On this page
- Departments (2)
-
Text (7)
-
the * the But that the with to the ^ _-*...
-
Impm'al #arltammt ^^
-
¦"£ Earl of Boden, in presentins alarge ...
-
HOUSE OF COMMONS, Fiupat, Aran, 18. Afte...
-
ABEiurfiEN.—A meeting of those holding c...
-
Printed by DOUGAL M'GOWAN, of 17, Gruat Windmill* tfl
-
street, Haymarfcet, in thc City of "West...
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
-
-
Transcript
-
Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
Additionally, when viewing full transcripts, extracted text may not be in the same order as the original document.
The * The But That The With To The ^ _-*...
_^ __ - _* , THE NORTHERN STAR ,: Apbil 26 ? 1845 _^ .. I I * _ja _*^^^^^^ _M _**^*<^ r * 1 ' llllttltll ' llllllll , lll , llllllll _***^**^^^ _S _^^— ' . ¦ .. ' _.-.-. * ' ..- ' - _¦ -. - - ¦ _¦^¦¦' " - * 1 _* 1
Impm'al #Arltammt ^^
Impm al _# _arltammt _^^
¦"£ Earl Of Boden, In Presentins Alarge ...
¦ _" £ Earl of _Boden , in presentins _alarge numher of * _S _»^ _t _»* Kr _* _ss _Sestau _^ t at that _eonege , with a vxewto _^ certain if they were such as should receive encouragement from the State . . _loraiiTTELTOs _' s Ml for the purpose of empowering _ftefemflies of persons iflled through the negligence of others to recover compensation in damages at the hands of a jury was read a second time , and referred to a committee to ' consider of some alterations wliich the lord Chancenor beKeved to be requisite before it conld pass the
house . Some other business was disposed of , and their lordships adjourned . ToesdaTj April 22 . Upon Lord Dalhoosie ' _s moving the third reading of ihe Land Clauses Consolidation Bill , Lord Brougham renewed , at much length , the ohj ections he has often urged to the constitution of the Railway Department of the Board of Trade , which , as he contended , had frustrated any advantage which , might have heen expected from the
establishment of such a tribunal , and increased and exaggerated all the evils it -was intended to prevent He complained , too , of theundue favour shown by Parliament to rsilway speculations % and would havepreferred that it should , as in France , have taken the -whole subject into its hands , and greatly restricted the number of railroads to be undertaken , instead of affording , by measures like that at present before the House , every possible facility to railway _legation , andremoving every difficulty by which the exercise of the extreme powers of companies against individuals had been hitherto obstructed . He gave some
instances of the hardships to which small proprietors were exposed , and announced Ms intention of proposing a clause by which some of the " systematized " injustice " lately introduced would be obviated . Lord _Daxhotjsie declined to enter again npon a discussion of the constitution of the "Railway Board , or the amount , or the evils of railway speculation ; and contented himself with giving a positive contradiction to most of the allegations with which Lord Brougham ' s speech had abounded . The reports ofthe railway committees would
prove whether those ofthe Board were useless or not He contended that it was absolutely necessary for the formation of railways , that such powers as the present bill "bestowed , of taking compulsory possession of land for the sake of materials , and of deviating from the intended line where it was found expedient , should be granted ; and _denied that there was not ample security against oppresrion , and sufficient means of recovering fhe fullest compensation . The power of making deviations was especiaUy necessary , as companies were not allowed previously to survey fhe line .
Lord AoHberton consoled Lord Dalhousie for the reflections which had been made on the Board over which he so ably presided , and regretted that the provisions of this bill did not apply to existing as well as to future railroads . He complained ofthe monopoly of the carrying trade on the South-Western line , and suggested that prisoners and lunatics should not be conveyed in the same carriages with other passengers . The Duke of _Beadpoet thought that the interests of the pnblic had not been sufficiently protected by the Bailway Board , and that several of their decisions had prematurely leaked ont .
Lord Winchtlsea defended the Board ; and Lord _Camp"beU also approved the bill . He complained ofthe practice on some railroads of charging high passenger fares , hut carrying goods at merely nominal rates , that they might -ruin fhe canal companies -and remarked upon the notice generally given , that the company would not be responsible for the damage done to carriages intrusted to their care , as liable to the grossest abuse . Lord Bbocchah replied , and tbe bill was then read a third time . Two clauses _, wliich Us Lordship afterwards proposed to add , met with no better fate than his opposition to the bill ; and their Lordships then adjourned .
House Of Commons, Fiupat, Aran, 18. Afte...
HOUSE OF COMMONS , _Fiupat , Aran , 18 . Afterthe presentation of a great number of petitions against the ifaynooth Bill , the adjourned debate was resumed by Mr . S . _CaAwroBD said he advocated the voluntary principle , and objected to all grants from ihe national funds to any church whatever . This grant must be viewed as a permanent endowment of a college' of the Catholic Church , to a certain extent , and it had been acknowledged by several members that it could not be expected that the endowment of the Catholic Church would stop at that endowment of the college . It was notreasonable to expect that it should do so , and it was very reasonable to expect that all other sects would claim a similar endowment Hewas of opinion that the voluntary
principle must prevail at no distant day . He was aware that the Catholic clergy had on different occasions denied that they weuld accept State grants , but he conld not but think -that while tbe Catholic clergy accepted this grant for aiaynooth , they would , on some future occasion , accept aid for themselves . The language tbat had been used by the hon . member for Cork in the Repeal Association , and by some hon . members in thehouse , was grounded on the principle of restitution . Tithes were originally in the hands of the Catholic Church , and if this grant was to be given on the principle of restitution , it might be carried so far as to restore the Church . No one was more hostile than he was to the Irish Established Church . He thought it a grievance of a monstrous character that the whole revenues , originally applied for
ecelesiastical purposes , should be monopolised in the hands of a small factionj but at the same time he was not one that would take the revenues of that Church to establish another Church . If the revenues were to be taken from ihe Church , he would demand tbat they should be appro priated to national purposes , but he never would agree -that -they should be appropriated to another Church . It was wholly contrary to the former declarations of the Roman Catholics , that they should accept of money which was extottedfioni the pockets of the people of England , as a means of supporting their religion in any way whatever ; -and most undoubtedly there never had been such perfect unanimity shown in opposition to any measure as had "been excited against that which was under discus
son ; and he contended that an extension of the civil -rights of the people of Ireland would have done much more good than any increase to the grant of Maynooth . In his opinion , it would be most degrading to the people of that country , in the manner in which it appeared it would be accepted by their leaders . He most decidedly must oppose any grant of money to any college which was of an exclusive character , and surely , if the Boman Catholic Church required that their priests should be educated in a college by themselves , it was not too-much to expect that they should maintain it themselves . Asa friend to Ireland , and as a warm friend to civil and religions liberty , he would give his vote against the second reading of fhe bill .
Lord C . _Hami-ton supported the bill , reminding the house thatthe € 00 , 000 dissenters in Ireland received no less than £ 35 , 000 of the public money , while the Boman Catholics , numbering seven millions , received only £ 9600 . On every ground of policy and justice he thought the biU should be agreed to . Mr . ilosTZ opposed the bill , because he was averse to church endowments of every description . If they wanted education , let them ask for a grant as extensive as they liked , and he would give it his ardent support . Don't let them , however , tell hiin that this was a grant for educational purposes . Education , forsooth ! Education of whom ? "Why , of a few Roman Catholic priests . ( Hear , hear . ) And who would these priests educate ? Could anv gentleman in Ireland , or elsewhere , inform him that
it was the principle and the practice of the Bomish priests to communicatefhe education wliich they received to those who were their flocks . Did they educate them in the Holy Scriptures , except upon their own plan and principle , or invite them to think for themselves ? ( Hear , hear . ) He was deeply anxious that all men should receive an education ; but one broad principle was , that he would never consent to pay for another man's religion . ( Cheers . ) The proposition now before thc house would create no satisfaction . It would disappoint the whole country , and give satisfaction to nobody . Therefore , he should oppose the paltry , pitiful measure . One extraordinary -reason which had been advanced in its support was "Eiat alleged "by the noble lord the member for "Nottinghamshire , who said that inasmuch as the Government had thought fit to hold np ihe cup of bliss to the lips of the Soman Catholics , this house was not justified in dashing it away . "What 1 were fhe House of Commons of England
—the representatives of the people—to be told by any minister that they had not the right to jndge of the measures of that minister ! No : sooner " than do that , it would "be far "better that they should at once return to their comfortable firesides , for the House of Commons would no longer be of any use—their occupation was gone . The minister might govern as a despot , and the sooner the country knew it the better . ( Cheers . ) If the people of Ireland wanted their priests to be well educated , why did they not do itthemselves ? That question had not yet been answered . It had been stated that upwards of six millions a year was spent out of Ireland by absentees . If that was the case , were the people of England to be blamed for refusing to contribute their money for the education ofthe priests f Now , the people of this country had a great feeling on this question , and he considered that they were quite right ; for there was a strong disposition existing to go over to the Catholic faith . The places of worship in connection with that
faith were much increasing , and its professors endeavoured to make proselytes wherever they could . But , though he was an advocate for religious liberty , he would not consent to pay for their support . He thought the free exercise of their religion was enough , without the people of England being called on to pay for its support out of the consolidated fund . ( Cheers . ) Mr . Neville advocated the necessity of improving the character and efficiency of the CoUege of Maynooth . "Mr . _Bellew , in supporting the bffl , denied that the _1-atiiolic priesthood were at aU desirous of endowment
- _* - *»? _£ _*? _W _? ' - _-W _- * * fl" * - hUl , said thatthe _rfM _^ rL _" ! _f _^ _Wtedwndition ofthe Protestants _££ et _£ _^ V 6 attri _* "" * _-d to their having been be . Ssi _« _z _^^ _^^^ topoWei
House Of Commons, Fiupat, Aran, 18. Afte...
Sir F . Tbench advocated the course pursued by Sir R . Peel in reference to this measure , which he warmly supported . , j Mr . Cobden had carefully examined thebiU , and could find nothing in it to justify Mr . Muntz in designating it as a trap into which the liberal members supporting the bill had faUen ; nor could he see anything to warrant the assertion that there was any intention of endowing the Boman Catholic religion , The grant appeared to be entirely for the purposes of education . The whole question resolved itself into one of £ 17 , 000 in addition to the ordinary grant of £ 9000 , and he firmly beBeved that the excitement raised against it had no parallel in the history of pettifogging persecution . He would not only support the present bill , but he would also vote for a grant for
academical institutions , provided they were to be founded on sound principles , and were to be colleges for the diffusion of useful knowledge . Like many other hon . members who meant to support the bill , he had received numerous communications informing him that he was about to give a bad vote . It would , however , be a conscientious one in favour of a people and a countiy for whose sufferings he had always felt the deepest sympathy , Mr . Ferrasd rose to support the principles profess _^ by Ministers for many years when _tJ-sy were undermining the power of their predecessors * . _.., ' , . ; ., to judge the Conservative party ' ¦' , " .. ' . ' ' _*"¦ mouths , and to ask the people of Great Brit . ' . _* _** - _* : _* . of Ireland to call upon their Sovereign to diss- . .. _, present Parliament , and to give them an 6 p - _* _' . _«* - , , ' : ' , '; _„ _, ¦
of having their sentiments honestly and sine "'; , , , presented in that house . He read the declai _* _.- ; made by several of the present Ministers at the u . general election , in -which they boasted that they had saved the Church of England from its open enemies , and its still more dangerous and insidious foes ; and contended that there was now one universal cry throughout the land , that those Ministers were the insidious foes of that church to wliich they pledged themselves to be zealous and faithful sentinels . He also quoted several extracts from the Tamwerth manifesto , to show that Sir R . Peel had , pledged himself to principles diametrically opposite to those of the party which he had deprived of power . By those pledges he had entered
upon office with a majority of jninety-one—had filched power from Lord John Russell—and had filled the country with hope that he would , io use Ins own words , " walk in the light of the British constitution . " He asked whether this bill was concocted in the light , or in the darkness of the British constitution ? He next referred to the speech made by Sir ft . Peel , in 1829 , npon introducing the Catholic Relief Bill , for the purpose of showing that he had then promised thathe would give no sanction , and show no favour to any religion but that which was incorporated with the State . Had Sir R . Peel adhered to that pledge ? He also read an extract to prove that Sir Robert Peel had at the same _ti-mn nrovided that the title of Archbishop and
Bishop should not be assumed by the prelates of the Roman Catholic Church ; and showed that he had -violated his own provision by the _lfth' and 18 th clause of the Bequests Act , which he contended was a violation of the Act of Settlement , and a contravention of the oath of supremacy . He insisted that ihe great Tory party had received no benefit _^ from the accession of its leaders to power , but that it had been continually deceived and betrayed by them . He applied to them fhe character which Lord Stanley had applied to then * predecessors in office * . — " They had conceded one day measures which they deemed mischievous the day before , and had thus alienated their party , until they found themselves compeued , from sheer weakness , to throw themselves into the arms of men from whom they essentially differed , and whose course of action they believed to be most prejudicial .
He asked Ministers , where was theirfornier majority now , and replied that they would find when they went to a division that the larger portion of then * former supporters would be arrayed against them . He called on Sir Robert Peel as a man of honour to go overatonce to Lord J . Russell , andnottodraghisparty any longer through the kennel of apostasy . He complained of the manner in which Sir James Graham had introduced the name of her Majesty into this discussion , and read to him the lecture which Lord F . Egerton gave some years ago to Sir J . C . Hobhouse for a similar unconstitutional proceeding . He concluded by declaring his belief , as a sincere Protestant , that if her Majesty should be induced by the present Government to put her signature to tliis bill for the endowment of the Roman Catholic College of Maynooth , she would sign away her right and title to the British throne .
Mr . Sheil adverted to the fact that the Catholics of Ireland had always aided the dissenters to get rid of their disqualifications , yet to the dissenters , the _Wesleyan dissenters , it was , thatthe agitation against this measure of concession to the Catholics was to be attributed . They were always foremost in the unchristian , because uncharitable , endeavour to keep alive fanatical resentment against their Catholic fellow-countrymen . -Hewas not much surprised at their pursuing such a course , but he confessed he was surprised by seeing the same course adopted by the Free Church of Scotland . He would not enter into the benefits of the present measure , but would call the attention of thc house to the evils likely to follow its rejection . The dissenters of England
and Scotland would rejoice ; but he warned them that in another Parliament they would find that the union with Ireland , called by courtesy the United Kingdom , could never be maintained . No one could doubt that its rejection would give an extraordinary impulse to repeal agitation ; not because the Irish people would care about the rejection ofthe measure _^** se , but because it would afford proof to demonstration of the fact that Ireland could not hope to be justly legislated for by England . It would , in that case , appear that the Catholics of Ireland were to be governed , not by the members of the Established Church , but by the fanaticism of the Baptists , thelndependents , _* and the "Wesleyan Methodists ; and they might rely upon it there would be
found people in Ireland who would tell that country that even fife itself could no longer be tolerable under circumstances so degrading . He appealed to the house whether , not only this measure , but even ulterior ones of a similar character , were not preferable to a civil war ; not thathe anticipated such a result from the rejection of this measure alone , but it was scarcely wise to risk even the remotest possibility of a calamity so full of horrors . Mr . Law spoke for some time against the measure . Mr . T . "Duncombe opposed the measure , and was at a loss to know what answer could be given to the petitioners against it , numerous as they were almost beyond precedent . He wished to put one or two questions to the house and the Government ; not any
inquisitive or impertinent ones , such as had been put by the hon . member for Northamptonshire . ( Hear , hear , from Mr . O'Brien , and great laughter . ) He was not going to ask whether if the noble lord the member ior London had brought in the present bill they would have opposed it . He believed that they would have burned the noble lord and the Pope in effigy in every part of the country , ( Hear , hear . ) He would not ask them whether if they had brought that bill in their hands to the hustings they would have been here to-day to tell the tale . ( Cheers . ) He would not ask these questions , and for the best of all reasons , as the right hon . gentleman the recorder would tell them that no man was bound to criminate himself ( laughter ); but he should like to ask whether
these innumerable petitions that had been presented to the house were to be treated as so much waste paper ? ( Hear , hear . ) Were they or were they hot a representative assembly : and , he would ask them , could they point out an instance in which so many , sp numerously signed , and so honestly and respectably signed a mass of petitions had been presented against any measure ? He asked them , did they suppose that it would be an answer to these petitions for gentlemen to get up there and merely say they blamed the ministers for their duplicity and inconsistency , and then to vote for this bill ? ( Hear , hear . ) He was surprised at the gratitude that some of the Irish members had displayed for this miserable , this paltry and beggarly grant . ( Hear , hear . ) He had understood
before Ithe proposition was made that the Roman Catholics disdained to be the liveried lacqueys of the state —( cheers ) , but it appeared that they were now ready to prostrate themselves before the golden image wliich the right hon . baronet had set up . ( Renewed cheers , and cries of "No , no . " ) His lion _, friend near him said " no . " He hoped the Irish people would also say " no . " If the people of Ireland and their leaders were so grateful for this boon—if their hearts were overflowing with the immensity of then * gratitude , why did not their representatives come there and tell them so ? ( Hear . ) They heard it not from their representatives , but they heard it from those who originally held office under the Whigs , and who nowappcaredto be
_nlavincextremely well into the hands of the Tories . ( Great cheering . ) Now , he wanted to hear , not by the newspaper reports , but here in this house , and in the face of the commons of England , that this was considered by the people as a great boon for whicli Ireland would be fbr ever grateful , and that repeal would begiven up . ( Hear , hear ) . There was onc other question as regarded these petitioners . Did tlicy think that it would be an answer to them , to say that they could not refuse their consent to this bill , because the rejection of it would carry with it the loss ofthe Eresent ministers ? Did they think that that would e a complete answer to the people of England ? Now , however much the right hon . gentlemen opposite might flatter themselves upon their own peculiar
merits , he could assure them they were " grossly deceived in regard to this impression . ( Hear , hear , 1 laughter . ) He could tell them that the people of Eng land would not break their hearts if the loss of this measure carried also with it the loss of the present administration ( renewed laughter ) . He wanted to know what was to be done with this bill ? Was this enormous mass of petitions to be treated with perfect contempt , and merely as so much waste paper ? ( Hear , hear . ) He strongly recommended thehouse to look about it . ( Cheers . ) He did net think that they could play tricks with the people . He did not think that this house was sufficiently respected by the people , as to permit them to act as they thought proper in respect to this bill . ( Hear , hear . ) He didnot think that they could withimpunity refuse their acquiescence to the wishes of the
House Of Commons, Fiupat, Aran, 18. Afte...
people . ( Hear , hear . ) He believed that there never was any Parliament or House of * Commons so hated and detested . ( Laughter . ) And he thought that if they persevered with this measure against the declared opinions of the people , they would rue the day for their temerity . ( Cheers . ) No , they could not believe it any more than the right hon . gentleman opposite would believe , but that the people would break their hearts Jf they retired from office . ( Loud laughter . ) Depend upon it that if they did not take care some day or another , those rotten walls would be made to rattle about tlieir ears . Notwithstanding all those charges of intolerance and bigotry—notwithstanding their alleged desire to perpetrate injustice—which charges were levelled against those who opposed this bill—in the face of all these allegations , which he knew to be as unfair as they were unfounded , he woud resist this bill as long as it remained upon the
table ofthe house . ( Cheers . ) Lord J . Russell _f"M , after the numerous letters he had received frn- ' ¦ •• "'S , _** _nustituents , he could not consent to give 1 ; ' " m opposition t « the sentiments of a grea . - .- - - tnem » and in favour of the measure of the i-.. _w ' . '"ent » without stating the reasons which gun ' _^ ' £ ' - . j _* 5 s decision . The noble lord resorted to in . ' / ofthe arguments already adduced in the course of the debate hy other _honourable ¦ _'i ' _-Vubers , id alluded to the smallness of the grant - : ' / aynooth , which , hi the aggregate , did riot exceed ' V - _"eniiO of three of the Irish prelates of the Y ' endowed Established Church . Unless they '" " - '; \ _prepared to carry out the spirit in which the ;; , ' .-o Maynooth was first established , they must . common justice , go back to the Repeal of the Union , and restore to Ireland her parliament . Under these feelings the petitions on the table , however
numerous , could not induce him to vote against the bill , while the object he held in view was truth , freedom , and justice . He had little to gain by the course he was pursuing . Ho would lose the favour ofthe dissenters , wliile the gratitude ofthe Catholics would , according to the ordinary course of nature , be given to those who had the power to serve them , rather than to those who had the will witliout the power . He complained not of this , but he was prepared to legislate for the benefit of the community , without reference to the feelings which might be created personally towards himself , and , therefore , it was that he was now prepared to vote in opposition to the numerous petitions upon the table . Sir R . _Lvgijs opposed tho monsuro on tho ground , that he believed it would ultimately lead to the endowment ofthe Roman Catholic Church . .
Sir R . Peel said , many of the opponents of the mea sure , on his side of the house , had felt themselves called upon to adopt that course , utterly regardless of consequences , in the exercise of a conscientious duty . lie honoured them for this , however he might regret the loss of their support . On the other side of the house , also , there were numerous examples of gentlemen equally ready to risk all their own personal interests with their constituents in order to support a measure which they believed calculated to benefit the public . At the same time the house must believe tliat nothing but a sense of duty could induce the Government to risk everything by proposing a measure such as that which was on the table . The right hon . baronet then went on to state the grounds upon which Government had proceeded in bringing the bill before the house . So soon as they had quelled the agitation in Ireland , in 1813 , and vindicated the
law , they felt that then was the time , when it could not be said they were actuated by fear , to take the whole condition of Ireland into consideration with a view to its improvement . The effect of their very first measure , the Charitable Bequests Act , was to break up the formidable combination which existed between the clergy , laity , and physical strength of Ireland . Such a result ; gave ample encouragement to persevere in the same course , and hence the proposition for endeavouring , in the spirit of kindness , to place Maynooth upon a footing more consonant to the requirements of the Irish people . The miserable stipend of £ 9000 a year was insufficient to allow of any other than theological education , and that theology was obliged to be confined to polemics . Was itright that this state of things should be continued ? or what principle was violated by rendering the students ahd professors more comfortable 1 He believed it to be for the interests
of peace , good order , and even for the benefit of the Protestant religion , to make such arrangements as would result in committing the religious education of . the people to | men grateful tothe Government for its liberality , instead of to men smarting . under the miserable grant hitherto allowed to Maynooth . This measure was alone , and stood entirely on its own merits . It was no part ot any ulterior plan for' endowing the Catholic clergy , nor was it intended to facilitate endowments hereafter . He would even say lie saw great difficulty in the way of endowment . The Catholic clergy and laity declined endowment , and the demonstrations against it on the part of the people of England were such as to render it extremely difficult if he had it in contemplation , which he had not . But atthe same time he would not place any future Government in the difficult position ofbeing told thathe ( Sir It . Peel ) had said those difficulties were utterly
insuperable . It was sufficient to say he did not contemplate endowment , but the hon . baronet had no right to call upon him to say that the existing difficulty would remain always insuperable . He would not refer tothe taunts of Mr . Macaulay he would prefer to follow the example of Lord John Bussell , and refrain from everything that could create any but kindly feelings . He warned the house that they must break up formidable combination in Ireland against the British Government . He did not think they could break up that combination by force , but it might be broken up by doing justice to the people . When he found it necessary to refer some time back to a cloud wliich seemed lowering in the west , and to declare that England had rights and was prepared to maintain them , it gave him great consolation to reflect that on the previous day he had sent a message of peace to Ireland . The right hon . baronet resumed his seat amidst general cheers .
The house then divided—For the second reading ... ... 823 . Againstit ... _••• 17 e Majority for Ministers 147 The house then adjourned .
HOUSE OF COMMONS , Monoay , April 21 . Mr . T . Doncombe brought forward a motion to rescind the llth section of Standing Order No . 87 , whicli requires committees on railway bills to make a special report of the reasons wliich induce the committee to adopt or reject the recommendations of the Board of Trade . His object in propounding this motion was , that the house might come to a distinct understanding ofthe relation in which it stood with respect to the Board of Trade , whose decisions had given great and general dissatisfaction . Sir G . Cr , EBK defended the reports of the railway department of the Board of Trade , which reports , he believed , gave very general satisfaction . He opposed the motion as being altogether unnecessary , After speeches from Mr . Labouchere , Mr , Gladstone , Mr . Gisborne , and Colonel Sibthorpe ,
Mr . Behnal said he did not think that Mr . Duncombe ' s resolution would effect the alterations which he deemed requisite , and he , therefore , moved as an amendment an address to the Crown , praying that all papers ofthe Board of Trade relating to railways should be laid before the house , and that parties interested might be furnished with copies at their own expense . Lord _Howicl * : seconded the amendment , After some further discussion Mr . Duncombe replied , and withdrew his motion , in order to make way for the amendment of Mr . Bernal , which he was willing to adopt . The amendment was then put by the Speaker , and agreed to . THE MATNOOTH BIU . On the motion for reading the order of the day for taking into consideration the grant to the College of Maynooth ,
Sir It . Inglis opposed commencing a discussion of such importance at such a late hour as a quarter past ten o ' clock . It would be unworthy of the magnitude of the subject to press it forward at such an hour , and he must therefore persist to a division if his request of _poBtponementwere refused . Sir It . Peel said , he would not place it in tbe power of any one to say that he had hurried the measure through the house . After the manner in which it had been received by the house and by the public , he felt that it assumed a feature of vital importance . He would , however , agree to the postponement , but would at the same
time say that he was resolved to persevere , and would bring forward no other Government business until this bUl were carried through the house . He felt , however , that he was pledged to state the outline of the measure which , the Government contemplated with respect to banking in Ireland and Scotland . This he would do on Friday , but he hoped thatthe house would be satisfied to hear the plan ' and to abstain from all discussion , in which event tliey might proceed with the discussion ofthe Maynooth grant then . He would suggest taking Wednesday , if possible , for the Maynooth grant , but he had no power of precedence on that day .
Mr . Cowper , Mr . Watson , Mr . T . Duncombe , and Lord Ashley agreed to waive their precedence on Wednesday , and in consequence Sir It . Peel withdrew his motion , and fixed the ordc of the day for the committee on Maynooth for _Wednesd ay . The f -toms ( Import ) Duties Bill was read a third time ui > ' -scd . The - _-. ining business on tho paper was then disposed of , an-. houBe adjourned .
Tuesdat , April 22 . Tip use sat only for a short time , and no business of _impor . < : e was transacted . Wednesday , April 23 . The ' 'ousc met at four o ' clock .
new writ . On the motion of Mr . T . Egerton , a new writ was ordered for the election of a burgess to serve for the borough of "Woodstock , in the room of the Marquis of Blandford , who " has accepted the stewardship of the Chiltern Hundreds . Petitions against any further grant to Maynooth were presented from a great number of places and congregations by Mr . Plumptre , Mr . Mackinnon , Colonel Wood , Captain Pechell , Sir T . Heathcote , Mr . Kemble , Mr . Grogan , Mr . Gisbome , Mr . _Entwisle , Mr . S . O'Brien , Mr . Protheroe , Mr . Denison ( West Surrey ) , Mr . Batcson , Mr . T . Duncombe , Mr . Pattison , Mr . Hawes , and Sir 11 . H . Inglis .
House Of Commons, Fiupat, Aran, 18. Afte...
• ¦ Mr . 'Hrs _DL-fiV presented 111 petitions against' the Maynooth grant . " . . _
CONDITION OF THE IiABOUMNG CLASSES . Lord J . Russell said he would , oh _Monday next _,, nut the house in possession of the precise nature of the resolution he intended to move on the 1 st of May . ACADEMICAL EDUCATION IN IRELAND . Lord Ashley said , in reference to the communication made by my right hon . friend at the head of her Maieety's Government to this house last year , and also to his opening statement in introducing the _pronosal of this grant to Maynooth , I wish to ask him whether it is his intention to propose any further plan of academical education in Ireland , and if so , whether he will be good enough , either before we go into committee or immediately after , to state simply the outline of such scheme ? ' taut /
__ _, _, „ , . „ lAHO VI ** mv *** - *— » Sir R . PEEL .--I am obliged to the noble lord for having g iven me notice of this question , and I beg to state it is the intention of her Majesty ' s Government to propose other measures with regard to academical education in Ireland , irrespective of the measure before the house . It certainly was my earnest wish to proceed with this bill before any other business , but I will undertake , before the third reading , to give—or that some member of the Government shall give—a general outline of those other measures .
MATNOOTH COLLEGE . The order of the day < was read for going into committee upon the appropriation to be made from the Consolidated Fund for the College of Maynooth . On the question that the Speaker do leave the Mr . Ward rose to move his resolution , " That it is the opinion of this house that any provision to be made for the purposes of the present bill ought to be taken from the funds already applicable to ecclesiastical purposes in Ireland . " He wanted , he said , to amend this bill by grafting on it the proposition which he had just read , instead of throwing it out altogether . After getting rid of a charge of bad faith—whicli he said had been preferred against him fiwhavinerbetravcd a cause in which he had never
embarked—he proceeded to state thatthe concessions whicli ho now asked < the house to make tothe Roman Catholics of Ireland were not of grace and favour , but of right ; for he was of opinion that they were as much entitled to a Roman Catholic establishment in Ireland as the people of England were to a Protestant ' Church establishment here , or an the people of Scotland were to a Presbyterian establishment there . On the same ground on which English Protestants would object to the establishment of Presbytcrianism in England , and on which Scotch Presbyterians would object to the establishment of English Episcocacy in Scotland , had the Irish Roman Catholic reason to object to—aye , and to get rid ofthe Protestant Church establishment in Ireland , which was a symbol
ot our triumph , and a badge of their defeat and disgrace . We ought to discard all our former foul prejudices , and as we were embarking in a new course , ought to take care that we did not embark in a wrong one . As we were also acting on a progressive principle , we _ought , if we took thisetep at all , to be prepared for all its consequences , and to consider how we could settle , once for all , the just claims of Catholicism in Ireland , and so reconcile the opinions of the people of England and Scotland to it . He then viewed the opposition to this measure in three lights —first , as resting on the _voluntas principle ; secondly , as resting on religious scruples ; and then as resting on the notion , tliat the money necessary to carry it into effect ought not to be taken out of the general funds
of the nation . After showing that there was no force in any of these three classes of objection , he proceeded to contend that the house ought to accede to his amendment as containing tho only safe method of reconstructing the Church establishment of Ireland . The only obstacle to that reconstruction was the state of feeling out of doors . To that feeling no one dared to give utterance in that house ; for if any man did , it would justify a revolutiou in the land to-morrow . He then commented with great indignation on the language used by many of the petitioners—on the speech of Mr . M'Neile at Liverpool—on that of the Rev . Mr . Robinson , the rector of St . Andrew ' s , Holborn—and on those of several ministers of Dissenting congregations recently delivered in London . Such
sentiments in the mouths of Christian ministers were the abomination of abominations , and filled him with unutterable loathing and disgust . He was sorry to say that many men of mind had lent themselves to this agitation ; among others , Mr . Colquhoun , who , ten years ago , made a speech at Exeter-hall very different from the mild and gentle speech whicli he had delivered a few nights ago in that house . He then showed , that if there had been any breach of faith as to the compact made at the time of the Union , it was not on the part of the Roman Catholics , but of the British Government , as Lord Comwallis had at that time distinctly promised to the Roman
Catholics of Ireland the payment of their clergy , and as the only obstacle to the fulfilment of that promise had been the insanity of George III . Up to 1810 the King ' s health had been the sole bar to Roman Catholic emancipation ; but then the cry of "NoPopery" became a party and a political cry , and thus itwas that one after another all the benefits of the Union were lost . Now , when we were slowly coming back to the state of things forty-five years ago , and when all the statesmen in the house deserving of the name were approximating to each other , the countiy was to be kept from doing justice by the revival of this party _^ cry . He contended that the resistance to this measure
did not rest on its religious grounds . He thought that the resistance would have been less had the measure itself been larger , for at present it avowed a principle which it did not carry out , and fixeda taxation on the country which , he said , ou _^ ht to come out of other funds . The sum wanted fell short of 5656 , 000 , and fell short of that which was provided by Lord Morpeth's bill for suppressing the revenue of those parishes in Ireland where there wero less than fifty Protestants . He then showed thatthe whole income of the Scotch Church , which had 3 , 000 , 000 of souk to provide for , was £ 200 , 000 , and that the income of the Church of Ireland , which had only 800 , 000 Protestants to be provided for , was £ 650 , 000 . He argued that by a re-distribution of
this property an arrangement might be made for the erection and endowment of this College of Maynooth , without injury to any interest whatsoever . He then showed that there were 860 benefices with less than 50 Protestants in each , that then . ' income amounted to £ 58 , 000 , which sum was available for this endowment , without having recourse to any taxation on the people of England and Scotland . The Bishop ' s lands too were another fund . They had been formerly frittered away under the management of trustees ; but now that the income derivable from them had been raised from £ 16 , 000 to £ 300 , 000 a-year , thehouse would be responsible for the mismanagement of them , if some portion were not applied to educational purposes . He denied that there was any obstacle to such an appropriation in the 5 th
article of the Union with Ireland . He thought that Sir R . Peel ' s speech on Friday must have made a bad impression in Ireland , as it led to the conclusion that England ' s weakness was Ireland ' s strength , and that we would yield to force that which we would not grant to justice . He said that in bringing this amendment forward it was not so much on account ofthe money as of the principle affirmed in it . If SirR . Peel would give him the principle , he would § iv e him in return unlimited credit on the Consoliated Fund , until the re-construction of . the Church property was completed . In conclusion , he called on the house to concur with him in his amendment , as it would remove many ofthe objections to this measure , and would be indicative ofthe future course of the British Government .
Captaim M . Bebkel-et , in seconding the amendment , warned those who might be inclined to raise the cry of Church-spoliation and robbery , that they might raise by it another more mischievous cry in Ireland—namely , that of Church restoration and Church restitution . Sir T . Fbemaktle complimented Mr . Ward on his consistency in persisting in bringing forward this question through good report and evil report , but could not congratulate him on his liaving chosen an opportune period for its introduction at present . If the house should assent to his amendment , it would have to begin again all that it had hitherto done , and of that fact Mr . Ward himself seemed to be aware : for he had said that if Government would
but affirm his principle , he would then give them , as far as he was concerned , an unlimited vote of credit on the Consolidated Fund until the period when the ecclesiastical fund was able to repay it . He was obliged to inform Mr . Ward that her Majesty ' s Government could not be induced by such a bribe to sacrifice the important principle involved in his amendment . He then took an historical review of the debates on this subject , from the period when Mr . Ward brought it forward originally , down to the year 1843 , when the house was counted out upon it , for the purpose of showing that the principle for which Mr . Ward contended had made very little progress in the house ahd in the country . Whenhe first brought it forward there was a majority in its favour it was then introduced into the Tithe Compensation BUl , and was carried for two or three years afterwards as part of that bill through the House of Commons , though it was
rejected as regularly in the House of Lords ; but in the year 1838 it was left out , and Lord Morpeth and Lord J . Russell both made excellent speeches—from which he read extracts—in justification of the policv of abandoning it . This was a bill for the endowment of the Roman Catholic College at Maynooth , and he called upon the house to pass it without an _aopropnation clause for the very same reasons which induced the house to pass the Tithe Compensation Bill with a similar omission . Having spoken for some time on the _^ applicability of Mr . Ward ' s principle to this bill , he then proceeded to object to the principle itself _oecause it involved the question of appropriating of all the Church property of _' Ireland to Roman Catholic purposes . He _% ontended that the affirmation of such a principle would lower the authority of Parliament , would diminish the influence of Government and would shake the confidence of thewhole country in the _s-eurity of e _^ S _^ kind of property . He denied that Sir R . Peelhad ever
House Of Commons, Fiupat, Aran, 18. Afte...
rejected "the * argument against- the approprianon clause , founded on the fifth clause ofthe articles of Union , and was prepared to refer to the speech to which Mr . Ward had alluded , if he persisted in that declaration . He also showed , that the 24 th clause of the Catholic Relief Bill ; which provided for the inviolability of the Established Church of England and Ireland , was equally , opposed both to the appropriation clause and to tliis amendment , which was but a corollary from it . He denied that the Irish Church was the mon ster grievance of Ireland , as some contended ; and read several netitions from the Roman Catholic prelates and clergy of Ireland , to show that that neither was the feeling nor ought to be the feeling ofthe Roman Catholic population . For these and many other reasons he felt it to be his duty , onthe part of the Government of which he was a member , to meet this amendment with a decided negative . . . ¦ ' " . . . . *• . — . ¦¦__ .- J ... -i __ -4 . _^ i . _* L _. : ' . a ,,
. _ . . „ _. , Sir W . James followed on the same side , but said that it was his firm opinion that the subject of the Irish Church must , before many years elapsed , come seriously under the consideration of the house . He lamented that there should be a necessity for taking such a subject into consideration ; but he was convinced that the house could not escape from it if it retained any regard for a sense of justice . He had received many representations from his constituents to vote against this bill ; but he was compelled by feelings of duty to withhold Ms assent from their requisitions . Mi * . Milner Gibson was glad to find that Sir Walter James saw further into futurity than Sir T . Fremantle , and that he was convinced that it would be necessary before long for Parliament to take into its consideration thc state of the revenues of the
Protestant Church in Ireland . The principle fbr wliich Sir T . Fremantle had contended went the whole length of asserting , that the Church property of Ireland was so sacred that it must not he touched , even if there were not a single Protestant in Ireland ; but if that were true , how had it come to pass that the house had given 25 per cent , to the landlords of Ireland out ofthe property of the Church of Ireland by the Tithe Compensation Act and the Vestry Cess Act ? He agreed with Mr . Cobden that this question of endowing Maynooth was not a religious , but an educational one ; and he therefore felt justified in giving his support to a grant for its endowment . Even on the principles of the petitioners against this bill , he felt justified in supporting it . To make
religion a ground for not granting assistance to education at Maynooth , was to make the religion of Ireland the ground for excluding its inhabitants from civil advantages . He thought the proposition of Mr . Ward to supply funds for the education ofthe Roman Catholic priests from the funds of the Protestant Church in Ireland a just one ; and as its funds were more than sufficient to supply the spiritual wants of its congregation , he could not see wh y the house should refuse the remainder to general purposes . There was not a parallel in the world to the Protestant Church in Ireland . It was the greatest ecclesiastical enormity in Europe ; It was an Insult to the people of Ireland , and a permanent badge of their subjugation and oppression . So long as it
remamed m its present condition , he could not consider the Irish question settled , even by the two conciliatory speeches whicli had been made upon it by Sir R . Peel and Sir J . Graham . Sir John Walsh was not certain that he understood the logic of the last speaker ; but if he did , he inferred from it that Mr . Milner Gibson was opposed to Church establishments altogether . Now , he was a friend to Church establishments , and he resisted this amendment , because he considered that it struck a fatal blow , not only against the Church Establish ment in Ireland , but in this country also . He then proceeded to take a view ofthe state of society in Ireland , and ofthe policy by which Ireland had been governed for many years past . He showed that it had long been divided into two great parties , and that it
would be impossible to restore peace between them wliile you left in either of them a feeling that equal justice had not been done to both . Thedutyof the Government was to act as mediator between them , and not to take advantages from one party to give to the other . He therefore deeply regretted that Mr . Ward should have tacked his amendment on the present bill , which had been wisely introduced by Sir R . Peel as a healing measure for Ireland . What would be the effect of his success ? It would convert the olivebranch into a firebrand . He trusted that in passing this bill , followed up , as he knew that it would be , by others of a soothing effect on * the Roman Catholic population , Sir R . Peel would still consider himself irrevocably pledged to the inviolability of the Protestant Church in Ireland .
Mr . _Macaclat was anxious to explain liis views on the subject ofthe Established Church in Ireland , as he had never before had an opportunity of doing so , owing to his absence from England . The amendment of Mr . Ward opened the whole of the question whether the Protestant Church there was an institution which ought or ought not to be maintained . When the Legislature was called upon to decide whether an institution ought to be maintained , the first thing to be inquired into was , whether it was a good or a bad one . His deliberate opinion was , that the Protestant Church in Ireland was a bad , and a very bad institutionnay , more , that of all church institutions in the world that of L'eland was the most absurd and
unjustifiable . He denounced all the arguments which had been used that evening in defenee of the Church of Ireland as were shifts to evade the objections which had been urged against it . They had not heard one gentleman say , "The Church of L _* eland is a good institution—it exists for such and such purposes , and I will show that it answers those purposes . " He had never read any defence of the Church Establishment either in England or in Scotland , which was not in itself a bitter satire on that in Ireland . The travellers of every country in the world who visited Ireland declared it to be an abuse of such magnitude that nothing like it was to be found . Nowhere else , either in Europe or in America , did the Church of the minority enjoy
such exclusive privileges . In governing a Clmrcii you should not think more of five rich than of one poor man ,. but rather more of five poor than of one rich man ; and yet this was exactly what we had long been doing in Ireland . He contended that a poor , man could not have religious instruction and consolation o n the voluntary principle , because he had not funds to pay for it ; that he ought not to have it on charity , because charity was precarious , but that he ought to have it from the State as a matter of right , andnot as a matter of grace and favour , because it was important to the State that he should be well and religiously educated . All the arguments which he should use in defending the Church of England , and all the charges which he should make in assailing it , would apply with double force as an attack on the Protestant Church of Ireland ; for it reversed the text of Scripture—ifc filled the rich with
good tilings , and sent the hungry empty away . He also objected that it was a proselytising Church ; for he well recollected that some years ago , when we were abolishing a certain number of its bishops , Sir R . Inglis observed that we ought not to abolish them , for there was an expansive force in Protestantism , which would soon increase the number of its adherents , and renderthe whole number of bishops necessary . That might have been a good argument in the mouth of Cecil soon after the Reformation ; but it was wonderful to him how gentlemen of great ability could use it after this Church had existed in Ireland from 1560 to 1845 . He asked whether the Church had not been guarded during all that time by protective laws and by penal statutes , and whether it had been victorious over "the old faith , or was confined to the difficult task of defending the old Englisn pale ? Where it was 200 years ago , there that Church was still ; it had not been victorious , it had not even defended its own . If he were a Roman
Catholic , he should say that the policy of Heaven had been victorious over its worldly assailants ; but what was he , as a Protestant , to say ? What was he to think of the strange war , in which reason , backed by wealth and power , had been defeated by ignorance and superstition struggling under poverty and oppression ? Moreover , the Roman Catholics of Ireland were not mere Roman Catholics in name : their religion had a strong hold upon their hearts , and they were more devoted to it than any other Roman Catholic population in Europe . That was a succession of effect to causes ; for the Protestant Church had been quartered in a hostile country , where it could not , and did not even attempt to _. _^ do its work . _ Protestantism had gained
its triumphs in other Roman Catholic countries by means of translations ofthe bible into the vernacular tongue ; but the . Protestant Church had existed in Ireland 125 years before the bible was translated into Irish ; and then it was translated , not by the well-endowed Protestant Church , but by the great and good man , Robert Boyle . The whole of the history of this Church was of one piece . Scarcely one-tenth part of its clergy were resident ; and he quoted a well-known sentence of Swift to explain what were the occupations of its bishops in his days . They might know how the revenues of one Irish bishoprick had been squandered in their own days on the shores of the Mediterranean from the pages of Lady Hamilton ' s correspondence , whilst the Roman Catholic clergy were healing the sick and consoling the dying in the hovels of the peasantry in Ireland .
exposed to hunger , and poverty , and disease , and liable to oppression from every petty Protestant squireen . He showed that the Irish mind was not to be turned from its attachment to Catholicism by the machinery whicli the Protestant Church had provided for that purpose ; and then proceeded to show that the same machinery had been equally unsuccessful in procuring peace and harmony among the different classes of society . If , then , the Protestant Church in Ireland had not answered the end of giving religious instruction and consolation to the inhabitants of Ireland , or ; of making proselytes or of procuring the peace of society , what had it done _« If that question could not be answered , then he must be allowed to call the Protestant Church a bad in stitufion . There were , _^ however , bad institutions which you . could not rudely destroy , because thev were deeply rooted in the affections of the people .
House Of Commons, Fiupat, Aran, 18. Afte...
But was that the case with respect to the Protestant Church in Ireland ? Certainly not . Then the ques . tion which the house had to consider was _this—T what was the best mode of producing union between two countries different from each other in reli gion ? Phe History oj England afforded an useful lesson upon that point . England had long been connected with two countries differing from her in reli <* jon England had tried to force the Anglican system of religion on both . Rebellion followed in Scotland and also in Ireland . In Scotland the rebellion was successful in consequence of the leaders of it acting in concert with those of the English Parliament on matters of religion . But the restoration came , and with it the Anglican system was restored ; and then T > . _ J . J . 1 .. X * . 1 . _A _« n ' An -m ! _lV' _«; . _nn .. n i _^ _A XI .. Tl . -i .
followed twenty-eight years of such misgovermnent on the one hand and or sueh outrages on th e other as the world had scarcely ever seen exceeded . The men began to find out that institutions were made for men , and not men for institutions . Then came a wise sovereign , who listened to the just demands of the people of Scotland ; and since that time aU enmity hetween Scotland and England had ceased and the oldest man now living did not recollect the utterance of a wish for the Repeal of the Union be . tween the two countries . Would that have been the case if Scotland had been governed in the same manner in which Ireland had been governed ? or would England , if engaged in perpetual _struggles with Scotland , have ever risen to its present _grandeur *"*
_h-ntertaining tliese opinions , lie should give his sup . port to Mr . Ward ' s proposition . That proposition might be defeated now , but it would be granted before long by a Liberal Ministry from principle , and bv a Conservative Ministry from fear . Sir R . Peel had taught on Friday night an important lesson to the people of Ireland—a lesson which Ministers _oucJit to be slow to teach , because the people _weregeneraSv too prone to leam it . He had told the people of Ireland . that the only way to obtain concession from him wag by agitation . Too long had that been thc policy of England towards Ireland . He instanced this by re * ference to what had occurred in the American war , in the war of the French revolution , and subsequentlywhen Catholic emancipation was granted to prevent the possibility of a civil war . A short time
then intervened , and a Ministry was in power prepared to do justice to Ireland . Again the cry of " No Popery " was raised , and a party was raised to power which had regularly maligned all the mild policy of the Whigs towards Ireland . The country was looking for severe measures towards that country , when out came a series of conciliatory measures ; and when an explanation of the change in the Tory policy was called for , all the explanation given was that the monster meetings in Ireland were veiy formidable , and that there was an apprehension of war with the United States . Tliis concession was therefore made because Mr . O'Connell and Mr . Polk between them had made the Government of England feel very uneasy . He asked what was fo be
the end of a _policy which yielded nothing to principle and everything to fear ? The Whi gs had been taunted with servility to Mr . O'ConneU , but he defied any man to say that the late Government had ever produced any measure wliich it could not justify on principle . They thought that the revenues of the Church of Ireland might be appropriated to the general purposes of the State ; and that appropriation they had proposed and defended on principle . They thought that the repeal of the Union would be dangerous to the safet y and integrity ofthe empire , and had said upon principle that to that repeal they would never consent . His advice to the Ministry was this— " What you are prepared to grant , grant frankly ; what you are prepared to
withhold , withhold resolutely . It will not be easy to wrest it from you ; but there is a way of conceding which only excites contempt and invites exaction ; and he was afraid from the experience of thc present , that many years would not elapse before that -machinery would be put in force against the Ministry , which would compel them to grant much more | than'this paltry grant to Maynooth . His opinion was , " that if there should be a chance of rebellion in Ireland , or a war with the United States , the present Government would deal with the property of the Protestant Church in Ireland , and that Sir It . Peel would be the Minister to bring down to the house a bill framed on this motion of Mr . Ward , Some honest man might quit office rather than sup .
port such a measure ; but there would be no dif nculty in finding a successor who would change his opinions on the subject at twelve hours' notice . Sir R . Peel would then tell us that lie will not be moved by any taunts coming from the Opposition side of the house , and then the Chancellor of the Exchequer will exclaim , that as he ( Mr . Macaulay ) had foreseen the extent ofthe inconsistency of which Ministers would be guilty , it did not fall within liis province to reprove them for it . He , therefore , entered at this moment his protest against tlic practice of granting in time of danger concessions wliich you would withhold in times of poaco . If the nest mail from America should bring tidings that the Oregon question was amicably settled , lie would give
if she were in open rebellion and thirty sail ofthe line were riding in St . George ' s Channel in open defiance to us . He should vote for this concession of Mr . Ward , which ought to have been made Ion *** ago . It would be granted when it was too late , when it would only serve to encourage agitation , and it would be considered by the world , not as an act of national greatness , but of national weakness and disgrace . Sir J . Graham was surprised at the speech which Mr . Macaulay had just delivered , as he had given his warmest support to this measure on a former occasion . So far from thinking that the Irish Church was an evil in itself , and ought to be destroyed , he thought that it ought tobe maintained . He defended the inviolability of the Protestant Church in , TreIand on the compact made atthe Union ,
and showed by quotation from a speech ot * Lord John Russell in 1838 that he considered it to be an integral part of the Church of England , and held that it ought fo be maintained ) although he was in favour of a re-distribution of its revenues . He could not conceive any circumstances which would justify the resolution to wliich Mv . Macaulay wished the house to come on this subject , and , therefore , he should meet his proposition with a decided negative . This was the first time that a proposition had ever been made to transfer the property of the Protestant Church to the maintenance of thc Roman Catholic Church . It had often been suspected that such was the object of the appropriation clause ; but it had always been denied that there was any justice in such
a suspicion . He had foreseen long since the consequences which would follow the proposition of the appropriation clause ; and now the house had them distinctly arrayed before it in a proposal to destroy the Protestant Church . He implored the _housenot to commit spoliation on the Church of Ireland in order to indulge its benevolence towards the Church of Rome . The sentiments expressed that evening by Mr . Macaulay were pregnant with evil in the present state of affairs . He concurred with Mr . Macaulay in what he had said respecting the Repeal of the Union , and believed that it was the resolution of the house , expressing the sentiments of all the inhabitants of Great Britain , and a majority of those of Ireland , to resist such a measure to the
utmost , even though the empire should be shaken to its foundation in the course of the struggle . lie denied Mr . Macaulay ' s assertion that this measure had been extorted [ from Government by fear ; and repeated his former assertion that it liad been planned and announced by Government long before there was any apprehension of a misunderstanding with America . Neither was it brought forward nor announced until the Government had put down the _nionstermectings , and reduced the agitation in Ireland within limits which no longer left any reasonable ground for alarm . He believed he spoke the sentiments of his colleague" —he certainly spoke his own—when he declared that he could not agree with the right "* hon . gentleman that the Irish Church was a bad institution and a
nuisance . He could not admit for one moment that it was an evil and ought to be abolished . On the contrary , after the most anxious deliberation , he was confirmed in the opinion that it was the duty o tha country to maintain the Protestant Established Church in Ireland . He was decidedly opposed to W _> motion of the hon . member for Sheffield . , Mi * . Roebuck contended that Sir J . Graham had _gjven no answer to the arguments of Mr . Macaulay . Ihe Church property of Ireland was appropriated for certain uses , whicli uses had signally tailed , and it therefore becanie a question as to what was to be done with the property . The hon . and learned
gentleman then proceeded to repeat the argument ol Mr . Macaulay that . Ministers werc giving a triump h to agitation in the course they were pursuing , tor they were impervious to reason as regarded the justice of the Irish claims , while at once conceding everything to fear at the first light cloud which a _*) - peared in-the political horizon . When they found it necessary to yield , they even then only yielded bit by bit , and always too late , whether the concession was to the people of England or of Ireland . It only required that the hon . member of Cork should terrify them a Uttle more , and a fair adjustment would then be made of ecclesiastical property for beneficial purposes , without the slightest injury to any person whatever . ( Continued in our fifth page . )
Abeiurfien.—A Meeting Of Those Holding C...
ABEiurfiEN . —A meeting of those holding cards ol the National Charter Association , will be held onthe 29 th of April , at eight o ' clock p . m ., at 154 , Gallowgate .
Printed By Dougal M'Gowan, Of 17, Gruat Windmill* Tfl
Printed by DOUGAL M'GOWAN , of 17 , _Gruat Windmill * tfl
Street, Haymarfcet, In Thc City Of "West...
street , Haymarfcet , in thc City of "Westminster , at » Office in the same Street and Parish , for the Pro * prietor , FEARGUS O'CONNOR , Esq ., ahd published by "William Hewitt , of No . 18 , Charles-street , Br andonstreet , Walworth , in the Parish of St . Mary , Newing * ton , in the County of Surrey , at the Office , No . Mi Strand , in the Parish of St , _ATary-le-Stnmd , in th _* _- City of * Westniinster Saturday , April 2 fi , 1845 .
-
-
Citation
-
Northern Star (1837-1852), April 26, 1845, page 8, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/ns3_26041845/page/8/
-