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GARUSES . —iLEBTISG OP THE COUSCII . OF THE CabI . isi .-b Chabust Aebociatiq >\—On Sunday last , a public meeting of the aboTe-named body took place » S theSr room , No . 6 , John-street , Caldewgate , Mr . James Hurst in the chair . Moved by Mr . "William , seconded by Mr . John Gllberteon , and . earned— "Tb&i the qnsrterij meeting of the A- socantion beheld on Monday evening , the 29 ; h inst ., sad that all members receive notice of the same . " Y » riou 3 sums were then paid in from the different districts , and arrangements made to lay the whole accounts of the Association before the meeting of members .
Ibpoktast Public Meetixg op the Members op THB "WoBKnfGMxs ' S MkXTAX iMPfiOTEHEST ScCIBTr i 5 D otheks , is behalf of Messrs . Paieesok axd B . OBIKSOS . —On Sunday evening last , the case of Messrs . Paterson and Hofoinsois , the victims of Scottish bigotry and intolerance , now suffering imprisonment for the nndefmable offence of blasphemy , was brought under consideration . The question ¦ was introduced by Mr . Mnir , who entered at some length into the case « f the victims commenting strongly on the speech of the Lord Chief Justice Clerk npon their trial , which he contended was onscripinral in the highest degree . He quoted passages to prove his position , and said if any parties deserved pnnishment , it was the Lord Chief -Jnstiee Clerk , and the other officials , who had acted BO nnjnstly upon the trial . Mr . Mair appealed strongly to the aadience to come forward , and endeavour to obtain the release of the persecuted
individuals , and to adopt the petition aboat to be introduced jto the House of Commons by Mr . Duncombe . He then quoted an *> xcel ] en $ leading article in the Star , apon the subject of the trials ; also another , which appeared on the 2 nd of December , contrasting the prosecution of Robertson and Pater ^ son with that of Dr . Kally . Mr . Mnir read the petition issued from Edinburgh upon the snbjeet , ibe adoption of which he concluded by moving . Mr . John . Armstrong then made Tarions appropriate remarks npon the subject before the meeting . He concluded by seconding Mr . Muir ' s proposition . The Chairman ( Mr . J . B . Hanson ) suggested that the petition and memorial wonJd have greater effect if a public meeting were called at which , no doubt , they would be unanimously adopted . This view of the subject , however , was not entirely acquiesced in , and itjwas at length resolved ihat it should emanate from the society alone . The motion was -then put to the meeting and adopted .
CHESHIRE . —In accordance with the announcement in Isss week ' s Star , a delegate meeting was held in the Gharris * Boom , Bombers Brow , Hillgate , Stockport , when the following resolutions ¦ were unanimously agreed to : — " That a lecturer be employed for six weeks , and that Mr . C . Doyle , of MaBohester , be the person . " ** That a Secretary be appointed , who shall correspond with , an 3 receive all conuatinications from the various localities relative to the business of the lecturer and organization of the county ; and that Mr . J . Mitchell be the Secretary . " That the next delegate meeting be
holden one month from this date , in the Chartist meeting room , Stanley-street , in Maccle = fieicL " "That Mr . Christopher Doyle be particularly requested to impress cpon the minds of our friencs in each locality the neees-ity of sending delegates to the next meeting . " "That each locality be corresponded with one week previous to the next delegate meeting , for which purpose onr friends and secretaries in such localities are regnested to send their address as soon as possible to Mr . James -Mitchell Communications , to be addressed to James Mi'cbell , Commercial Coffee Hou 3 e , 72 , Heaton-lane , Stockport .
BlRaHNGHAML—Chakust Meetog . The BFnal weekly meeting of the National Charter Association wa 3 held at the Chartist Hall , Peck-lane , on Sunday evening last , Mr . A . Finley was unanimously tailed to the cbair , and after a brief address , introduced Mr . George "White to the meeting . Mr . "White entered into a survey of the position of the Chartist cause , and the reasons for the seeming differences which existea . He shewed that the whole arose from the quarrelsome dispositions of a few Tain and empty-headed people in the various towns .
He pointed out the difference between real and sham Chartism- Real Chartism was- the struggle of Labour against Capital . The shams were ihose who wereJed away by everj qaack nostrum for the sake of pelf . He described the manner in which the working men had been at &S 1 times cheated by the middle classes , and warned them ag * inst being again deceived . He laid down several propositions for the future goidsnee of xbe real Chartists , and sat down amidst loud cheers . Several persons then enlolled their names S 3 members of the Association , and the meetjngsepsrated .
Mr . "White will -address the people at the above room every Sunday evening at seven o ' clock , and will aiieod at Duddeston-row every Monday evening when toe weather permits . HYDE . —On Sunday last , the Chartists held their weekly meeting , Mr . James Atkinson in the chair . The f © noTriBg > ersons were nominated to the Council : —Mr . William Bumby , shoemaker : Mr . Thomas " Whiiehemi , manufacturer ; Mr . John Winterbottom ; Mr . William Balnea ; Mr . Joseph Campbell ; Mr . James Atkinson ; Mr . Peter Fnmival . Ox Mo > -dat sight , Mr , James Leach , of Manchester , delivered a lecture in the Chartist Association Room . Mr . Leach expounded ably on the principles of Chartism , and exposed the fallacies of the free traders . The meeting was highly pleased with the diseonree . Some members were enrolled .
ASHTON-TJJf BEH-IiYJTE . —On Sunday evening last , Mr . Glosap delivered a discourse on the present evils of society ; at the conclusion of which a few questions were asked , which Mr . Glosop answered to the satisfaction of the audience . 2 i 0 N » O » . —Detsict Couscil , Jan . 21 st , 1344 . —Mr , Gardner in the cbair . Mr . StaDwocd mored w That an aggregate public meeting be nelc monthly in each district wherein a hall or large room can be obtained / or : hat purpose , " Seconded by Mr . Pickersgill . After considerable discussion , ' this was carried . Mr . Simpson handed in the duly audited balance-sheet , which was received .
Crrr op Lo : a > ox . — " Hall , " Turoagain Lane , Sunday evening , Jan . 21 st- ilr . Philips wa 3 ca >! ed to the efasir . " The article , " Cobden « . O'Connor , " -wa 3 read from the Star : at that portion in which Cobden admits Mr , O'Connor and his followers were hi 3 greatest trouble , the audience cheered most loudly . Mr , Cooper then del : vered an eloquent lecture " On the Poetry of Robert KicoL" and was warmly applauded . Goldes Lio * , Deas-street , Soho . —Mr . Ulingworth lectured to » numerous audience at the above place on Sunday evenipg last . Somkbs Tows . —Mr . Gale lectured to a erowded audience at the Bricklayers' Arm ; , Tonbridge-street , on Sunday evening lasL
STATE TRIALS . Piacar'ds having appeared on the walls of Soathwark and Lambeth , announcing a lecture by Mr , O'Connor on the above subject , at an early hoar on Monday evening that spacious building , the Sauth London Charcis : Hall , was densely crowded to hear him . At half-pasfc seTen o ' clock seven , Mr . O'Cennor entered the Hall amidst an enthusiastic burst of applause , and with difficulty forced his way through the dense mass od to lbs p ' arfcrcj . ' Mr . J . W . Parker was unanimously called to the chair , and introdneed Mr . O'Connor . .
31 r . O'Connor on rising , was again greeted with a tremendous burst of applause , which having subsided , he said : —My friends—The Repeal of lie Union is a question of interest to Ireland , to England , jisy I £ o farmer , and say , to the whcJe world— ( cbeers ) . He sought for Repeal , first , because he was an Irishman —secondly , he wa 3 conTinccd no good would be dor e for Ireland wrihou * it . He weald ai once proceed to lh = State Trials , if they miiht be so called . Yes , they were trials , not of the Iribh nation , but of the government—( bear , hear ) . The two -first , dajs had been taken up by the Irish Attorney G ' -rera ) , who talked all that time and said nothiii ^—Uoud
laughter ) The oiher lour dajs had been consumed in the examination of the Reporters to the English paper ? , and if he was bow asked * vhai was the charge against Mr . O'Conneli , he must ssy npon his oaih he couldn ' t tell . All that had been stated had appeared in the public papers long ago—nothing utw had been adduced . T"c ( iovercmesl authorities said why do yon noi wair , and we will redress your grievances Jfes . they might wait until Saint Tibb ' s eve , which the Irish people knew neither happened be f ore cor alter Christmas—( roars of laughter ) . Nothing was more necessary tbsn that a prosecutor should corse into court wiih ck-an hands . Did Baron Smith ' s son ? Let us see . First , Mr . O'Connell had moved
for a committee to enquire into Baron Smith s conduet in Parliament ; secondly , Mr . O'ConnelTs son John stood candidate in opposition to the now Irish Attorney General for a seat in Parliament for Yonghall , and { said Mr . O'Connor ) by my extrtiona 31 r . John O'Connell was returned—( loud chetr ?) . Treal , you aii know how you would feel under such crrenmstajiceB . Fifty pounds was paid for a report cf one meeting in Ireland ( Donnybrooi ) yet they had plenty of evidence respeciing Repeal ; betore the gnestion had been mooted in the House of Commons by Mr . O'ConnelL andseconded by him ( Mr . O'C ) . What was a govern- j uent 1 it should act
x as as a common" parent for the benefit of all—bnt had Government done so ! No ¦ it bad fostered those meetings , allowed them to ' proceed without interruprioa or molestation . If ' ihey were wrong , why did they not take proceedings j earlier , and not wait nntii the dangerous period of < the Clontarf meeting—( hear , hear ) I There was no sympathy from Ireland when he was tried and [ sentenced to eighteeii months' imprisonment in a , ' felons' cell in York Castle , but he returned good for ] eyfl—( eheers ) . He . called the jury— " the glorious , pioos , and 'immortal" dozen of Orangemen-r ( great ; cheers ) . Weil . haw . suppose they convicted O'Con-
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nell siid his compatriots what would be the weight of such s , conviction ? None . What weie five mem ' sufferings , compared to the liberties of a nation—( loud cheers )? Mr . O'Connell ' s great merit lay ia this : he had taught the Irish what he could not Tinteach—( loud cheers ) . He ( Mr . O'Connor ) had fought againBt Mr . O'ConnelL , when he thought him wrong ; but the moment he was persecuted and prosecuted , he fought for him—( applause ) . la 1798 it required an immense army toikeep down the Irish people ; if it did so then , what would it require now to keep down nina rnillioas of determined , sober people . ( Great cheering . ) . Bat suppose the Irish gain Repeal , and have members elected under the present system , what good would it do them ?
None . Because legislators elected have no feeling in common with the mass . Did they think my Lord Devon and the Commission would do any good 1 ( Loud fihouts of no , no . ) Did they think that Peel and the Tories would do any good ? ( Loud shouts of no , no . ) Did they think that Russell and the Whic 3 would do any good . ( No , no . ) Did they think that Cobden and his party would do any good—( loud groans ) . "Well then , so he thought ; and that was why he had stood aloof from all of them . If they put the Repealers down in Ireland , he would raise Buch a flame in England that oonld not be put out—( loud cheers ) . He would ask his countrymen a plain question . Why had they quarrelled with their English brethren ! Thty'had been
deluded—they had imagined the English working classes had joined in their oppression—while it was the . English oligarchy only that had oppressed them ' —( hear , hear ) . They had both one and the same I interest . He , nor the English Chartists , would not i unite with Tories , " Whigs , or anti-Corn Law j Leaguers —( loud cheere)—nor with any party in the j state , save the Irish Repealers—( cheers ) . Cobden in I his work , England . lreland , and America , ' had made ! a most slanderous and filthy attack on his Catholic ' countrymen , thanking his God that he was not j born a Catholic , and charging them with being the S importers of dirt , filth , and lice , into England' ( groans and hisses ) . Well , if the General would i write and say such things , what may not be
expfeted of the common ? oldiera ! Had they not found Acland making similar statements while standing candidate for Hull , and he was an Auti-Corn Law Leaguer . Sharman Crawford also talked of stopping the supplies , but alas he has not the power . He ( Mr . O'Connor ) did not like to foster delnsions . He did not tell them when the Charter would come ; but as honest Jumt-s Leach said , there it was when they had a mind to fetch it . ( Cheers ) "Would Tories , Whigs , or Corn-Law Repealers , call free meetings to discuss their measures ? No they dare not . He had accepted a challenge from the great leader Cobden ; but he ( Cobden ) would not meet him . He did not like the open air . Well then let him have a lar ^ e room . Let Covent Garden
Theatre betaken , the lime after working men leave their employment , that is after six o ' clock , and I will bear half the expenses asmore tnan once I have offered to do . I was returning home last night and heard the springing of a rattle , 1 went down an alley , and saw two men quarrelling , not fighting . Thirteen policemen came up . I said , p&rt those men , do not let them quarrel . One of the pojice said , " O , we can ' t , they have knives . " No , said I , they have not ; the one who had a knife had dropped it at my feet , and I had given it to another , who had taken it away . Well , some if the officers took one of the men by the arms , some by the legs , and as he was goiDg along he shouted out " i am a Repealer ? when one of the policemen rnshed qd to him ,
exclaiming , " O . the rebel , " and struck him most brutally , which caused him to writhe with agony , whereupon the whole of the constables beat him most waniocly , cruelly , and brurally with their truncheons . The man laid quite stiff for a time , as if he was dead . A woman shonted do not hit him any more , he is dead enough already—( loud cries of shame . ) . The man was taken to the Stationhouse , Marylebone-lane . A surgeon dressed the poor man ' s wounds : he was dreadfully injured . He ( Mr . O'C ) attended the police court that morning with two other gentlemen . He was both council * nd witness for the poor injured mau . The policemen attended one by one , and swore no blow was struck but what wa 3 necessary , and that stones were thrown at them ; while on my word , and on mv oath , I declare that no stones were thrown , and that at
least forty blows were £ track by tho policemen Weil what think you was the resuli 1 Why that the poor man so ill used was held to bail to take his trial at the sessions ! There was law—there was justice . He believed the Repeal of the Union would lead to the Charter , therefore he contended for those iwo questions —( great cheering ) . Suppose the ** glorious , pious , and immortal ' Orange dozen brought in a verdict of guilty , ony let Paddy and John Bull be but united and in a short timo he would get ien millions of signatures , demanding Repeal , and the libera-ion of the people's leaders . He was trying to get as large a muster as possible for Conference ia April next , and then he would bring hi ? plan 3 for the future forward—( ckwr «) . In conclusion he would say resist all humbug . He would remain firm to the glorious principles unto the day of his destn .
- > ir . O Connor resumea his seat amidst deafening sbonts of applause , again and asjain repeated . Mr . Dwaiae then rose , and said ihis was a proud day for Ireland—a proud day for farm to stand alongside Frargus O'Conaor , whose patriotic ancestors had suffered fo much for the cause of M © nld Ireland . " Yet they defied the Tories ; Fcargus O'Connor defied them ; he defied them ; and Daniel O'Conneil , in the name of Ireland , also defied them . Mr . Dw&ine concluded an eloquent * p cch by moving a vote of thank * to Mr . O'Connor for his address , which was briefly seconded by Mr . Dron , and carried unanimously . Mr . O'Connor responded , and said they had thanked him theoretically , new let them thaiik him practically , by taking out their card 3 of membership . He moved a vote of thanks to their Chairman , Mr . Parker , which was seconded by Mr . Williams , and carried unaciinouslv .
A considerable ^ mmber took out their card ? . Three ch ers were given for the Charter , three for Repeal , three for feargus O'Connor , three for Daniel O'Connell , and the meeting peaceably separated .
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THE TRIAL . FOURTH DAY . Sitting op the Cotst , Thpbsday , Jax 18 . A few minutes before ten o'clock , the Attorney-General and Crown Counsel entered , the Solicitor-General taking the place occupied for the last two days by the Attorney-General . Mr . Ford , the Town Clerk , was the first to take his seat in the witness-chair , to ascertain if it would suit , from which he paid his re-pects to the Crown Counsel , amidst considerable laughter . A few minutes after ten , the Judges entered . Immediately after the traveraers' names were called , also the names of the jurors .
Mr . Frederick Bond Hnghcs , short-hand writer , being sworn , was examined by the bo lcitor-Uin- ' eraL—Is a short-hand wriier . Was in the habit of reporting for the last seventeen or eighteen ytars . Came to this country in September last . Arrived on the 30 th September . That was Saturday . Was in Ireland before . Remembers the day following . Was in Mullaghmast on that day , which is in the County KiJdare . Arrived there at half-past twelve i o ' ekek . Many persons were assembled there—there , were there altogether about 40 , 000 persons , as well as he could judge—but he could not look over the whole exient of the ground ; saw different exhibi- ' tions , different parties with banner ? , .
Do you recollect any inscriptions on those banners ? It was neec ? sary to refer to his book- Firt , t , I will ; * sk—did jcu on tfcai occasion take any cotes ur any memorandums of what passed ? He did of the ' speeches—( here the witness exhibited alarge bundle containing his note books ) . He saw different inscriptions or motios on flags— " Hurra for Repeal , " . on one of them—** A nation of 9 , 1 ) 08 , 000 was too ! strong to be dragged at the tail of another . " On the platform vras inscribed , ** If any man commit a crime he gives power to the enemy j" " Ireland must be a nation . " Some of the parties had on a sort of fancy dress . Musicians were there also . He could \ not say how many banners there were . Several ~\ persons were on the pbtfonn , with papers on their ' hats , on whieh were inscribed " O'Connell ' s Police , " \ and staves in their hand ? . !
Do yon know Mr . O'Connell ! Yes . [ Here Mr . ; O'Connell , who sat opposite to him , rose aad made a bow to the witnesj—( great laughter . ) hlu O'Connell arrived there about two o ' clock . ' Knows . Dr . Gray , Mr . Ray . Mr . Stetle ( whom he ! pointed out . ) They were at the meeting . i How was Mr . O'Connell dressed 1 He had on . him a velyet robe of scarlet . The Solicitor- General—What took place after the am w 2 fe O'Conne" J Some gentlemen pro- ! f 05 ^ Mr . O'OmneH to take the chair . A motion ' to teat effect was put and carried . On Mr . O Con-1 nella taking the chair , he addressed the meeting . ! Had taken notes of what Mr . O'Connell said on ' that occasion . He took it in short-hand . He had ' , with him the ongmal notes and the transcript of , those notea .
^ Witness was desired to read what Mr . O'Connell 1 | aid at the meeting ; and his mannscript notes ' - having been handed to him , be read the speech which , having already appeared in our columns , ! we need not now repeat it . There was one sen- ' tence in the speech whieh the Lord Chief Justice ) required the witness to repeat that he might take it j down : — I admit that it has the force of law , be- ' cause it is supported by the policeman ' s truncheon ,, ' the soldier ' s bayonet , the horseman ' s sword , and the < courts of law which , have the power to adjudicate ; ' but it is not eupperted b y eonstitntional rights . The ; Union , in my opinion , is therefore totally void . "' Some resolutions having been carried , Mr . O'Cal- i laghan came forward with a round cap , which he placed on the head of s Mr , O'Connell . and said , " I am deputed by the committee which surround me ,
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whose names are subscribed to this document , to present you wivh the national cap . " An address was then read . The cap was placed on the head of Mr . O'Cennell . Did Mr . O'Connell Bay anything ? Ha did . ( The witness then read the observations made by Mr . O'Connell on the occasion ) Wa 3 any other resolution proposed besidea that which you have read ! Yes ; there was one to this ffect : —* 'Resolved—That a petition be presented to arliament for a Repeal of the Legislative Union between England and Ireland . " And in another stating— lv Forty-four years devoted to his country has justly earned fur O'Connell the confidence of the Irish people , and we hereby pledge ourselves individually and collectively , to follow his guidance under every circumstance that may arise . "
The resolution was put and earned . The meeting was held in the open air . Was present at the dinner given at Mullagbmast . The travelers whom ! saw at the dinner were Mr . John O'Connell , Mr . O'Connell , Mr . Steele , Mr , Barrett , Dr . Gray , and Mr . Ray . Nevtr saw any of those gentlemen before , exoept Mr . John O'Connell . Never was in Ireland before . Mr . John O'Connell presided at the dinner . After dinner he made a speech . Mr . Richd , Barrett also spoke on the occasion .
[ The witness then detailed tho proceedings at the MullagmaBt dinner , with which the public are already pretty well acquainted . The reading of some portions of Mr . O'Connell's speeoli excited much laughter in Court , and particularly the foJJowing words : —• ' And the poor old Duke—( cries what of him ! i Why , nothing of him . He was born in Ireland , to be sure ; but a man is not a horse beoause he was born in a stable . " The reading of this speech occupied nearly three-quarters of an hour . l
The-Solicitor-General—Did you gain admission to a meeting of the Repeal Association at the Corn-ExohaBge on Monday , the 2 nd of October ? I did . How did you gain admission there ? By stating that I attended to report . Did you obtain any ticket ? I did . Have you got that ticket ? This is the ticket . You obtained it on the 3 rd ? Yes . From whom did yon get it ? From Mr . Riy . The witntss then read the inscription on the ticket It was to the foHowiDg effect : —" Admit t ^ je bearer , Mr . Hughes , of ihe press , at all times to our meetings , T . M . Ray . " The witness then proceeded : — At the time Mr . Rray wrote this , I said , * ' I think you had better Mate that I attend for the Government , and write , " Admit the Government reporter . " Mr . Ray said , ** No ; that will do very well ; that will admit you—tho Conciliation-hall will be opened soon , and you will have a place for yourself . "
You apprised them that you attended as a reporter on the part of the government ! I did ; that was understood at Mullaghmast . To whom did you mention it at Mullaghmast ! At the conclusion of Mr . O'Connell ' s speech , Mr . O'Conneil stated that he understood there was a gentleman there on behalf of the government . I immediately got up , and ) said— " I attend for the government to report the proceedings , " Mr . O'Connell then said that gentlemen had attended on former occasions to report . He said tha 1 , " at the Roman Catholic Association , he had afforded them every facility in his power , and given them access to documents" tor something of tho kind ); " and tho same accommodation and facility he afforded to those gentlemen he would be very happy to afford to me . " 1 believe it was through Mr . O'Coanell I received a ticket for the banquet . Mr . Barrett was thpre , to the best of my belief .
[ The witness was then examined as to the proceedings at several meetii gs at the Corn Exchange and at Calvert ' s Theatre , reading several speeches made thereat , particularly the one by Tom Steele , containing the
quotation" Behemoth , biggest born of earth , Upheaved its vastnesB . ' ' And also a speech by a Mr . Green , of Liverpool , who presented an address from the Repealers of Liverpool to Mr . O'Connell at thn Calvert ' s Theatre meeting . ] Mr . Hatchell , Q . C ., cross-examined the witness , on behalf of the travelers . —I am not a reporter for the public press . My business is that of shorthand writer ; 1 never was connected with a journal . 1 have been reporting in England , and from an early period of my life have been pursuing that profession . I was particularly employed by the government to come over to Ireland , and act according to directions , but not to report any particular meeting ? . 1 bad
with me a letter acdrcssed to the Attorney-G < meral . I waited on him on my arrival , but he was not at home , and I was directed to Mr . Brewster . This was Saturday night , 30 th September . The meeMDg at Mullaghmast took place next day We were there about three quarters of an hour before the arrival of Mr . O'Connell . We got on the platform , and had a good view of the meeting . Never attended any county meetings . I have attended public meetings at Manchester , which are the only meetings I had ever attended . After Mr . O'ConneH ' s arrival I beard it stated that I was on the platform as the Government reporter . On Mr . O'Connell asking whether any gentleman was
pre-Bent as a reporter on the part of the Government , I stated the object of my attendance , and every possible accommodation was immediately afforded me . 1 do not think Mr . O'Conuell shook hand * with me . I received a ticket for the banquet . 1 mentioned that Mr . Latham was my assistant . It took place at about fivo o ' clock , and terminated at nine . The Famo order and regularity was preserved at the dinner as at the meeting . From what you know of public meeting 3 , do you thiuk it necessary that persons ehould be appointed to preserve order ? I think that parlies on tho platform would have been much incommoded at the meeting at Mullaghmast had there not been persons present to prevent the people getting on .
As a fair roan , I ask you would you not consider it an influential mode of procuring order , peace , and regularity , they having smoh persons present aa those whom Mr . O'Connell appointed ? I think it very proper that such persons should be present . Fleming Mathias Latham was than sworn and examined by Mr . Bennett . —I know the gentleman who was last examined . I came here as his assistant . I was at the Mullaghmast , meeting with him . I have been engaged in t ? . kingnote . a for the last ten
years . J transcribed Mr . Hughes ' s notes at his dictation . I did so correctly . I know Mr . O'Connell . I have often seen him in London on committees . I took somenotes for my amusement . Mr . Hughes is a particular friend of mine , and I wished to see the country . 1 copied some note ? at ihe banquet thrown on the table by Mr . Ray . I copied them in short ha . nd . I attended the meetings of tho association at Dublin . Mr . Ray wrote two cards of admission to the dinner , one for Mr . Hughes , and one for myself .
Mr . Fitzgibbon—You copied the resolutions you saw on tbe table ? 1 did bo . Were those ihe rr-solntions that were read at the dinner ? 1 should not like to say that they were because I was in an inconvenient posit ion for hearing I should decidedly say that the general substance is the same . After I copied the resolutions , they were handed round the table to the different reporters . The wituess waa then asked by Mr . Moore , whether Mr . Ray knew that Mr . Hughes was about to attend tho meeting as a reporter ? He must have known so , as he saw Mr . Hughes at theMullaghmaet meeting . Knowing him to be a reporter , he gave him a ticket of admi .-sion . [ The cross-examination of the witness by Mr .
HaicheiJ extended to a very great length ; ( he Learued Gentleman requiring him to read the whole of the speechea at the several meetings he had attended . This necessarily ocoupied much time , and was withal very tedious to bear , and would be more so to report . At length he fell into the hands of ] Mr . Moore , who cross-examined on . the part of the Rev . S > lr . Tierney—On the 3 rd of October , the Rev . Mr . Tienuy was at the Association . I never saw him before . J went to tho meeting about twelve o'clock , and remained to the conclusion , which was about lour or halt-past four o'clock . There were about two or three hundred persons at the Association . There were other persons who made speeches besides the traversera .
By Mr . M'Donough , on the part of Mr . Barrett—I took Dotes ol a speech of Air . Barrett ' s at Mullaghmast ; . I was at the meeting on the 9 . h of October , at Calvert ' . ; Theatre . There were present Mr . J . O'Coanell , Mr . D . O'Connell , Mr , Steele , Mr . Ray , Mr . Duffy , 6 ic . Air . MDjuough— Was Mr . Barrett there ? No ; I mado a mistake on that subject , whioh I corrected as soon ad possible . Mr . M'Donough—As Mr . Barrett was not there , of course he could not have made any speech on that occasion ? No .
Nor was Mr . Barrett at the dinner at the Rotunda ; and , of oour .-e , he made no speech there ? I mistook Mr . Barrett for another person both on the occasion of the meeting at Calvert ' s Theatre , and the dinner at the Rotunda . I corrected my mistake at the earliest possible moment . 1 was at the house of Mi . Justice Burron when the affidavits were sworn to . I saw Mr . Barrett there . I had deposed to the fact of Mr . Barrett ' s attendance at the meetings in question previous to the day I saw him at Judge Burton ' s house . I did cot correct the mistake I made in an affidavit . I told Mr . Wray and Mr . Kemmis , the Crown Solicitor , that I doubted if Mr . Barrett was at either of the meetings at Calvert ' s Theatre or the Rotunda , ilr . Wray
! 13 Mr . Kemmis's managing clerk . I told Mr . Kemmis of my mistake in the passage of Mr . Justice Burton ' s house . He did not go back and have the information corrected . I particularly mentioned my mistake to Mr . Wray , I recollect being in London when a great assembling of the people , to the extent of , I believe two hundred thousand persons occurred there . They walked in procession , and at the head of the procession was the Rev . Dr . "Wade . He was dressed in his robes . The people went to the Home-office . Presented their petition , I understood , to Lord Melbourne , and then went home . It was the largest procession 1 ever saw . Mr . Whiteside . Q . C— I think I could gather from you that they behaved with great propriety in
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Miiurtgnmaat \ 1 never saw tho House of Commons go ordtrly . Who gave you an introduction to the Attorney-General I Mr . Gurney , short-hand writer . Some delay having here occurred . The Lord Chief Justice asked the Solioitor-General if they were going to call another witness . He did not wish to press them , but he would leave it to his own discretion . The Solicitor-General replied that there waa another witness about coming .
Charles Ross then appeared on the table , and , having been sworn * was examined by Sergeant Warren—He stated that he was a native of England , resided in London , and was a newspaper reporter . Is a short-band writer , and had been so for upwards of twenty years . Came to this country at the end of August las .. Was in this country before . The first time he came here was on July the 4 th . He was not certain ; it might have been June ; but at all events it was the night before the Donnybrook meeting . On referring to his notes it was on the 4 th of July that he came hero ; it was suggested to him to come over here ; the suggestion was made on the part of the government ; witness took notes of Mr . O'Connell ' a speech at Donnybrook ; has not got that note ; recollects to have had it for about a fortnight afterwards ; took a transcript of the original note .
Sergeant Warren , in continuation—What became of the original note 1 Witness—I carried it wish me to London , and kept it in a drawer . About a fortnight after I recollect having taken it ont , and placed it along with some other papers , and I fancy that ono of my children—( laughter)—who had access to the drawer destroyed it ; but what became of it I have nqver been able to discover , though I have searched diligently . The transcript which I took was very correct . Sergeant Warren—How soon did you take a transcript of the note ! Witness—Next day . Attended the meeting at Donnybrook . Had a connexion with a newspaper at the time * I wish to state that fact as there were some observations made concerning me whioh I did not then notice , because I wished to reserve myself for this oooasion .
Sergeant Warren—You were quite right . You have a copy of the speech of Mr . O'Connell at the meeting of Donnybrook . I have . Sergftant Warren—Read it , if you please . ( The witness then commenced reading the speech of Mr . O'Connell : — " What a glorions sight ia here ! I have eeen many mighty assemblies , but never such a one as this . It . is impossible for me to have more power ; for I have power enough , &c . " Sergeant Warren to witness— Have you formed any opinion aa to the numbers present at that meeting ? I estimated the numbers at about 46 . 000 .
Sergeant Warron—Where were you placed ? On the scaffold ( universal laughter . ) I mean I was on the platform . The people came in procession with tho band ; a great number of flags were exhibited . ( paw Mr . O'Connell . 1 attended no meeting of the association in July , bat did shortly after my return on the 28 th of August . I do not recollect who was in tho chair , as the chairman was appointed beforo I got , in . Mr . J . O'Connell was there . I saw Mr . O'ConneH , Mr . J . O'Connell , Mr . Steele , and Dr . Gray there every day . I eaw Mr . Ray there on two or three occasions . I took notes of what was Said . I got some Daperafrom Mr . Ray . Mr . Sergeant Warrpn then handed the witness a paper which he identified as being handed to him by Mr . Ray .
The witness then handed in the documents , and also others having reference to tho Arbitration Courts . He received all these documents from Mr . Ray . He was at a meeting of the Repeal Association on the 4 th September . On the 13 th of September , I got a document from one of the clerks of the Association . Mr . Ray told me to go to a particular room to get it . The riocument was " The Address to the People of the United Empire . " The Chief Juoticeenid it was now near half-past five o ' clock , and probably the Court had better adjourn . Mr . Sergeant Warren assented , and the Court rose at half-past five o ' clock .
FIFTH DAY . Sitting of the Court , Fridat , Jan . 19 . The Court sat this momine at tea o ' clock . Mr . O'Connell , attired in the bar costume of a Queen ' s Counsel , entered Court shortly before ten , and took his seat ia the inner bar . Thy other traverssrs were also punctually ia attendance Tho jury having been called over , and answered to their names , Mr . Hoss , whose evidence occupied a considerable portion of yesterday , was a # ii : i called and eximined on the part of the Crown by Ssrgeant Warren . Ho deposed
that be waa present at a meeting t . f tbe Repeal Association , which tGok place on tbe 28 th of August ; that rrteeting was attended by three of the troversers—Mr O'Connell , Mr . John O'Conml ' , and Mr . Ray ; witnew hfis a note of Mr . O'Connell ' s epeech on that occasion , in which he adverted to a plan which be had intrortncerl at some previous meeting , fur the construction of the Irish Parliament . —( Read the extract in question from O'Connell's speech . ) Has not in his notes a copy of a letter read that day from Mallow , but thinks he baa a detailed manuscript copy of ft This manuscript was written partly at the Association , and partly from my notes .
Look and see if you have a letter dated from Mallow , and purporting to be written by Richard Barnut Barrey , which was read at that meeting . Witness ( reading from his short-hand notes )—Mr . O'ConneH observed , on reading a letter containing subscriptions that alluded to the Queen ' s spuech , " that the speech from the Throne was merely a Ministerial production , and deserved to be characterised , af ? it was by the Morning Gfironicle . as the essence of stupidity . " HO i then adverted to tht > plan he proposed , at tbe last meeting fir the constitution of the IriBb . Parliament , and he said he wonld take up as tho baala of it the census returns of 1831 , which could not be supposed to have been framed for any purpose connected with the Repeal of the Union . Ho was disposed to adhtie to that census , except where it was mentioned that sumo error existed in the details . He had received a letJtr from
Mallow—. Mr . 8 ergeant Warren—That ' s whst I want . Where is that letter ?—I have not a copy of it ; it is not b < -. re . Ssrgeant Warren—Wei ) , wo cannot help it . What did Mr . O'Connell say in reference to tbnt letter ?—Ho Baidthatne thought that a tu \ r case was made out for giving Mallow two raeuibwa , and he proposed thnt the letter should bo referred to a committee , to enquire ¦ wbetber any change should be made in the plan with refprenee to that town , which was agreed to after some further observations . Mr . Henn—Have you any notes of what you crxll further observations ?—I have read them . Witness continued to read from his notes tbe speech of Mr . O'Connell , the material parts ot which are us fellows : — " There are inauy candidates for the Preservative Association . Gentfemen of the first fortune and of the highest rank nre daily proposing to me that they
should be named as candidates fur it ; there will be no difficulty whatever in getting 100 gentlemen . I nm speaking entirely by anticipation . We must k ^ ep ¦ within the letter and spirit of tbe law . I am not at present prepared , nor 66 I tbitik it necessary , to open the scheme of the Preservative Association ; but I am working out my plan for the constitution of the Irish House of Commons , wh ( -n it shall he established by Act of Parliament , or by the exercise of the prerogative of the Crown . I am working slowly but surely . I am working for the Irish nation , and want to satisfy them with my progress . I will give way ff any body will show me tbat I have tak ^ n a false step—the way to avoid it is to proceed gradually , and therefore I will confine myself to the appointment of Repeal Wardens . " Wero you present at the Association on the 20 'b of Aajjiist , the following dav ?—Yes .
Now , will you look at your notea , and say how roauy of the traversers were present ?—I have none bat Mr . O'ConneH on my notes . Did Mr . O'Connell , upon tbat occasion , say onythiug on that part of the Queen *» speech relative to her determination to maintain the Union between Engand and Ireland ?—He said , " It is now uiy duty " Mr . Henn—Is that the beginning of his speech ? Witness—It is . Mr . Henn—Did you take full notes of what occurred at that meeting , and the one before it ?—I took a full note of various matters that occurred . Mr . Henn—Where is that note ? - ~ I have not a full note of all that occurred . If you will allow me I will explain .
Mr . Henn—I would rather you would answer me . Did you take full notes of such portions as you thought material ?—Yee . Hnveyou these notes here ?—Yob . Thoae are the short-hand notes ?—Yea . Mr . Hetm ( addressing the Court)—I respectfully submit that he is not at liberty to uee those notes . Strreeant Warren—Mr , Hen < i , my Lord , is under a misconception . Mr . Henn—Pardon me , I am not . Mr . Justice Crumpton—What is the esact effect of what tbe witness has said ? - Mr . Henn—He said he did not take full notes of all that passed at that meeting , but only such portions as appeared to him to be material . I submit thai be is not to be a jurfge of materiality , and that be most have the whole proceedings on his notes in order to give evidence on Any part . Sergeant Warren—I will leave it to the Court
Chief Justice—If the witness swears tkat be gives tbe substance of what was spoken , according to the best of of bis skill and judgment , the Court will admit that evidence—otherwise no note could be admissible that the witness waa not able to swear was literatim tt verbatim . Mr . Henn—We don't require UUraiim el verbatim ; but we require the substance of all that passed , and without the whole he is not entitled to give evidence of any put Sergeant Warren—That is certainly the mest novel position I ever heard asserted .
Mr . Justice Burton—Suppose that no note had been taken at all , but that a witness came to give evidence of certain things he lieard said , would not that be atlmimble , although he ! might not recollect every word ?
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Mr . Justice Ctaropton—Aye , or every sentence ? Mr . Justice Burton—If the witness was present at a time when particular expressions Vero made use of by particular persons , surely that would still be evidence ? 1 Mr . Henn —; That would be a very different thing , for in that case we might examine his memory ; but , if a person goes deputed , as the witness announced lie was , by the Government , and takes notes , fee ought to be able to produce them—not RMDled extraots . We are entitled to the whole of what passed at that meeting , and no * , to part . Sergeant Wanen—The witness baa said tbat . h& took a full note . 1 Mr . Henn— -Ho has said that he took notes of such portions as he thought material .
Sergeant Warren ( to witness )—Have you taken a note , to tbe best of your skill and judgment , of Mr . O'Connell ' s speech on that occasion ? I have . I believe I have the entire . I can always tell when I have taken a thing consecutively , and when I have taken only the heads of the subject ; the Government accepted mf services on one condition . Mr . Henn —; Now , don't make a speech . I object , my Lord , to tfeis witness going on . He swears he did not take all of the speech . Sergeant Warren ^ -If I do not mistake , he swore he had taken a full note .
Mr . Henn—Pardon me Mr . O'Connell—Let Sergeant Wtrren ask that question again . ¦ Sergeant Warren ( to witness)—Have you taken the entire of tbat speech!—I know I have , because its all consecutive . : Mr . Henn—AW consecutive \ Witness—11 can always tell when I have taken only a branch of a speech . Witness then took up a bundle of notes . , Mr . Henn—Now , tell me , are those full notes , ot loose ubstracts ? I cannot depose to a fact or which I know nothing —( Roars of lanehter ) .
The witness , in reply to Sergeant Warren , said I have not as yet seen my notes at all , ao that there may be a blank in them , or there may not be a blank in them . . Sergeant Warren—Look at your note-book , and say if you have taken an entire note of Mr . O'Connell ' s speech on that occasion or not ? ( The witness-looked at his note-book for some time and said\—I don't think I fcsve a full note of all that occurred that day ; but I have taken such a note as enables me to give a description at it ; Sergeant Warren—I submit , my Lord , we are entitled to have this evidence , and it will be then for the Jury to say hojw they will receive it . Judge Perrln—Did you observe the last annwei tbe witness has given ?—He says he did not take ft full note of the speech , but such a note as would enable him to give a description .
Mr . Henn—? And I submit that is not evidence , because be cannot say anything except what is in his notes , and he admits be did not take a full note of the speech . ; Chief Justice . —Let us take down his answer correctly , and see what it Is . What is your answer , Mr . Ross ?—I have taken a full note of ail that I considered important and material in that speech ; for instance , I will jfive you , niy Lords , an example of the sort of notes I took . When I came to a passage in the speech which I considered material I took it down ; for instance , there is a passase in the speech of Mr . O'Connell , when speaking of the Union , where he states that trade and manufactures ! r « l fallen off greatly in consequence of the blighting effects of the Union . I considered tbat material , and took it down . Counsel—The falling off of trade and manufacture fs rather material certainly for this country .
Judge Crampton—If I understood you correctly , your answer is this—you took a portion , or part , of the speech , verbatim , and other portions of it you made a summary ef ? Yes , my Lord , that ' s it exactly . Judge Crampton—Then , you can'k give tbe words ot the portion of what I call the summary part of the speech , can you ? I frankly confess I cannot ; nor do I pretend to do so . Chief Justice—In the summary which you took down , I suppose you put down a catch-word , did you ? —I will give you an explanation of tb < 3 manner in whieh I took the notes . When Mr . O'Connell came to particular passages ,: I took up the words bo uttered ; for instance , he says hero , " There is another bill of indictment , an « J he ( M . 0 C ) also read a letter from Smytb O'Brien . Ha ; ( Mr . O'Connell ) Bald the Welch eommitted crimes and they were favoured with an inquiry ; the Irish committed no crimes , and were , on that account , denied their rights . "
Chibf Justice—Well , Sir?—Those are what I call heads , or the summary of two or three sentences , but I did not take tbe precise words uttered on the occasion . Chief Justice—Will you take on yourself to swear , to the best of your skill and judgment , that what yon did take down contoir 8 the substance of what was spoken on that occasion ? It contains the substance of what was spoken , certainly . Mr . H ^ nn—If I understood yon right you have taken a verbatim note of what you thought to be material in the speech , and a summary of the remainder of the proceedings . Now , will y * -u takn on yourself to swear , that in the sutnrrnry you have taken you have correctly taken the substance cf what was said ? Why tbe topics —( the end of sentence was lost , as tbe witness spoke se low ) . Mr . O'Connell—raise your voice , Sir ; the end of your sentence ia always lost , for you let your voice fall bo short , and so low . that no person can bear yon .
Mr . Henn—I . want to know from you , Mr . Ross , vf you pretend to swear that you have correctly taken the substance of what Mr . O'Connell said in the discussion of tbe topics on which he spoke ?—I have not taken a full note of tbe substance of the comments be made , but I took down tbe heads . Mr . Henn—Then you did not take a full note of the comments he made ? No , I did not Mr . Henn—Then , caii yon supply from memory tbe substance of the comments which be made use of ?—Yes . I would be enabled to do so on referrin ? to my notes . Mr . Henn—Did you not swear . Sir . five minutes ago that you could not i ? ive the comments ?—No , I did not Mr . Henn—You swore you could not depose to tht substance of the comments most assuredly ?—In general I can swear toi the substance , bat with reference to pisF . tgcs of the comments I do nob pretend to give tbe precise words that were used by Mr . O'Connell .
The Solicitor-iGeneral said there was a preliminary question to be settled , and on whioh he was entitled to the judgment of the Court before the discussion went further . If tbe witness said be could give the substance of the comments , or tbe language of Mr . O'Connell on tbat occasion , they had a right to get it from him by reference to his book and memory . If tbe witness was not able to depose to ail tbat was said on tkat occasion , from beginning to end , it ought not to be contended that he could not state such portions cf the speech as he could depose to fully , and to give the portion of which ha took the substance . It was a nf w proposition to say s ? , and one that be ventured to as-: ert ¦ was uot to be found in any law boek . They hid a right to get from Mr Roso » ny portion of what Mr . O'ConnolI did say , and then let the gentlvmen on the other side gst the remjiiader from him if they pleased ; a ; , d cot presume to say tbat they ( the Crown ) could not get wbat they really were entitled to , and could give in evidence .
Mr . Henii—Why , strictly speaking , you could , not use the n tea taken by the witness at all , except to refresh his memory ; if thf-re was a written publication given in evidence they might read a portion of it , and it would be thonfor us to use the remainder of it ; but when u witness takes a partial note of proceedings , he is nut eiititlad to ; use it . By the strict rule the witness could txanrinehisnote 8 to refresh bis memory , and be must rely on that then . Judge Craniptoii—I think you confine your objectien to the short summary taken of the Bpee . ch by tbe witness , or do you extend it to tbe words tbat be is really able to sweur to ? Mr . Henn—I object to his entire evidence , unless he has taken a fult uote of all that passed , and I therefore submit his evidence cannot be received . Judge Crampton—I understand ; tbat is quite sufficient .
CbiVf Justice-f- ^' e will admit the evidence , considering tbat we are acting in conformity witb the wellknovru principles of the law . Sergeant Warrtn—Proceed , and state as fully as you can , from your notes , the speech of Mr . O'Connell ; and when you come la the portions which you have not taken full ; , or where your notes are imperfect , state so . Tbe witness proceeded to tend the speech of Mr . O'Connell for a few minutes , and then , addressing tbe Court , said , " Now , my Lerds , I have come to the point at which my notes are not so full—shall I read th * m ? " i Mr . Justice Cnimpton—Do you object , Mr . Henn ? Mj . Henn—If ; the witness can give the substance and meaning weido not , my Lord . We call upon him to go on . j
[ The witness then proceeded to read from his notes the speeches made at the meeting of . the 29 tb of August ; but as these have been given before , it is unnecessary to repeat them here . He tben deposed that he was present at a meeting : of tbe Association helden on the 4 th of September ; that there was present at it Messrs . O'Con-. eli , Ray , John O'Connell , and Steele ; and that he bad taken notes of the speeches made , which be read at full length . He was then examined & 3 to the *« Monster Meeting" at Loughrea , at which he was present , and saw there Mr- O'Connell , Mr . Steele , and Dr . Gray . At ihe dinner after the meeting tho same gentlemen were present and also Mr . Barrett The witness was tben asked : —J Are yon acquainted witb the traversers ?—I am . ' Serjeant Warren—Point tfcem out , it you please ; The witness turned round , and , after some hesitation said— " I only see Mr . O'Connell , Dr . Gray , Mr . Ray , and the Rev . — Tierney . "
Sergeant Warren—Look round and try if you cin identify any more of them ? Ol yes ,. I see Mr . John O'ConneH . 1 ; Sergeant Warren—Tha traversera ought to be together ; this difficulty on tbe part of tbe witness arises , my Lords , from tbe circumstance » f tbe traversars not being all bere . i Mr . Whiteslde-i-I am rather inclined to think it results from tbe circumstance of their not having been all there !—( Laughter . ) [ Tha Learned Counsel alluded to Ltugfcrea . ]
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Court—Do the Counsel for the trayersera admit that Mr . Barrett was at the Loagbwi dinner ? Mr . Wblteaide—I do not admit that Mr . Barrett waa at any meeting , except , perhaps , an Association meeting Mr . O'Connell—Tbe witness did not say be saw Barret at tbe meeting ; but be said he was at the dinner . Mr . Filzgibbon—Unless there be an attempt to dispute Identity , we will readily concede tbe fact of any of the traveraers baring been at any meeting , which in point of fact , they did really attend . [ Tbe examination was next directed to the proceed ings at the Association Meeting on the 13 th September , tb which Mr . O'Conneil moved the adoption of the address to tbe inhabitants of all tbe countries subject to
the British Crown , which was read , and the speeehea made on the occasion . The witness next detailed the proceedings at the Clifden Meeting and Dinner on Sept , 17 th at which Mr . O'ConneH , and Mr , Steele , and Dr . Gray were present He then detailed the proceedAn . a at the Association Meeting on the 27 th September , at which Dr . Gray brought np the report concerning the appoint , menfc of Arbitrators , and read tbe rules drawn np f 01 their guidance . The examination next went to the proceedings at the " Mnllaghmast Meeting "; which were substantially the same as set forth In the evidence of Mr . Bond Hnghes , tne first Crown witness After some other matters of minor import bad been detailed in the examination in chief , tbe witness fell into the hands of Mr . Jonathan Henn , Q . C ., who crossH-xaniined
as follows : —] Mr . Henn—Will you state wbat time you came to Ireland first ?—Tbe first time I came was in July , 1843 . I waa never bere before . Mr . Henn—Were you much frightened at tbe idea of coming over?—Yes , I was frightened a little . Mr . Henn—I suppose yon found tbe alarm falsa ?—Why , yes . Mr . Henn—I suppose you were paid for coming ov «; Yes . I got £ 350 . Mr . Henn—Altogether , do you mean f—I got £ 50 for the Donnybrook , and , £ 350 for attending all other meetings , and up to the next session of Par . liament Mr . Henn—You have fonnd it a profitable specula . tion T- 'Yea , I have .
Mr . Henn—Have you ever made as much money ia as short a time before 1—No , I have not ; I have sometimes done very well , sometimes not . Mr . Henn—Have you overtaken the benefit of the Insolvent Act?—I have once . Mr . Henn—Only once ! when was that ?—I wasar rested on the 251 b of June , and my petition was heard on the 25 th of July , I think ; it was some time before I came over-Mr . Henn—Yon have stated tbat tbe employment you have undertaken was suggested to you by some person on behalf of the Government—who was that person ? Sergeant Warren—I object to bis answering that question . Mr . Henn—I have a right to test the accuracy of tha witness in this way . [ A iogal argument ensued , which ended by the Court deciding that the witness must not answer . ]
Mr . Henn then proceeded witb tbe cross-examina . tfon—You bad a communication witb a person high ia office I—Yea . Shortly before you came from Enrfand , were yon in connexion with any newspaper ?—Yes , the Morning Chronicle . How long , in connexion with tbat paper ?—About a year . Does it snpport tbe present Government ?—No . Were you in connexion witb any other papei ?—N 06 at that time . Were you at any any other time ?—Yes ; tbe Times . When did your connexion with tbe Times cease ?—In 1836 . When witb the Morning Chronicle ?—After the last session of Parliament Since then , have you been engaged by any other papeiT —Yea : by the Standard .
Having been deputed by some one high in office , and while in the employment of the Morning Chronicle , you came to Ireland ? , —Yes . Well , to whom did you apply on your arrival ? You came bere to report the proceedings at the meeting held at Donnybrook—you could not report unless you bad a place on the platform to bear and see . Tell me to whom did you apply ?—I do not know . How did yon get to the meeting ?—I went there witfi a gentleman connected with tbe Dublin ' Evening Post ; be being well known did everything for me , and got me a place on tbe platform . The report of wbat occurred at Donnybrook you transcribed from the notes yon took?—Yes . Is it a full report?—As full as possible , except ia those portions to which I have referred . I understand you took a verbatim report of what you consider material ?—Yes .
You cannot be always precisely verbal ?—Ob , no ; and tbe change of a word might often make a very material difference in tbe sense of a sentence . But of those parts you did not consider material yon did not take a note ?—No . You took what you call topical notes of what took place ?—Yes . But you do not pretend to say that you even gava the substance of wbat was said in those special notes ? —I do not wa < ietatand the latter part of your question , I took notes ip such a way aa not to misrepresent the sense of tbe speaker upon those points on which he spoke ; but I do not pretend to have given the words , or anything like them . Do you prttend to aa ? yea have given even the substance of the observations made on the various topics ? —I do not know bow far the expression " substance " extends .
Mr . Henn—Why substance is substance , and it is so plain a ward tbat it could not be made plainer—( laughter ) . Did you give the substance ?—I gave the substance , or meaning of tbe observations . Of all the observations ?—O , no . Wbat then ?—Tbe discussions of these topics might have occupied twenty sentences ; but those twenty sentences might contain bnt one idea , and I only put down the idea —( a laugh 1 . What are tbe topical notes ?—The substanc 9 of the observations made on tbe various topics alluded to . Having attended at those monster meetings here , may I ask you whether you have over , in tke course of your * Iutieg in England , attended at any of the great public Meetings there ?—Not at many , bat at some of them . At any of the Anti-Corn Law League meetings ?—No , I never reported any of them .
Don't you think it very wrong that a reporter should be' called upon to give evidence ?—No , certainly not . I think a reporter should obey tbe law of the country ; and I never heatd that questioned until I heard it by some gentlemen here . 'Tis preposterous—( laughter ) . You were not always merely a reporter ?—No . You were , I believe , an editor?—I was . Were you the editor of a newspaper called the Carlisle Patriot ?—I was . About what time ?—In the years 1837 , 1838 , and
1839 . Went were the politics of that paper ?—Conservative . Are those your own politics ?—They are . Were they always so ?—Not always . For the last ten years ?—The title has not existed for teu years . But the principles might ?—True enough . What w « re you befoTO you became a Conservative ?—Why , if I intefct define it I only ask you to name it ?—Why , I answer " In moderation plains' all my glory , The Tories call me Whig—the Whigs a Tory . " I ba 7 e b ^ en complained of ( said the witness ) by some of my own family , who are strong Liberals , for being a iv . nfc Tory ; and I have been condemned by some of my Tory friends for being too much of a Liberal . —( Great lanchter . )
And perhaps , beth were right ?—Perhaps so . I can only arrive at a mean by the assertion of opposite * —( Laughter . ) I am glad you came over to Ireland to enlighten us ' . When you editod the Carlisle paper you had no objection to tt » il me what denomination of politics you belonged to?—The title existed at tbe time , designating a body cf men who entertained opinions in reference to public affaira , in which , generally , I concurred with them . If you ask what I was before that , I should say , a moderate Wkig before the ftaform Bill passed . Never had a touch of the Radical about you ?—Never ; I bad the same feeling as all yonng men in favaur of Liberal institutions , and I trust I shall always entertain it . Mr . 9 nn—And I Lops you may inspire the Government witb a similar feeling . Witness—I don't think it at all . necessary .
Were any of the members of the present Government connected with taat Carlisle paper ?—Not that I know of . You don't know who tbe proprietors were while you were editor ?—No , not one of them ( after a pause ) , except from their own statement Do you remember a prosecution of a parson named Taylor at Carlisle—Dr . Taylor—and giving evideneeon that occasion t- ^ No , I do not Yon do not . la that your answer ?—Why , if I gave any evidence , or answered any questions , it mnst fl&va been abont some very unimportant matter , for I don't recollect it Very likely : I suppose it was a topical note you took of it as you did ' nt consider it material ?¦— I took no notes at alL it was just an examinatien before magistrates .
I see your recollection is reviving . Now , I again ask were you not examined before the magistrates?—* dott't recollect that I was . Did not yea protest , npon the high authority of a reporter , that yon should not be called npon to give . evidence ?—Wlt&aas ( apparently astonished ) Ob , certainly not Are you sure of tbat ?—Sure oflt X I never did any such thing In my life . Now , you edited the Carlisle Patriot , Jn Ii 39 ?—Teff . Look at this ( handing him a printed document ) , nave you any recollection of tnat?—I have not the slightest recollection of It Was it npt published in the Patriot as a leading article ? I do not kno w . I have no recollejtion of it Can you say that that did not appear in your paper 1 —I cannot say . ( Continued in our Seventh page . )
Cijatrtis! Sntfllic^Ncc.
Cijatrtis ! Sntfllic ^ ncc .
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a TB E NOHTHF , RN ST A R . jahuary xi , i n ** .
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), Jan. 27, 1844, page 6, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct1249/page/6/
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