one who voted against tlie motion to-night meant to say that Frost , Williams , aud Jones might not at some time be objects for the mercy of the Crown , but only that it was not proved that her Majesty ' s Ministers were not to be trusted with the ordinary exercise of her Majesty ' s prerogative , and that that house would not unprecedented ! v and inconveniently interfere . ( Cheers . )

    Mr . D'Iskaeli was delighted that Mr . Macauley had vindicated his receut letters , and would be still more so , if some right hon . gentleman on the Ministerial benches would come forward and vindicate the letters to which they had recently signed their names . With respect to the question before the house he recollected that he was , five or six years ago , in the small minority of four in favour of this identical motion . He thought it impossible to aggravate the crime which these individuals had committed ; and he felt bound to say that their sentence was as lenient as any sentence could be under the circumstances . But in considering this case hon . members ought to look to all the other circumstances which occurred at the time . He could not forget that the year lSul )

    was a year of great political excitement , and that a system called " agnation" had obtained in this kingdom for a number of years , and that by that agitation , carried as he thought to the nearest confines of sedition , men became ministers , parties were destroyed and constructed , and an administration rose to power formed of individuals who at that time had sat on both sides of the house . Whether they were Secretaries of State or not he need not inquire . ( " Hear , hear , " and a laugh . ) When , theretore , these ignorant and uninformed individuals , seduced by these great examples , by seeing that from this system-of agitation men became Ministers , and by seeing others in another part , of the United Kingdom become more powerful than

    Ministers—when so seduced they brolie out into a course of proceeding which had been discussed tonight , he thought it right to consider their conduct in connexion with all the other circumstances of the time . He ( Mr . D'lsraeli ) knew very well the correspondence that had been held by eminent leaders in this country with organised masses of the people , and he knew that their transactions had been more successful than those of these poor Chartists ; and animated by these convictions , although lie thought their crime enormous , the greatest of all crimes , and the judgment lenient , he felt it his duty to v ^ te in their favour . How , had any circumstance occurred since to change his opinion , and therefore his vote ? The right hon . and learned member ( Mr . Macauley ]

    had instanced the case of one of our colonics ; but it was the case of that colony that very much influenced him ( Mr . D'lsraeli )! He saw a great insurrection there , and found the traitors not only not punished , but rewarded ( hear , hear ); and although not the man to palliate the enormity of the crime in question , he did not want the people of England to feel that there was a difference between colonial and native crime ; an advocate of native industry , he did not wish for this exception . ( Hear , hear , and a laugh . ) if the colonial system could only be carried out by making Mr . Frost a slave , and Mr . Papincnu a speaker of a House of Assembly , then that system ought to be put an end to . ( Cheers . ) But the right hon . and learned gentleman , never richer in his reminiscences that when he appealed to history , went hack to the reign of James 11 ., and said it was rep lete with instances which might be paralleled with

    the present case , but which were innoxious compared with it ; here was a magistrate wounded , and her Majesty ' s troops were fired upon . It might be asked in parenthesis whether her Majesty ' s troops were not fired on in Canada ( hear , hear ); and it might be well to see a return of the magistrates wounded in Canada . ( Hear , hear . ) But when the right hon . and learned gentleman appealed to the reign of James 11 . as the model reign for sedition and treason that should be pardoned , he must bo asked , was not the blood of Sfdginoor as costly as the blood of the- little town of ' Newport ? ( Hear , hear . ) Were wc to be told tr , show no mercy in the case of this insurrection , 0 / - cause in the reign of James 11 . there was a rcbell ' . on in which there was suffering infinitely more sevf re ? The observations of the right hon . and learned , r ' tlemansupplied no validargumentagainstthis rr lotion , Thehou . member then turned to the argurr . ents of Sir James Graham , and admitted that he h a ' d as a

    » 1 Do Not Deny To This House The Com Pe...

    lhn st F' P'aced the question on a constitutional ground in tho earl y part of his soecch . The minister was ot course bound to dilate on the enormity ot the crime , and the delicate nature ot the exercise of the prerogative of the Crown , and no one would question either ; out it created quite an extraordinary sensation to and that the government had a set of opinions they were determined to adhere to . ( A h . ugh . ) But the right hon . baronet paused in that career , and when he had put himself in a clear and intelligible and strong position , both in point of constitutional doctrine , and it Was to be hoped that was not a past sentiment ) of loyal feeling , he virtually added , looking to the hon . members for Finsbury , who were the first to discover that he was of so " squeezable" a

    nature , — " Bring forward the question : on another occasion , iu another session , perhaps in another Parliament , and 1 shall be ready to meet you in the most liberal spirit ; at present I disapprove of the motion , and I wish the prerogative delicately and discreetly used . Do not for a moment suppose that 1 wish to stop you in your constitutional course ; press the Crown , though the exercise of mercy is that prerogative lor which I am peculiarly responsible , and with which this house is the very last authority which should interfere ; but do not persevere just now , although under present circumstances we could not be in a minority . " ( A laugh . ) Now that was not the way in which tho government ought to meet the question . He ( Mr . D'lsraeli ) voted for these

    men years ago , m the hour of their adversity , and would not desert them now but according to the right opinion of society , and the uesuion of the law , they had committed a groat crime , and the law had awarded them a great , though a lenient punishment , and the government ( to use their own official language ) had only two courses , —the men were either to be punished as an example to society , or pardoned as an encouragement to othvrs to feel that there was in the Crown a divine faculty of mercy ; but no government was authorised in standing forward aud saying , " These arc criminals , whose punishment we vindicate , but bring on your motion again , and we do not say we will resist the appeal . " That was a concession of the most demoralising

    character . ( Hear , hear . ) If in such circumstances these men were ever pardoned through the exercise of the highest quality of the Crown , tlie attribute of mercy which all adored , what would they and the multitude they represented say ? Would they feel gratitude to the Crown ? No ; they would only recognise the timidity and weakness of thegovernment . ( llear hear . ) For these and other reasons , if the hon . mover divided the house , he should support liim as before ; but perhaps he would do well to be satisfied with having now placed tiie ease in a light which would call attention to it , and enlist on its side what might be called the wholesome sympathy

    ot the public , so that ultimately , perhaps , the Crown might be induced by its natural impulse and disposition , conscious of that sympathy of its subjects , to view with mercy the conduct of these misguided men . ( Hear , hear . ) Sir J . Gkaiiam complained of the misrepresentation of which the last speaker had been guilty . What he had said was that he could not be responsible , at the present time , for the remission of this punishment , but he had thought it proper to add , that it was not right for any man to presume that there was any limit to the mercy of the Crown .

    Mr . J . A . S . Wortley complained of the influence which personal pique and personal prejudice always exercised over tho mind of Mr . D'Isiiaeu . They had induced him formerly to vote for tho motion , and they induced him to vote in the same manner now . Leaving Mr . D'Iskaeli with these passing observations , he proceeded to remark that the petitions on this subject did not embody publie opinion , and to express his belief that nothing wosld give a greater shock to public opinion than the remission of this

    sentence . He then entered into a review of the circumstances which had led to the trial and condemnation of these men , and showed that so heinous was the crime of which they had been found guilty , that it was only after great pressure that Lord J . Russell and Lord Melbourne commuted the sentence of death into that of transportation lor life . And yet this was the case in which Mr . Duneombe called upon the house to address her Majesty for pardon ! If ever there was-a case in which the house was bound not to interfere , the present was such a case .

    Mr . Aolioxbv wished that Mr . Duneombe could have been persuaded to withdraw his motion alter the speech of Sir J . Graham . Sir 11 . Isolis defended Mr . D'lsraeli from the censure of Mr . S . Wortley , and observed that it was perfectly legitimate in Mr . D'lsraeli to remark that if these men had been led astray , it had been by lights that came from high quarters . But while he ( Sir It . Inglis ) vindicated the tone of the speech of his hon . friend the member for Shrewsbury , he must say that he dissented entirely from the conclusion to which he had consistently arrived . ( Hear , hear . ) Had it not been , however , for the closing sentence of the speech of the right hon . baronet the Secretary of State for the Home Department , he should have been content to sit in silence . He had been very much pleased with the greater part of that speech , but it did , especially towards the close , give him the impression that , while he maintained the right of the Crown to remain unfettered bv the discussions in that

    housewhile , indeed , he deprecated the discussions ill that house—he had not made up his own mind in favour of the permanent execution of the sentence , and that he did give encouragement to a repetition of this motion next year , or some other year . ( "No ' . " from Sir J . Graham . ) Then he withdrew that conclusion . Before concluding , he could not help expressing a wish that the hon . member for Finsbury would withdraw his motion . If he did not , he hoped the house would reject it by a large majority . It was not merely that the prerogatives of the Crown would be best preserved by that house not interfering in this particular case , but that in no instance had public sympathy been less generally excited than in respect of those three individuals . ( Hear , hear . ) People

    talked of political offences as if they were no crimes at all . Why , the offence for which these men had been transported was the concentration and essence of all crimes . ( Hear , hear . ) If they had realised the objects they had in view human imagination could hardly conceive a scene of greater horror and atrocity than would have been witnessed at Newport on the morning of that day when these men were apprehended . The hon . baronet concluded by repeating the expression of his hope that the motion of the hon . member for Finsbury would be defeated by a large majority . Mr . Wakley expressed his surprise and astonishment to find the hon . member for the University of Oxford stating that the only portion of the speech ot the right hon . baronet the Secretary of State with

    which he found fault was that which contained an indication of merciful and humane feeling . Was that the position which the representative of the Church of England had taken ? ( Hear , hear . ) He really should have supposed that the hon . baronet would have been the first man in the country who would have advocated the merciful motion of his ( Mr . Waklcy ' s ) hon . colleague ( Mr . T . Duneombe ) . But how had he been mistaken ! He should be rejoiced it ' he could carry back the I ' ccl ' ing of the house , and the impression arising from the discussion , to what they were at the conclusion of the right lion , baronet ' s speech . ( Hear , hear . ) He ( Mr . Wakley ) was sitting by the side of his hon . colleague at the time , and he made the remark to him , that he feared the

    subsequent discussion ; that he was alarmed at what might transpire during the debate , because his hon . colleague judiciously made an appeal to tho rieht hon . baronet , and asked him if he could hold out iiny hope of mercy being extended to Frost , Williams , and Jones ; and the right hon . baronet , in reply , intimated to his hon . colleague a desire that ho should go on with his statement , lie ( Mr . Wakley ) could ce clearly that the right hon . baronet wanted a vote of that house—if he war . determined to limit the expatriation of these men—to justify him in that position ; because it was absurd to talk of the prerogative of the Crown in such cases . It was an act of the Secretary of State for the Home Department , and of him alone . Now , the right hon . baronet , he

    considered , had made a fair speech , and he did not think that , as a whole , there was any reason whatever to complain of it . It was all that could be expected from a Secretary of State forthe Home Department . Such a Minister was placed in a position of great responsibility ; he had in a great measure the conservation of the country under his especial control , and every person who considered this fact for a moment , must allow that it required n groatexer cise ol' discretion on the part of the Home Secretary to recommend that pesnus who had been found guiltvof such offences should be liberated and restored ' to their country . ( Hear , hear . ) But iu this case his hon . colleague had taken especial cave not to go into the merits of the question . He deprecated the offences

    of which these men were found guilty , and spoke of them as offences of the highest character ; lie did more , he reminded the house of the millions of petitioners who addressed the house on this subject . None of them attempted to j ustify the conduct of these men . But these petitioners were of opinion that if those men had been in a higher station of life , and had had more money at their disposal , and could have carried their case before another house , tliey would not have been transported . ( Cries of , " Oh , oh ' . " ) He was only speaking of what was the opinion of the petitioners ; and he assured the house that this impression universally prevailed . It would be in the recollection of the house that the question

    to have been considered in another place would have been one of a legal and technical character ; and it was generally believed , that if carried there theresuit would have been altogether different . The house would remember the decision which was given on ' technical grounds , in another case within the last year ( hear , hear ) , and the opinion of the petitioners was , that Frost , Williams , and Jones , would have been equa lly fortunate it" the same appeal had . been made . Now what were the circumstances under which the petitioners addressed the house ? Was there commotion—was theic sedition abroad ? Nothing of the sort . This was the very period for the Secretary of State exercising his discretion . But thespecch swhieh had beendelivercdtit in ni'u t

    » 1 Do Not Deny To This House The Com Pe...

    had thrown new difficulties in the way ; lor lie found in that house the bitterest enemies of Frost , Williams , and Jones—the bitterestenemies of mercy . Did hon . gentlemen remember that the workingclasses had no representatives in that house ? Were they aware that millions were addressing that house asking for the lilierty of men whom they conscientiously believed were unlawfully transported . ( Cno » of " Oh , oh ! " ) That was their impression , was there never to be any concessions to popular opinion in that . house ? Were they resolved , because the working-people were excluded from being represented in that house , to treat their petitions with indifference , contempt , and scorn ? ( Hear , hear . ) In his opinion they would endanger the existence oflthe constitution of this country by such a course of proceeding , for what must the people think when they find that the bitterest enemies of Frost , Williams , and Jones were

    discoverable in that house ? He considered that the Home Secretary was in a great measure relieved from his responsibility by the speeches of the hon . members for Oxford , Bute , and Edinburgh ; and he really hoped that if his letters were always to be followed by such postscripts as they had been that night , the lion , gentleman would never write again . ( Laughter . ) He begged the right hon . gentleman again to consider the case , with reference to ihe legal objection which was taken by the judges , and to bear in mind that the law of this country always maintained the principle , that wherever a doubt arose in the case of a prisoner , that individual was entitled by lawto the full benefit of that doubt . ( Hear , hear . ) Mr . Hums , referring to an observation of Mr . D'lsraeli , denied that any of those who had been convicted of high treason in Canada had been since rewarded with offices and honours .

    herd J . Manners and Sir T . Wilde rose together , but , in obedience to the general calls for the former , sir T , Wilde gave way , and Lord J . Manners proceeded to address the house . The noble lord commenced by observing , thai , in spite of the speech just delivered by the hon . member for Finsbury ( Mr . Wakley ) , in which the hon . member had stated that the continuance of the discussion could come to no good , and as it had been stated that the petitions of the people who had no representative in that house were treated with scorn and indifference , he wished to interpose a very few observations before the house came to a division on the question now before it . lie ( Lord J . Manners ) thought that the whole tone of the present debate must serve to convince , not only persons in the house but also out ot doors , that there existed no indisposition on the part of the present House of Commons to listen calmly , fairly , and dispassionately to the eases submitted bv

    those classed , who it was said had no direct representatives in the house . The noble lord , after defending Sir II . Inglis from the charge of cruelty , said the object for which he had risen was to express his regret at a considerable portion of the eloquent speech of the hon . gentleman the member for tlie city of Edinburgh . ( Hear , hear . ) lie ( Lord Julia Manners ) knew not whether there was anything peculiar in the construction of his mind , but he must say that he never heard historical Whigism brought to the attack of modern Chartism , but his judgment was shaken by the feeling of great inconsistency . ( Hear , hear . ) In the very speech itt which the right hon . gentleman had so eloquently denounced the crime of which those men , Frost , Williams , and Jones had been convicted , the right hon . gentleman had attempted to find something in the shape of an excuse and sympathy for the Duke of Monmouth ' s rebellion . ( Loud cries of " Hear . " )

    Mr . Magavley . —The noble Jord will excuse me . What I said was this , that if the severity of the punishment in this case had resembled the ' severity of the punishment by which Monmouth ' s rebellion had been put down , that then I thought there might be some ground for Parliament to interfere . _ Lord J . Mannk-rs thought there was but a very little difference between them . In the case of" the Duke of Monmouth ' s rebellion the sentence was that the rebels should be hanged , drawn , and quartered , the sentence on Frost , Williams , and Jones was , that they should be hanged , drawn , and quartered , while the particular punishment carried out was , that the rebels in the former case were transported to the plantations , while Frost , Williams , and Joues

    had been transported to the colonies . He ( Lord J . Manners ) thought the right hon . gentleman had not by his explanation made any material difference m respect to his case , The right hon . gentleman had asked the house to look at the motive which had induced Frost to set himself up and to levy war against her Majesty . What was Frost , it was asked ? A liiiendraper who wished to become a dictator , had been the reply . Now , he ( Lord John Maimers ) could not forget that the house , by its vote on a former occasion , had determined to make celebrated the name of Hampden . And who was he but a private gentleman , who also levied war against the constituted authorities of the kingdom ? But it was said that the cause in which Hampden had been engaged

    was genuine , while that of Frost was not . This was a mere question of opinion . There were many who thought the cause in whicn Frost had engaged was a legitimate cause , but still did that impression change the state of things ? He ( Lord John Manners ) had no doubt that many hon . members would not hesitate to vote in favour of the election in the new Houses ol Parliament of a statue of Oliver Cromwell . ( Hear , hear . ) It was quite competent for them to do so , but what he ( Lord J . Manners ) dcprecuted was these attempts to palliate rebellion in or . e age —( hear)—these efforts to honour the conduct of a regicide in another , and then to deal harshly with those who have excited rebellion in modern times . This , lie thought tobe a dangerous and fatal course of policya course of policy to which he could never lend himself ; and therefore , as he was prepared to oppose

    any propositions such as those to which hehad alluded , so lie thought ho was justified in not voting tor the motion now submitted to the house by the hon . member for Finsbury . ( Hear , hear . ) Before lie sat down , he must say that he was not disposed to look at the crime of Frost as one altogether without foundation , for he believed there had never yet been a popular insurrection which had not some great evil lying at the bottom —( hear , hear)—and he thought that if the house would attend more to the social and moral condition of the people , and less to tlie philosophical and politico-economical notions which at present were so much discussed , the legislature would be laying for the future a better and more enduring foundation for those great institutions of the country which that wicked and criminal attempt went to subvert . ( Cheers . )

    Sir It . Puel—There has been no speech delivered in this house to-night which has more confirmed my previous impressions as to the evil consequences ot discussing , in a popular assembly like that in which wc are met , the exercise of the prerogatives of the Crown , than the speech which has recently been addressed to the house by the hon . colleague of the hon . gentleman who has brought forward the present motion . ( Hear , hear . ) The lion , gentleman has said that a very strong impression pervades the minds of millions of our fellow subjects that the

    sentence in the case before us is illegal , and that if the parties had been wealthy , and had been able to carry the case to the House of Lords , they would have been treated with a very different degree of mercy . Now , il the question was merely as t » the legality of the sentence , neither house of Parliament could interfere , even on the petition of millions of the subjects of the realm . It was for men high and eminent as legal authorities to state the case to the Crown—the Crown then to take the best legal advice within its power , and to see whether there was auv flaw—anv

    informality , or want ot technicality in the conviction , entitling the party to a remission of sentence . ( Hear , hear . ) The hon . member asked , is there tu be no concession to popular feeling ? Certainly not , if that popular fueling be altogether erroneous . ( 11 ear , hear . ) If the expression of the opinions of millions be unjust and erroneous , this house ought to resist it by whatsoever number that opinion might be expressed . The question then is , in the first place—is the popular expression ou this question correct or not ? 1 say it is decidedly incorrect . ( Hear , hear . ) 1 do not found that opinion on any judgment of my own , but upon the recorded sentence of tho highest legal authorities . What was the decision of tlie fifteen judges as delivered by a man of all others—no , 1 will not

    say , of all others—but a man more cautious , more forbearing , or more disposed to give a prisoner every advantage , never sat on a bench . I allude to Chief Justice Tindal . ( Hear , hear . ) The opinion of the fifteen judges was , that the delivery of the lists to the prisoners , however well intended , with a view to giving them every advantage , was in point oi" law , not good . It was , on the other hand , urged Iliac the objection to the informality of delivery was not taken at the right time . Suppose it . had been , would the effect have been a remission of the sentence—the delivery of the prisoners from all punishment '• * Not at all . The establishment of that objection would only have postponed the trial , in order that the Crown might correct the informality . The result of

    the judges decision was , that the conviction was , ou the wholc . quitegood , and that the Crown had a right under it to carry into effect the capital sentence of tho law . If 1 am correctly stating the decision of the judges , the impression of the millions alluded to by the lion , member is entirely erroneous ; and , if xo , nothing could be more subversive of the first principles of law and order than that this house should defer to a popular opinion , founded on erroneous grounds . Alter arguing at some length on the point of prerogative , and the impolicy of such discissions on a popular assembly , Sir Hubert tonic up the facts of the case . Why , what was the case of Frost 1

    He was a man of propert y—a man of intelligencea man who stood in a peculiar relation to the Crown , having been entrusted with the commission for the preservation of the peace . It is the inconvenience attending such discussions as this , that involves the bringing of the circumstances of the case before the house , though the very fai-t of doing so on the Part Of tlto Ministers of tlie Crown appears to show an inclination not to advise the Crown to a lenient exercise of its power . But what were the facts of this case ? A magistrate makes au attack on a peacablc town , at the head of a body of aimed men , which attack was to bo the signal for a general insurrection throughout the north ; the bridge waste

    » 1 Do Not Deny To This House The Com Pe...

    be blown up ; the mail was to bestop . cd , the stoppage of the mail being intended as an indication to Birmingham that Newport was iu postcssion ot rebels against the authority of the Crown . That is the case in which , after the parties have undergone - six years' imprisonment , the House of Commons is asked to come forward with a petition to ihe Crown tor the exercise of its prerogative of mercv . I should deprecate the establishment of a precedent of this kind . 1 am convinced this is not the piaec in which to discuss the case of prisoners suffering the sentence

    of the law . 1 » ihe lion , gentleman , acting upon the dictates of his own good sense , thinks ( it not to provoke a division on this subject , wed and good ; but I hope lie will excuse me if 1 distinctly state that I cannot invite him to spare us the pain of a division by entering into any engagement whatever , either expressed or implied , with respect to the future exercise of the prerogative of the Crown . I agree with my rig ht hon . friend that tin ' s must be left to the decision of the Crown itself , and I do not think it wise to deprecate cither discussion or division by holding out any expectations w Uiitevcr ou that subject . motion

    Mr . M . Piiiuira should vote against this , if it were pressed to a division . At the same time he wished it to be distinctly understood , that in so doing lie was not treating with scorn the petitions ot the people . After a short speech from Mr . P . Ilowann against the motion , Lord J . Russkli . rose for tho purpose of pointing out the impolicy of entering into discussions on the exercise of the prerogative of mercy by the Crown in the House of Commons . It was impossible to discuss a motion for the remission of punishment without entering into a history nf the crime for which it was inflicted . One side wotiul state all the cii

    cuiiistances calculated to extenuate , and tho other all the details which were likely to aggravate , the crime , lie assured tho house that , except for iv difference of opinion among the judges , the Secretary ot State for the Home Department , at the time of these trials , saw no reason why the sentence of death should not he carried into execution . In consequence « V that difference of opinion among the judges , the llmno Secretary had deemed it necessary to consult his colleagues , and the 1 esuit was notorious to the world . lie should vote against litis million , because he was convinced that all the circumstances of this c ; . se would be more impartially considered by thcMinisteis of the Crown than by any other tribunal .

    Lord 1 * . Eueuto . n took the same view of the ques tion . _ Mr . Du . vco . vijk replied . He felt that great responsibility bavins been thrown upon him , ho was entitled , in justification of himself , to make a lew observations . One would suppose from what had been . said in the course 6 f this debate that no question of this sort had ever been submitted to the house before . The hon . member for Manchester had expressed nis virtuous indignation against the parties whose cause iie ( Mr . Duneombe ) was endeavouring to pruniwte ; but why did not the hon . gentleman exhibit tins indignation when the hon . and learned nu-nibt-r for Bath brought forward Iii-s motimi for the purdou of the Canadian rebels ? Nothing was then said .-iiioufc

    usurping the prerogative of the Crown . Tlie ri ; ht lion , baronet dad said that nothing was so wrong as to discuss such a question as this ; but why , he would again ask , was any such discussion allowed in reference to Canada ? There was a , distinct understanding between the hon . and learnul member for Hath and the government . ( Hear , hear . ) Tlie lion , and learned gentleman said— "My clients will be re * leased , and I shall not he obliged to truu ' iie tiie house . " Everybody knew that the Canauian prisoners would be released , and they were released . All he ( Mr . Duneombe ) asked was * that the same weight and measure should be meted out to the individuals whose cause fie now advocated , lie considered himself to have been unfairly treated bv the hon .

    memliei' for . Bute , who had entered into tiie merits of the case of these parties , lie ( Mr . Umicombe ) did not rest his appeal upon the merits i . f the case at all . lie said at the outset , that neither he nor the petitioners whose petitions he had presented , attempted to justify the crime of the parties ; but he did say that they had endured sufficient punishment for the offence tliey had committed , and that their conduct had been most exemplary in the colony to which they had been c-ent . It was said there was ' no public sympathy—no mil from the people for any relaxation of punishment ; but those who said so must be ignorant on the subject . He called their attention to a petition presented by him , praying for the pardon of Frost , Williams and Jones , and signed by 31 , 000 inhabitants of Leeds , including Dr . Hook , the

    vicar , the chainwan , vice-chairman , and twelve of the guardians of the poor . The evidence on which the mew were convicted , it was supposed by some , depended on the testimony of a government spy . Be that as it might , he , however , wished not to strip the laurel . from the brow of ihe magistrate , whose wounds were made so much the subject of commiseration . Those wounds notwithstanding , he believed , were not of so frightiul an extent , and amounted only to a cut finger , from which the worthy m . ' . gistrato might have escaped if not for his praiseworthy exertions to unbara window ,. in doing which the glass broke and inflicted the wound cumplained of . ~ Nothing he had heard during the debate changed his opinions , and in respect to the feelings of a generous people , he felt himself called on to take the sense of the hou . se on the question .

    Mr . C . O . MofioAX begged to correct that portion of the honourable member ' s statement which referred to the wound of Sir Thomas Phillips , lie could assuie the honourable member that instead ot a cut finger from broken glass , Sir Thomas received a gun-shot wound in tlie hand when-in the act of opening the window to call for military aid .

    The house then divided—For the motion 31 Against ]« Jt > Majority against the motion IC-5 On the motion of Mr . Nkwhucatb , a select committee was appointed to inquire into the facilities afforded to vexatious objections and fraudulent claims under the present system of" registration of county voters for the election of members of Parliament . Tlie other orders of the day were then disposed of , and the house adjourned . HOUSE OF COMMONS-Wkdsesday , March 11 . The house met at twelve o ' clock .

    FRIENDLY SOCIETIES 1 ULL . Tlie FricudJySocictii's Dill went through Committee pro forma , it having been arranged between Sir James Graham , Mr . Diuicumbc , and other hon . members , most immediately concerned in its progress , that with a view to the consolidation of certain clauses , the further consideration of the bill should be postponed for a fortnight .

    HOMAN CATHOLIC RELIEF DILL . Mr . B . Escmtt moved the second reading of the Roman Catholic Relief Bill . A measure of a similar nature had already been introduced into the House of Lords by the Lord Chancellor . The provisions of his lordship ' s bill , however , did not entirely correspond with the provisions of the bill before the house ; but as the character of ihe two were identical , it might be preferable to consolidate then ) , and form out of them one measure , lie detailed at some length the grievances still suffered by persons professing the ltumau Catholic faith wiihiu the United Kingdom ; such , for instance , as inability to practice in the ecclesiastical courts , or to teach , unless upon taking an oath , which was repulsive to many conscientious individuals . These inconveniences were acutely felt by numbers upon whom they pressed ,

    Sir Kor . Kitx Ixcias was anxious to return to the practice of the Augustan age in England in reference to religious matters . Thatpiaetiee was wholly irrecoiicileable with the contents of the bill to fore the house , which appeared to bo based upon ( he legislation of ' 18-P , and succeeding yeais—the dark ages , as tliey might be called , in this country . No practical grievance had been substantiated Oy Mr . L ' scott ; for as for what he had stated about tiie obstructions in the way of Roman Catholics teaching , they were notoriously unreal , as any person loi ^ ht have a license granted upon application to the Bishop ol his diocese . The present measure would in cll ' ect repeal the Act of Supremacy , as well as the law for the expulsion cf the Jesuits , lie moved that the bill be read that day six months .

    Lord Moiu'etu referred to various provisions in the existing law which the bill before the house would annul as practically inoperative , though not on that account undeserving legislative notice . The statute against preaching , for instance , wns notoriously iiifcllective , the obnoxious doctrines being promulgated without let or hindrance in all parts of the land . Still that enactment , while it remained upon the statute-book , might be applied to a malicious purpose , and so of others ol" a like kind . He urged upon the house to abolish all such restrictions as those against which this bill was diverted ; ami as England was the asylum of political refugees , so let it bo also the haven lor persons of every variet , ; of religious belief . Mr . Ki . nch opposed the bill .

    Sir Jamks Graham professed his readiness to support the second reading of the bill , though he cor . , sidered there were some parts of it which should bo altered in committee . It was but a measure for the completion of the act of 1 S 2 P—nnact which had his oAi-dinl concurrence at the lime , and to the principle of which he still subscribed . Mr . Wysk repudiated , as a Roman Catholic , tho tonot which Air . Finch had vouveseutod as a y ; u t of the Catholic creed , viz ., that the Pope has supremo dominion in temporal mutters . However such a

    doctrine might have obtained in the dark ages , it held 110 ground now , either here or in professedly Roman Catholic States . After a speech , in opposition , from Air . Colqnhouu , Mr . O'Cox . nhli . explained that anr . ile freedom was aflovded iu U \ v & COWm-Ty \ fi > pWSWia Mho haVi IYKhTVWv the conventual garb to abandon their profession , if at any time tliey chose . He then defended the cha . racier of the Jesuits , allirming that they had in all ages been conspicuous for their learning and piety , and had effected more fur the interests ol h eraturc than had been performed by any other 0 < wy of men .

• Citation
  • Northern Star (1837-1852), March 14, 1846, page 7, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/ns2_14031846/page/7/