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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
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( Cor ^ nvedjnm our Sixth pagej of ^ eed ana Co-fcaTins reduced the tngea o ! their ^ Bras , snd treated tfcem otherwise in s most ty-^ o i manner , they all left in a body , and hands STmocnred to supply their place from the-work-TzL &S . wles off Among tiiese were several crip-^ T % ho tad to be carried in a tax-cart , belonging to garners . On the 23 rd , 24 th , and 25 th of Da-Wlast , the 25 th being Sunday , they were worked ff&esa mOasters in human shape thirty-tiro hours , w . ^ ajiowed thirteen hours and" a-half ior rest If t eas tim ^ s " Irere ^ "" ^ the C 0 BSeni ° * ^ Toot ? V Cksmnusaona 3 , it was time their authority ahonld vf abolished , and the act which gave it to . them refLjgi He ielt strongly npon this subject , knowing IvTtaaJiiy where -these transactions iad occurred , and yrijur been in communication with the parties ag-* VZr » if the Bight Hon . Baronet had seen these creatures in tne ^ aie saw
Z ^ ched ne mem , applying , JyTpreteciion Wore the magistrates , he was sure he ; f ~ ni 3 lave felt eampasaon for them , and . been of * S £ ) 3 that the Poor Law which sanctioned such pro-[ Sjrs was a disgace to the country . , £ gr J . GaiHiH was prepared to give a qualified ^ jjjjtto the motion , but deprecated the strong , harsh , > l ^ BijBsUfiable language which had been -used by the wj gjntleman , which he thonght was quite inconsis- ' kat ' ^ 23 the legitimate principles of freedom of debate . Tjefcaifl-not consent to retain in the motion the wards ; « torrect , entire , and nnmntilated . " Such expressions ; taT « ytd a direct insinuation that a public office from , t ^ gj ! the return was expected waa in the habit of j or inaccurate statements to the I ; . :
Ijjga ^ returning . £ Z £ & If , therefore , the ion . gentleman did not with-1 Jrsvr those words he should oppose the motion . He ) ^ craKe to procure a return of the letter of Mr . H . ; g ! g » neither original nor copy being to be found ] BMffz lbs records of the Poor law Commissioners . ! T ^ gas , in fact , ft private letter addressed to Mr . Chad- ; ^ t . Ihe Poor Law Commissioners did not possess i gjjja the original or a copy . Sir . Ashworth ' s letter ; _ jj in the possession of the Poor Law Commission era , j ^ fc ? -srss ready to consent to its production . With ! wpeet to the next return , as to the number of persons i ¦ fh s vere rempTed from their parishes in the sgricul- ! jQ ^ into the ^ nanuJacturing districts , nnder the sane- i vmi o ! the Poor Law Commissioners , it was impos- ; the amount of the then
! gjj to state wages they ; —jeyei , or their present residences , emplojmects , and ¦ -jres . liere Were several items in that motion of j JJ& 2 would be quite impossible for him , on the part ; rf 5 h = Pots Law Commissioners , to promise a return . I ^ gjjjiiBg that was really material , and that could be j jjjjfc-jKjd , had already been presented to the pubBc in ' S ^ TaCS Li * Commissioners * report of 1836 , p . 448 , > -jjgf ie Hon . Gentleman would find a statement e 3 & 2 j Sir . Slngeridge , the Assistant Poor Law Coxnj-sest , on this Subject In the report of 1837 there jjjsfeo a further statement on the snbjtci- He ( Sir i J . fidarn ) "Has ready to furnish any information that j jjl bjs able to obtain . With regard to the returns ; jgp-ttmgthe dietary of the Brlper and Derby Union ' ¦ ¦ JToiioEscs , he would not feel any difficulty in laying i , j ; \ I ; : ' ] ; ; j
2 > 2 B -on the table cf the Hense . As to tie last motion ; d the Hon . Gentleman , he begged to inform Mm . that I Jfcs Poor Law Commissioners were not cognizable , j directly or indirectly , of the transaction to wiich he ^ referred . If any such transaction had taken place , the CosmasaonaM were entirely ignorant of it- He must flgrmn- to granting these returns , tin ! ess the Hon . Gen- perron consented to withdraw the expressions " cor- jecl , entire , and unmutilaiea . * ' Mr . 31 . Giesos said he would not hare troubled the House , if the Hon . Member for Knaresborough ( Mr . Tensndi had not . made statements which would go lath to the public affecting parties who had no oppor- toni * 7 tit gifing the sam& publicity to the contradictions as -wosHi be afforded to the accusations . He thought it ¦ nrj desrabl-e that such dislogistic terms as the Hon . Hasher had introduced should be omitted from mations ataSUsi to that House . The Hon . Member from ; ] i
EcsrsbDrouEh hod asEerted ihit persons were " kidmppsd , ' and induced to go from the agricultural into { hi Eirnfsctariug districts by the promise of conditions ¦ sEch tad not been fulfilled ; but he was confinced that iJsir irq-airy would show the erronesusness of this f ^? -pjpr , ? - The ton . gentleman had now , as he had on teas occasions , mada asserdons which were not subisa&ted . ( Mr . P ^ rrand . — " Kame , name ; " and cries d " Order" ) . He would not go into the question now ; His thought the hon . gentleman diould be cantious in pniig enrrtney to such unmeasured censures upon infindfisls . Witb respect to one statement of the hon . jSiSJenan ha might o ' pssrrft , that agricultural labourers hidteen remoTed into the manufacturing districtsbe-4 TVbb
, ^ fl ^ O * ^» ««** v m ^ pm ^ ^^^^ v ¦* ^ IVk ^^ F ^^^^*^ B » ^^ h ^^^ B ^ H ^^ ^ fc ^ i ^^ J . K ^ r ^ V ^* IP ^^ V ^ ABBVB ^ V ^^ — cscs in these districts there 'had been an increased gassed for labour , which was coincident with a iSiElajine ^ demsnd in the agricultural districts . He btaeTid that if these labourers had not gone from the ixncalturil to the TTm-r . Tif ^ p ^ TiTiTig districts their places TDna lafB been supplied by Irish labourers , and ttii TOTld bare had a still more depressing eSecU ASa && agricultural labourers were transferred to the maiBla&Ering districts , there was a rise in the rate of tnga , sad they xeceired larger weekly wages in the ESHEfjtfuring Qian they 'Would b&Ye done in the agri-^ E ?* 7 rr * l j ' tcVM ^ Vo T 7 rk r ^ p ? eTiaj 1 Tir »^» a-wa » wirurt * ~ A ?» a < 41 w xsltosl SSricisHe wishedhowevermost directly
. , , to KJ 2 ta . dk > , the statement that there had been any " ¦ tjdnappiug , " or that the conditions in which these persens irgre traaisTexrea "to the nianuIacturiDg districts iid sot been MSilea ; and he tbeught the Hon . Hsmcer for KusresbctroBgh ought rot , especially before ' fi 2 £ xtturas Jot which he moTed were presented to the Hsrase , to make statements inTol"ring such serious tiarges . —fhesr , hear , from Mr . Ferraad ) . Dr . BcnraEfG said , that one of the gentlemen to vham the Hon . Member for Kuaresborongb had reiarred was a personal friend and constituent of his ; m 3 , harag on seTeral occations TMted that gentle-JEsn , ie fDr . Bowring ) had cad an opportunity of
Bc&ssg the condition of the labourers in his employ . 2 e could state that many of the persocs whohad been fesnsfcrred from the agriculturist districts Messed the fisy ihst hsd seen them remoTed from a state of great Stress to a condidon of compariiiTe ease and comfort . Ee vtmlh refer flje Hon . Member to the statements of 3 te . C . Taylor , who , in tha scc-Dunt of his Tist to the Esnsfscturiag distacts , repeatedly noSced ihe comfort S 3 i hsppines 3 of ths workmen employed by Mr . Ash-* ck £ . He reccminended the Hon . Member to be BsSros how he indulged in these Titnperatr ? e attacks , lit Fskeasd , in reply , said he had referred to" \ he ese of a manufacturer wha was comicted by the ma-P ^ ratss in penaliies amounting to 1252 ., and who had » reisd Ms hands from half-past 8 o'clock en
SaiBtday morning fin Sunday afternoon at 4 o ' clock . -Sow , was this niaa a monster in b ^™* " shape , or pot ? He aid not feel himself justified in withdrawing this opiEsaoa ^ and he was sure that no hon , member * onia lie his cbHiiren to be worked as hea-rily as this fiaa had woiked those whom he employed . He regretted that the hon . member for Manchester { Mr . Gibson ) ™ nM hare repeated to-night a statement be made a p » gTenmaago—that he ( Mr . PerrandJmade assertions ttQalbonBe ^ jjjenhe j ^^ -been UJa ^ iB to pr 0 Te . He caalle ^ edthe hon . member , and any gentleman on the < £ poste ads of the house , to adduce 8 single instance m -ffmch he had made assertions which he had cot bsea able to prpr-. Sir . Gibsos slid the Hon . Member for Knaresbro '
« aaage-ch 3 rges against the Hon . Member for Stock- *« i ^ r . Cobdsn ) which he had not substantiated . The Jim . Member had also made charges against mannfac-™ res camettea with the Anti-Com Law League , that *« T " » ere tiprcaDy the supporters of tha truck system , ¦^ against sham did the Son . Member proTe this « srro la the eomndtte © bB obtained ? Aa far as he £ *; ««>» odi was aware , the charge was not proTed ^^^ 7 Member of the Anti-Corn Law League ; it ^ p **! only against two manufacturers in Lanca-¦ sae , who were of CoEserraUTe poliaes , and opposed 5 * TMsSnn hsTing been put , - "J -txxaAyD expressed las surprise to hear that the ^^^ fCem tras prored against only two manufac-^ a ^ ia Lsnadiire . He conid tell the Eon . Member las iw ? I ! roTed against scores of manufacturers in
Chf *?™* * 3 modified » »«« then ordered « n tteaoSon of Mr , PerraBd , a return was ordered j ^ I 7 of the comction of a firm of cotton-Epin-^^ cwying onbuEiness at the Low-mill , Addingham , fia Srm ^ Slfi ™ f ° * Torkshire , and trading under Sjjb ^ « Seed ana Go-, upon tbe iniormaticn of Mr . , 3 * Bsker , Inspector cf Factories , for haiing « a thai m 2 l hands on Friday , Saturday , and r * t v . jae 23 rd , 24 lh , and 25 th days of December " ^ a'TiolaSon ° the F ^ clories Act 1 t g * J- SiAHAM broBght in the Registration Bill " ^» ss reaa a first time , and ordered to be read a t o ?? t ! l ? Icald » 7 » ert-^ X f ; S ^ TO * bronehj in the Turnpike Koads Bill , fe ^ 12 ? ^ ad s Srst time , aad ordered to be read a * gj tee on Monday . , ^^ "Hoasa ^ aa adjourned at half-past twelve 3
TUESDAY , Feb . 21 . * ^^ 5 C 03 iSi : presented a petition , agreed to at jjjjjT . meeting of the inhabitants of Bath , praying . Haay ate ^ confinct of Lord Abinger when ^^ f ^^ Special Commission . U -KKSBajd uresented a -Detitioa from a hand :
feg !?}* <* Manchester , stating that be had been ] ta bf 2 _ ** I > 0 . lrer-1 « IH 1 » of t ^ -e means of earning i \ / s £ r ?> « ad praying that ths House -would grant pro-^^ ^ aboax . ' j ^ 'OXDUCT CF LOBD ABINGEB . 1 is ^^ PECHKU . presented a petition from certain ifciSS tlf Brighton , praying that an inquiry might j AkTZ" ^! into the conduct of lori Abinfer at the i
4 ^^« tte 3 ai « Special Commissian ; and that if the j ^^ asai urt-Mm were proved , the HonBe -would ; l 5 St *; . i " ^ to ber 3 dajesty , entreating her to = Jtocj , ^ ^^ ssrere displeasurs the Lord Chitf ! ^^ r ttS . to iee 2 ae J ^ oicial bench pure and ; aoa ^ ^;^ cokbe said he rose in pnii nan ee of the < tf ij-6 W ° ® *** ™ toapyance with the wishes ! g ,, ^ " ^ of Ms coBntrymen txpreaed to him , to ) afeaa ^ % ^^ &rtS to tbe public , by calling the } lotfl ChirfT . ^^ ^^ ^ sansr in which the j J n % dtiriTM , 'X ? - ^ ' ^ er discharged hia duty as a "SBS arf i- shx& Special Cosmission issued for the ) ltie » fionoftT ? sbire and Cheshire . In asking the ; *** flftsmv HoBEeto this subject , he didsotprefer i "a cu own account , but he imuleied it on the i
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part of millions of tbe nnprotected , nrenfrancklsed pooi I among their fellow-mbjects . He waa saHsfiedheshonld ! not make this ^ appeal in Tain , especially when he con-; sideretf that in former daya , if there wn one subject ; more than another on which the House of Commons , had been zealous , it was tbe administraBon of justice . Their first object h ^ d ever been to keep that pure , ana to watch the manner in which the judges appointed by the Crown held the scales of justice between the preroi gatiTea < £ the Sovereign on tbe one hand and the rights : of the people on the otfeer . Nsw , the charges he had : to make against Lord Chief Baron Abinger ' a conduct on j the special commission were , that he had discharged his ; dulyin a manner that was partial , unconstitutional , and j oppressive to those who were brought before him—that
: ne discharged it in a rancorous , Kialignant , poUtical , and i party Bplrit to the prisoners who were placed at the bar Lof the court over which he presided . Daring the last ; session of Parliament a case connected with the admi-} lustration of justice in Ireland was bronght before the House by the Right Hon . and Learned Member for ¦ Dungarvon , and he remembered that on that occasion a chargB of Lord Chief Justice Bushe was read , wherein ! he stated , that if there was a casa in which the conduct of the law officers of the Crown or of the Judges was to oe canvassed , the House of Commons was that place . : He now begged , therefore , in conformity with the declaration of that learned judge , to call their attention =-to the conduct of the Lord Chief Bar&n . He knew
not whether honourable gentlemen had forgotten the feeling raise * among tbe pnbllts—the storm of indignation and disgust excited among all men out ef that House at least—at the charges which Lord Abinger delivered , and the manner in which that judge summed up the evidence in several cases , as welljas the sentences which hfi passed on the unfortunate prisoner * . The House might have forgotten the feeling that then existed ; but , at all events , if they bad , he should feel it Ms duty to refresh tbeir memories , and he knew no better mesas of testing public opinion , and ascertaining its direction , than by showing what waa the opinion of the pufelic pr « s on this occasion . If that press were at all a reflection of public opinion , or if there were the most distant foundation in truth for the articles which then appeared in its organs , he said it would become the bounden duty of that House to institute a full inquiry into the charges he had to make . He challenged any Honourable Gentleman to show him
a single organ of the press , high Tory , Whig , Radical , Chartist , high church or low church , which approved of the conduct of Lord Abinger on that oceasion . He must say that the manner in which the public press treated the Chief Justice Tindal on the Basis occasion was highly creditable to them . If he had a deubt as to the view he was about to take of these charges , and of the conduct of Lord Abinger , he need only qnote a passage irosi the Times , which condemned the charges of Lord Abinger in tbe strongest terms . In the first place he might observe that every portion of the press , whether daily , periodical , London , or prorincial ,. was loud in its censure and in inveclives agsinst the conduct of Lord AbiB&er . What said that widea "was called the leading journal of Europe ? HBd it a a word to say In favour of Lord Abinger ? Having csntrasted the charge of the Lord Chief Baron with that of Chief Jnstice Tindal , the writer proceeded : —•• Speaking constitutionally , this
j j j j | ¦ ! ¦ j j ¦ | was not the voice of an individual—it is not even \ simply the voice of one in authority—it is the voice of ] the common lsw of England . " In another article pubj ~ liBhed in the Times , in which comments were made on I some speeches delivered &t public meetings , which he ' ( Mr . T , Dancembe ) attended , and where the charges of ] Lord Abiagtr were severely condemned , the writer , 1 having" found fault with those speeches , said—• ' We [ must guard ourselves from being supposed to express ¦ : unqualified opinion of all that Lord Abinger has j said or done in the performance of his trying office . j We are inclined to regret the severity of some of those ! punishments with which he has visited many of the subordinates in this ill-judged and ill-fated rising . We
regret that acts , scarcely amounting to tumultuous | begging , and with no proof of violence , should in i these excited times have been visitedwith transportation , I which , as in cases of robbery , has been awarded . " Taking i the other side of the question , he would refer to the ! language of the Morning Chronicle . £ Here Sir Robert Peel smiled . ] The Right Honourable Baronet might I smile . He unhesitatingly dared to say the Right | Honourable Baronet did not approve of all the j sentiments expressed in the Morning Chronicle , &nj ! more than he did perhaps always approve those of the \ Times . , The Morning Chronifle said , after the opening of tie Liverpool sittings : —~ If the Bentiments attributed I to Lord Abinger in report * of his previous charges are
| objectionable , those attxibnted to him in this last charge j are infinitely more so . Indeed , we can hardly conceive . it possible to cram a greater number of questionable—! nay , absurd propositions into the sime space . We pass I over tbe insinuation levelled at the Anti-Corn Law s League in the allusion to the ' schemes of persons who > considered that a general turn oat might be advan-\ tageous to their peculiar political objects , 'and proceed at ' once to notice some of the gross mis-statements con-) tained in this report . It is always onr wish to be able j to . treat witb reverence those who are clothed with ¦ judicial authority . Had Lord Abinger , in his charges ,
| i imitated the wisdom and moderation of Chief Justice | Tindal , he should equally have commanded our appro-I bition . But tbe Noi > le and Learned Lord has chosen i to qoit that path in which he cuuld tread securely , for | one in which his gait is most unseemly . It is not for ! a Judge to propound from , bis judgment-seat doctrines ' of a questionable character ; and if any one Judge is | less than another entitled to dogmatise on subjects such ! as- those we have noticed—it is L « rd Abinger . i When in the House of Commons , he was ' ¦ never able to rise to the level of aBy general question , and in the House of Lards he has never dis-! tinffnishefl himself bv the comDrehensiveness of his
¦ ¦ j views . ' The Morning Herald spuke on this subject as j follows : — " We doubt whetner the mode of giving some j of the matter contained in these charges publicity and ; circulation is very judicious and appropriate . His j Lordship ' s charges at Chester and Liverpool do not read i so judicially as tbat of Sir Nicholas Tindal at Stafford : | they occasionally travtl out of tbe records b-fore bis ' Lordship , and wander into the regions occupied by ; political controversialists ; they aim at more than is , perhaps strictly within the province of a charge to the j Grand Jury , and discuss subjects which will not assist the Noble Judge ' s auditory in disposing of tbe bills 1 brought before them . Lord Abinger ' s addresses are , in short , what are termed political charges . * * : ' Proper things in their proper places' is a homely ! adage ; Chief Ju > tice Tindal ' s charge is an admirable L illustration of it ; Lord Abinger's charges here and , there tff = nd asjainst it . * * * The Lord ; Chief Baron demoted but small portions of his addresses to an exposition of the law ; he rushed at once into political considerations , indulged in disquisitions on the ten . ets of a kind of men called Chartists '—declaimed against democracy generally—declared the adoption of ; the Charter to be equivalent to the destruction of the Monarchy—suggested that the Goveromeat was most lenient in net instituting indictments for high treason in many of tbe cases to be tried . " The Morning Advertiser also condemned , in very strong terms , the conduct of Lord Abinger . They were as ; follow : — " Lord Abinger ia proving himself to be to the Tory Government what his LordEhip appositely
described Suisse to be to the Marquis of Hertford— ' an invalnable servant , * to whom no dirty work comes amiss . Yesterday we commented upon his Lorship ' s charge to the Grand Jnry at Chester , and to-day we rtfer to the report in another part of onr paper of a similar charge on opening the Special Commission in Liverpool . We have no hesitation in pronouncing both of these charges a disgrace to tbe bencb , whereto the public have been taught to look rather for an impartial and temperate exposition of tbe law , than for political disquisitions , or such Uberticide harangues as those by which Lord Abinger has desecrated it- We have already expressed our conviction that the object of the Tories is to suppress all expression of public wrongs and opinion ,, under pretence of quelling insurrectionary manifestations , and Lord Abinger ' s charges most fearfully confirm this apprehension . By his Lordship ' s
exposition of the law , the mere fact of seeking any change in tht system of government , by means calculated to alarm the authorises , is equivalent to an overt act of treason ; bo that the people , in such case , have nothing to do but to bug their cbaiss , lest their very rattling might" disturb the repose of their task-masters . We have merely space thus briefly to direct attention to the speech preparatory to the analysis , exposure , and denunciation of its flagrant aggression against the constitutional rights of the people . " Tbat was the opinion of the London press ; he would take just one instance from a provincial journal , the Macd&fieM ChronicU . vMch said—" Lord Abinger delivered a lengthy charge to the grand jury at Liverpool , on Monday , which for bigotry and violence of language , f * r exceeded his former one . It was composed almost entirely of attacks upon the Anti-Corn Law League and tbe Chartists . This Learned Jndge ^—thirfrenegade
Whig—! | vents his Toryism in the most ignorant comments upon Free Trade , and takes upon himself to be the guardian \ par excellence of pnbdc opinion . We venture to assert , ; tnat there is scarcely a single man , whose office leads him to- animadvert upon human wickedness , in whose history will be found crowded a greater mass of political : infamy . ** That was the language of the public press , the voice of public opinion , which was certainly not gifposed , unless on good grounds , to undervalue jndi' cial anthority . Could we expect that the bench would retain any share of pnblic respect , or of the anthority which should belong to it , if just grounds were afforded for such imputations en its occupants . He bad the firmest belief that he could prove the charges brought against Lord Abinser to b » well founded , if the House wculd grant bis demand for inquiry . It would
ill become the Honaa to lefnse such a request . He believed ths motion ha was about to make was strictly founded -on precedent , and conformable to tbe usage which had obtained in similar cases of ancient date . There had been numerons instances in former tames of the punishments of judges who had been brought before the bar of that House . Judges who had misconducted them ? elves had been fined , imprisoned , and removed , and he might say had been executed . He was not asking the House £ t the present moment to prenounce any opinion open the guilt or innocence of tbe Learned Lord ; but if he ( Mr . Duncombe ) could prove at the bar of the Houbb * Yt » t ttat Learned Lord had been guilty of the charges which he ( Mr . Dnncombe ) imputed to him , it must be the opinion of every man that the Learned Lord was tnwcrtLy to act in his judicial capacity .
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Without going back to ancient times for precedents , le { Mr . Duneombei would advert to theme of more recent date . In the case of Kenrick , who was a Surrey Magistrate and a Welsh Judge , Mr . now Lord Denman , made a motten in the Hoose very similar to that of which he ( Mr . Dancombe ) had given notice , which waa to call witnesses to the bar in confirmation of charges brought forward . That metion was agreed to unanimously . There was a little coquetting , it was true ; but the case vras so good , that the Right Hon . Baronet now-: sitting opposite , at last consented that an inquiry should be instituted into the conduct of this Magistrate and Judge . The result of the inquiry was , that Mr . Denman moved a vote of censure . The Right Hon . Baronet then moved , as an
amendment , that the committee having heard evidence in support of the allegations of the petitioners , and having heard counsel on behalf of Mr . Kenrick , did net think it necessary to recommend to the House the institution of any further proceedings . There the matter dropped ; but he ( Mr . Dnncombe ) believed that the general expression of feeling was so strong against the conduct of Mr . . Kenrick , that he resigned his judgeship , although he remained in the commission of the peace . The next casa to which he would advert , was that of Baron Smith , against whom certain charges were made in the year 1834 ; the first was neglect of duty , insomuch as he had kept his court sitting too iate at night , while he had not attended it sufficiently early in the morning ; and the second charge was , the introduction
of political topics in his charge to the grand juries in Ireland . That case was brougbt under the consideration of the House by the Hon . and Learned Member for the county of Cork . Now he ( Mr . Duncombe ) apprehended that all he had at present to do was to establish a prima facie case for inquiry ; for he did not iask the House to prejudge the question . TbaS was the position taken by the Noble Lord then , as now , Secretary for the Colonies , and who he ( Mt . Dancombe ) regretted was not now in his place , in the case of Baron Smith . Now he ( Mr . Daacombe ) contended that hia ease was stronger than that brought forward by Mr . O'Ccnnall { against Baron Smith . He ( Mr . Duncombe ) complained not only of the topics introduced into the charges of Lord Abfnger , but of his summing up before
the petty jury , and Mb conduct—he ( Mr . Dancombe ) had almost s * id , his brutal conduct—towards the prisoners at the bar , in passing sentence upon them . In the case of Baron Smith , it was urged that s sufficient case had not been made out ; for the inquiry ; but Lord Stanley tthen Mr . Secretary Stanlayi , in answer to that said : " Whatever circumstances of palliation—wbut-PVbt circumstances of justification , there may be , depend upon it this case cannot stand without inquiry and investigation . " Now , that was exactly -what he ( Mr . Duncombe ) said with relation to Lord Abingei . Mr . Secretary Stanley went on to say : — " It cannot so stand—it ought not so to stand ; and the Hon . and Learned Gentleman who expresses tuoh . auxiety to support tha due authority of the law , and the upright
and fair administration of justice in Ireland , may believe me when I say—which I do most cduscientiously , as from the bottom of my heart—that that authority , and that support axe best given and best secured by taking care that , if possible , no doubtful cases shall occur , and that if they do occur , no attempt shall be made to prevent a full and public inquiry into them . Sir , it is with this view , wishing to cast no imputation on Baron Smith , for whom I entertain the most unfeigned respect , still less desirous of doing ' anything to subvert the authority of tbe law , and leaBt of all desirous of acceding to anything that might countenance agitation in Ireland , whether political or predial , and believing that the support of the law and the authority of justice aiay be best maintained by allowing a due exercise of
control to the public opinion and the public sentiment , by showing tbat in tbe British House of Commons the interests of IrisL justice are not less attended to than the interests ot English justice ; I say , Sir , that it is with this view , and on this ground , that while I should resist any motion that tended to remove with ignominy this Judge from the bencb , at the same time I do say , that in my conscientious judgment , a case has been made out for inquiry into the circumstances in question , and for examining whether any justification may be adduced , or that which on the face of it appears to me a deviation from the ordinary duties of a judge . The Hon . and Learned gentleman says , if we grant this inquiry , we condemn Sir WLliarn Smith We do no such thing . All we admit is , tbat upon the
face of the thing there » a ground for enquiry . I impute no cerrupt motive ^—I impute nothing at aL ; all I say is , that there has been laid before me on the one hand , and not denied on the other , a case of deviation front that which I consider to be the strict line of a judge's duty . It is for that judge , and for those who defend him , to show whether that charge can or not be satisfactorily refuted . AH that can be said is , that there ib a prima fade case for inquiry . " The House would remember that , after the lapse of three weeks or a month after that debate , a motion was made by the Right Hon . Baronet opposite ( Sir £ . Knatchbull ) , that considering tke length of time Baron Smith had been on the bench—that he had served his country for thirty years , and that this was the first time his conduct
had been questioned , the vote for appointing a select committee to inquire into the allegations should be rescinded . Bat even that was resisted by the N ^ ble Lord opposite , then Mr . Stanley , and the motion tsaa carried by a majority of six . after a long debate . And upon what occasion were the expressions of Mr . Stanlay ?— " I say that I have not that fear which the Hon . Baronet ( Sir E . Knatchbull ) expresses , of subjecting the administration of justice to the caprice of a popular assembly . If the House of Commons wish to have all the statements brougbt before them , on which they should think a sufficient couse made out for instituting an ir . quiry , they should desire to be made more particularly acquainted , not only with the facts tbat can be alleged on the one side , bat with the
justifications which may be tendered on the other , in order that they may be enabled to decide whether the matter be of that weight and im portauco which should lead them to take any ulterior steps . " There w .. s another speech upon the case of Biron Smith , delivered by a Noble Lord then an honourable member of this bouse , of whose integrity and of tbe value of whose opinion be I Mr . Dnncombe ) apprehended there could be no dispute . He alluded to the then Solicitor-Genera * , now Lord Cottenham . That Noble and Learned person delivered bis Bentiments thus : — " It appears he wantonly delivered what must be considered a political party harangueinsulting to many of the grand jurymen who heard it , both with regard to polities and to religion . In England , no such practice prevails ; and to avoid all
temptation to the Judge to become a partisan , it is considered inconsistent with etiquette that the bar should be present whilst he is delivering his charge . * It is the duty of the Judge to instruct the grand jury on the subject of tha bills about to be brought before them , and not to enter into political matters , or make an harangue on doctrines and opinions , with respect to which many Of the jurymen might think very differently from himself . It seems to me tbat if this practice were to obtain a foof ing , a grand juryman might get up and answer my Lord Judge : he might say— ' My Lord , I am of a different party in politics ; I am of a different religion : ' and I should like to see tbe judge who would have the hardihood to commit such a juryman , True , the judge might in
answer say— ' This ib not a debating club , but a court of justice , and you must not reply upon the bencb : ' but might not the juryman , in retnrn , inform bis lordship that he Bbould have considered that before he made his inflammatory harangue ? Tbe bon . and learned member for Dablin says , he is prepared to prove bis case ; and if it should be proved , I say that this judge ought no longer to remain in the seat of judgment . It is not proposed that we shonld immediately address tbe Crown to remove him ; the result of the inquiry may be to prove that the bos . and learned member is misinformed , and that there is no gronnd for the allegations which he has made . I earnestly pray that the learned judge may be honourably acquitted of the charges brougbt against him , if they be not well founded ; and if that should
be the result , he will return to Ireland in triumph , justified in tbe course he has pursued It seems to me that , in justice to Mr . Baron Smith , we are imperatively called on to grant this inquiry . " The noble lord , the member for the city of London , whom be ( Mr . Duncombe ) was sorry not to ses in his place , also spoke , on tbat occasion , in favour of the inquiry . There was , indeed , one individual in the House , at the time , who violently opposed all inquiry into the conduct of Baron Smith and that individual was—Sir James Scarlett—( hear , hear , and laushttr ) . what were the Bentiments he then expressed ? Sir James Scarlett said , "I conceive that a metion for a select committee to inquire into the conduct of a judge is one which no Government should support "' — ( But the
Government did support it—{ bear , heax . and a laugh ) : the Right Honourable Baronet the Sacretary of Swte for tbe Home Department was then a member t f the Government , but having voted against them , retired about that time ) . Sir James Scarlett proceeded to say , ' —which no Government could support unless they have first made an investigation , and are prepared to say they think it a fit case to be followed up by an address for his dimissaL You may declaim about tbe independence of tbe judges ; but if a judge whose honour and integrity are questioned , even though he should have committed an indiscretion which may make him the object of odium to a particular party , is aot supported by the Government , he will not have the courage to do his duty . I venture to say that if this motion be carried the judges in Ireland , if they have any independence , will all resign . " Resign . ' Bat not one of them did resign —( laughter and cheering )! Sir James Scarlett went on to say , " I hope that no
gentleman in the House will give his vote on this matter as if it were a party question . No man detests a political judge more than I da—( great laughter ) . No man , in my opinion , ought to be made a judge on account of his politics —( hear , hear)— -at an rate , he ought not to cany them with him on the bench "—( hear , and cheers ) . Why , if Sir James Scarlett spoke his real sentiments , Lord Abinger must by this time be beginning to hate himself most mortally —( Laughter and cheering )—for he ( Mr . Dancombe ) could prove that wo man bad indulged in politics more than Sir James Scarlett , and that ho had carried them with him to the judgmentseat both at Liverpool and Chester—( bear , hear ) . He ( Mr . Duncombej had alluded to- the charge of Lord Chief Justiee Tindal ; and he Vonld remind the House that that Learned Judge had , in his charge at Stafford , pointed out exactly what t * e believed ought to be tbe conduct of a Judge , particularly when tngaged on an important and mclaBchwIj occasion . si . ch la that
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upon which he was then addressing the Grand Jury . His Lorship ' s words were as follow : — " Gentlemen , — It has already been intimated that we conceive it to be no part of our province on thwvoccasioa to discuss the justice of the complaints mide by tbe workmen against their employers , or to decide upon the merits of the dispute existing between them . Neither is it part of our duty to show by argument that the coarse pursued by the parties who thought themselves aggrieved was of all others the least calculated to accomplish—on the contrary , perhaps , the . most likely to dtfaat—she very object which they , wished to attain . Nor , again , are we called upon to suggest or to discuss any remedies which may be provided by law for the prevention of similar mischiefs , if , unfortunately , at any future time
the same ground of dispute should arise between masters and workmen—a discussion which is better fitted for a legislative assembly than for the members of this tribunal , to whom the only duty alloted is that of declaring the law as it stauds at present . Our direct and more useful course will , therefore , be to endeavour to expound the law aa it applies itself to the soveral cases arisng out of these unhappy transactions , upon which you will be required to exercise your judgments , in order that you may arrive at a just conclusion whether sufficient appears in oaoh individual case to call upon the parties accused to appear bsfore a jury of the country . " No man , he ( Mr . Duncombe ) apprehended , would dispute the soundness of the doctrine thus laid do » n .
And here he could not forbear mentioning one anecdote of the conduct pf Lord Chief Justice Tindal in reference to these trials . At one time a solicitors clerk , engaged in defending a prisoner , had occ . ision to leave the court , and on attempting to return was stopped by the door-keeper , who toid him that by order of the sheriff he was not to be permitted to enter , because be was a Chartist , Appeal was instantly made to the judge , and he was told that free ingress and egress had been denied to the solicitor ' s clerk to and from his client Lord Chief Justice Tindal said , " Throw open the doors immediately * We know nothing of Chartists here . " ( CUeera . ) But go from the court at Stafford to that of Chester or of Liverpool , and it would be found thai nothing was in the mouth of Lord Abinger but
Chartism and Chartists . Now if Lord Chief Justice Tindal were right , it followed that Lord Abinger must have been wrong . Lord Chief . Justice Tindal must have said what he did , in order to gain for the prisoners a fair trials Ha ( Mr . Thomas Dancombe ) now came to the charges delivered at Liverpool and Chester ; and here he must cont 9 ud judges had no business to express their own opinions upon doctrines , nor to strain the law to meet those opinions . He was confirmed in that view by an authority v ? hleb he apprehended the Houbo would not dispute—he meant the Attorney-General Thurlow , aftorwarda Lord Chancellor , on the Duchess of Kingston ' s trial , in the House of Lords , in 1776 : — " I do desire to press this upon your Lordships , as an universal maxim , no more dangerous
idea can creep into the wind of a judge than the imagination that he is wiser than the law . I confine this to no judge , whatever be his denomination , but extend it to all . Ingenious men may strain the law very fat , but to perveit it—to new model it—the genius of our Constitution says judges have no such authority , nor shall presume to exercise it ! " Now he ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) asserted tbat Lord Abinger had assumed such authority , and had presumed to exercise it . The two charges delivered by Lord Abinger at Chester and at Liverpool were much the same , except that that at Liverpool went beyond the one delivered at Cheater . Upon that , therefore , he ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) Bhould principally take' his stand , although he might read one or two passages
from the Chester charge , to ehow the animus of tbe Judge throughout these trials . — " You will find tbat there is a society of persons who go by tbe name of Chartists , and who , if they have not excited or fomented those outrages , which will be brought under your notice , have , nevertheless , Ttaken advantage of them for their own purposes , have endeavoured to prevent the unfortunate people from returning to tbeir worJt , and sought so to direct them tbat they might be conducive to the attainment of political objects . And what is the object of the Charter , which-these men are seeking ? What are the points of the Charter ? Annual Parliaments , Uuiveraal Suffrage , and Voto by Billot Yet , gentlemen , you will fiud , by the evidence which will be produced before you , that it has been inculcated upon
many misguided persons tbat th « sovereign remedy for all abuses , and . tbe only means of putting themselves in possession of such a share of power as would enable them to vindicate their own rights and secure themselves against oppression , is by the enactment of what they call the People ' s Charter . " Was there any Member of that House who would get up in his place and say that the advocacy of the object mentioned is an illegal act—( hear , hear , hear )? Lord Abinger went on to say—* ' What a strange effect , then , would the establishment of a system of Universal Suffrage produce 1 for under it every man , though possessing' no property , would have a voice in the choice of tbe representation of the people . The necessary consequences of this sjstem would be , that those who have no property would make
laws for those who have property , and the destruction of the Monarchy and Aristocracy must necessarily ensue . '' Not satisfied with libelling those who were favourable to tbe principles of the Charter , the Learned Lord actually went out of bis way to attack the institutions of America , His Lordship said— " In the different states cf . America there are pure democratic associations , elected by Universal Suffrage and Vote by Ballot ; and some of these states bave recently exhibited the regard paid to property by democratic assemblies , by having protested against paying the public creditor , and disregarded their own obligation to obey tbeir own law ma le for his security . If such a system of democracy were established in Eagland , the first consequence would be , that tbe security of property
would be removed , the public creditor and all commercial accumulations would be destroyed ; and > finally , or , perhaps , the first object aimed at would be the destruction of property in land ; there would be an universal agrarian law . " Now , if this was not political doctrine , he ( Mr . T . Dancombe ) would like to know what was . For what purpose was that point put to the Grand Jury , unless it were for the purpose of prejudicing aot only their minds , but those ef the Patty Juries Who were to follow , against the prisoners to be placed at the bar ? How could tbe Judge know that some of the gentlemen ha was addressing were not holders of tbat very ba . uk stock , and wh ? , unfortunately for themselves , had lost the whole of their money , and that by his remarks their minds
would be prejudiced , when be told them that the parti es they were to try were seeking changes , which , if effected , would place them , the public creditors , In tbe same position as the holders of publio funds in America ?—( hear , hear ) He ( Mr . Duncombe ) would ask if it was a fair argument to put to a Jury , and whether a Judge did not travel eut « -f his way in alluding to such a subject at all?—iheav , hear ) If this Noble and Learned Lord had not gone into Liverpool , and followed up bis abominable and unconstitutional doctrines , ia his ( summing up before the Petty Jury , he ( Mr . Duncombe ) should not have thought it worth while to pall the attention of the House to the subject . But when he followed the Noble and Learned Lord iuto Liverpool , ha found him indulging there in exactly
the same style of language , nay , if possible , still more rancorous and malignant against the parties be attacked . He was quoting the reports of the Times newspaper , and as he understood that upon tbe occasion of tbe commission that jonraal sent down one or two of the most eminent , reporters to take the proceedings , their report was , no doubt , more conect than if furnished by Lord Abinger himself . He ( Mr . Dnncombe ) would prove that these repsrta , and more than these reports , were correct , for Lord Abinger went even beyond what was reported , and that , in shame of the Judge , some passages were suppressed [ so we understood the Honourable Member , who spoke rather indistinctly at this part of his speech J The Noble and Learned Lord indulged in a hit at the Anti-Corn Law
League . Upon that point he said he would not enter , but leave tbat Association to settle taeir dispute with the Learned Lord : — " Much bas been said of tbe privations to which the wording classes have been reduced , and I make no doubt that they are considerable , for it cannot be denied that many of the usual channels of trade have been interrupted , and there was existing a general feeling of despondency among commercial aieu as to the advantage of engaging in commercial enterprises , the result of which was attended with great uncertainty ; but I am bound to say . from the experience I have acquired as to the history of this insurrection in a neighbouring county , that that distress his been greatly exaggerated . " Now he ( Mr . Dancombe ) thought that House had , during the
present session , given a practical contradiction to the allegation that tbe distress of the people could be exaggerated . The Noble and Learned Lord went on— " It aiems that a society of persons , who are recognised by the title of Chartists , have endeavoured to persuade them that the true remedy for all their grievances , was the adoption of what they call , the Charter , which appears to be principally aimed at a larger Reform of Parliament than has already been adopted ; and , in defiance of the promises , and no doubt the sincere hopes , ef those persons who introduced aud carried tbe late Reform of Parliament , that it was to be a final , efficacious , and satisfactory measure of Reform , these infatuated persons—for they als » must be infatuatedhave formed an opinion , grounded on what foundations I know not , that a representation created by Universal Snffrage and "Fete by Ballot , together with the Payment of Members of Parliament , would be a panacea for all evils , and endeavour to inculcate these
doctrines on the assembled multitudes they address ; and to persuade them that to perpetuate the insurrection against their uiaatera , and to make it universal , was the best means of getting tbe Charter . They mixed up with their orations many affected recommendations to pesce and order ; but , gentlemen , yon will find these recommendations always accompanied by false and exaggerated statements of the general feeling of the country . I must say , gentlemen , that if these conspiracies , having such purposes in view , had been made the subject of prosecutions for High Treason , the consequences might have been serious indeed to the parties concerned . I am at a loss to know what distinction there is between a conspiracy to subvert the Government , and impose force and restraint on all the branches of legislature on purpose to bave a particular measure passed into a law , and the crime of High Treason . " So it appeared we were to fca *? e ft new sort of treason—the advocacy of
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the Charter . " I do not understand that the Government intend to push the indictment to that extent , and these people owe it to the lenity of the Government that they are not pat in a position hszu-dous to their lives . " Had it then come to this , that the advocacy of the Ballot , Universal Suffrage , Electoral Districts , Payment of Members , aud Annual Parliaments , is High Treason ? He was not now j contending whether those principles were good or bad , but he said it was tbe constitutional right of Englishmen to discuss these important subjects , and a grand jury was not to ba told by a learned judge , who might probably be cf bigotted and rabid Tory principles , that it was little short of high treason to : advocate certain principles , and that they were indebted to the lenity of the Government that they would j not be arraigned for high treason . He ( Lord Abinger ) had forgotten that at so late a period as the year ] 1789 those very
principles of the Charter had baenj advocated by the Duke of Bedford , the Duke of JRichinond , Lord Salkirk , and others . Lord Abinger [ went on to say"A great deal has been sud at different times us tu what should be considered an unlawful assembly ; and , I am sorry to say , that what has takeu place in this country has given rhu to discussion on the point , both in courts of law and in Parliament , j But one thing is clear—that an assembly consisting of such multitudes as to make all discussion and debate ! ridieulous and a farce never can be assembled for the purpose of deliberate and calm discussion . Will any person in bis senses say tbat when a man assembles together 3 000 or 4 , 000 individuals , he does so to form a deliberative assembly , to discuss speculative points either of law . or government ? Such a profession would carry with it its own refutation . If , therefore , an assembly consists of such multitudes as to render all notion of
serioua debate impossible ; or , if you find that at such an assembly all attempts at debate are put down , and that the only object of the parties is to bear one side , the meeting ceases to be an assembly for deliberation , and cannot protect itself under that pretension . '' Was that the Learned Lord's definition of an unlawful assembly ? He ( Mr . Duucombe ) asked those who attended county elections , whether 3 JO 0 O or 4 , 000 , and even 10 , 000 , did not assemble ; and whether they did not deliberate upon aud discuss the merits of the candidates 1 Lord Abinger went on— " Tbe consequence of the success of tbeir endeavours ; would be , not a reform of Parliament , but ia subversion cf the Government ; because everybody who rt fleets on such things knows that the establishment
of any popular assembly entirely devoted to democratic principles , and elected by persons the vast majority of whom possess no property , but live by manual Jabcur , wouJd be innonsistect with the existence of the monarchy and the aristocracy . Its first aim would be the destruction of property and the overthrow of the throne , and the result would be tho creation of a tyranny so intolerable , that the very persons who assisted ia establishing it , would be the first to put it down ; and out of the confusion whioh would ensue , would possibly result a military des potism . Yo i will excuse me for using this language to * gentlemen of your description ! " The learned lord apologised for the language he used , and well he might . Why . those were the old arguments
which were used at the time of ! the Reform Bill —( hear , hear ) ;—these anticipations of the throne and the aristocracy being in danger were all put forth as arguments against the Reform Aot and its opponents , and now they are used against the Charter by a judge on the bencb . Wjth regard to the discussion of points like this , he ( Mr . Duncombe ) would quote an authority which Hon . Gentlemen , on the opposite side would not , he apprehended , dispute •—he meant that of the learned Attorney-General himself , ( Sir Frederick Pollock , ) [ at the trials at Newport , when defending Frost , in ! 1840 . The Hon . and Learned Gentleman said , " I have not seen the Charter , and hardly know what is meant by a 4 Chartist . ' I hear of its points and articles , and I learn from tho newspapers that Chartists carry their views beyond the Reform Act established by Lord
Grey's government . Among the articles spokon of are universal suffrage , vote by ballot , annual parlia ments , and no property qualification ; with respect to these I do not agree with the Chartists ; but upon th » 8 e subjects their opinions are | entertained by many members of Parliament of undoubted respectability and integrity , and of considerable talent , and—if it be true what I have heard on the subject —the names of many are attached to a document , the avowed object of which ia to frame what , is called the Charter of the People , by expounding their principles on these points . Gentlemen , I have abstained from mentioning any name unconnected with the cause , from uttering any observation which could give offence to any one who is absent , or using my privilege—I ought to Bay my duty—so as to create ~ any feeling of pain or uneasiness to any one absent , and I am sure 1 shall fulfill the duty which 1
owe to Mr . Frost better and more to his entire satisfaction , if I refrain from making any one remark which could create a moment's pain with respect to any past conduct or transaction . These Chartists , however , gentlemen , it must be admitted , stand at present in relation \ o the present constitution as it was established ia 1832 J ju . t as the advocates of reform stood in relation to the old constitution , which was remodelled by the Reform Act . " — ( hear , bear , and cheers . ) "And ! however I may differ from these who are called Chartists in opinion , I must do them the justice to say , that Chartism so far is not treason—Kiheers)—nor tho assertion , the publio assertion of it ,
rebellion—( renewed cheers)—and I must go ; further and say tbat although I trust I shall never live to see the day , and I trust that nobody in whom I take any interest will live to see the day , fatal a * I think it will be to the happiness , the prosperity , and ' the well-being of this country , when these principles shall be established ; yet I must say , that if it be the confirmed opinion , at any time , if the large mass of the intelligence , and numbers , if the strength and sinews of tho country , and the intelligence whioh controls that strength , shall finally determine to adopt the Chartist i code , doubtless , gentleman , it will be adopted , and mere wealth would , in my opinion , struggle against it in yaic . " The Hon . and Learned Gentleman said that it was
not treason and rebellion to advocate the principles of the Charter ; but Lord Abinger cntertaiued a different opinion . He ( Mr . Duncoinoe ) defied any body who looked at tha Charter ! to find in it any thing that would enable him to say that its effects could be such as this Learned Judge ascribed to it . These were the charges addressedjby Lord Abinger to the grand juries . He would now proceed to show how those charges were subsequently wrought out by the Learned Judge in his charged to thy potty juries . If the maUer had ended with the charges to the grand juries , it would have been of little consequence ; tor the gentlemen to whom those charges were addressed were men who , from their education and station in life , would possess enough of
iuformation to know that the doctrines laid down by the Learned Judge were not the doctrines of constitutional law , nor indeed any kind of law known in these kingdoms—( hear hear ) . He was told that many of those gentlemen , on leaving the grand jury box , at Liverpool , had expressed themselves disgusted with the charge which had been addressed to them . Many of the unfortunate persons tried before Lord Abinger upon this occasion were undefended . At Chester , as he found from the report to which he had before referred , there arrived ; the whole park of legal artillery of the Govemmeutj Down came the Attorney-General ( Sir F . Pollock ) , the Attorney-General for the Palatine ( Mr . Hill ) , Mr . Jervis . Mr . Welaby and Mr . Pollock to conduct the
prosecution ; whilst only a single counsel , Mr . Yardley , appeared for the defence . Hence it happened that as two courts were sitting at the same momeDt , many prisoners were necessarily obliged to be tried undefended . There was always' something in a Special Commission most adverse to the prisoners to bo tried . For holding of suoh ¦¦ commissions the Government always appointed the time most convenient to itself . The bar did not generally attend unless especially retained . Hence ! the Government , with its heavyjpurse and well-led counsel , was always well aud ably represented , whilst the prisoners , poor , and without the means of offering a fee , were left to the very doubtful chance [ of procuring any legal aid at aJ ' . Upon the occasion to which he
wai referring , it appeared that Mr > Yardley was the only counsel available in the twojeourts for the defence of the prisoners . Hitherto ! , however , it had always been the benevolent maxim of the English law , that "the judge is counsel ! tor the prisoner . " But so far from ihat being the case in the present instance , one of the charges that he ( Mr . Duncombe ) had to bring against Lord Abinger was , that he made himself an advocate for the Crown—( hear , hear ) , and that his conduct throughout the whole o ) tho proceedings was most indecent and indecorous as applied to the character ofajudge , and most unjust and cruel as applied to the prisoners—( cheers ) . He would now show the House how the Learned Judge carried out the doctrines which he bad laid down to the
Grand Jury . He would go first to the trial of a man named Wilde , aud fire others at Chester . These men were charged witb attending an unlawful meeting , which ended in riot . In summing up the Learned Judge addressed to tbe petty jury very nearly the same seutiments that ho a id addressed to the grand jury . He said : — ' * It would not be necessary to go at length through the whole body of evidence which had been presented to them . The question for the jury to decide was—first , whether that evidence went to prove the existence of a conspiracy ; and secondly , whether- it identified tbe prisoners as connected with it . The aim of Chartist meetings he ( the Learned Judge ) considered , was
to produce a general suspension of labour , in order that , by so doing , they might facilitate an organic change in the constitution of the country . All changes in the constitution , even from worEO to better , were to be deprecated if effected by force and violence . Ho did not mean to say . that men were not quietly to meet and discuss changes in the government ; ( but it Bhould be remembered that governments wete not made in a hurry , but were created by a long succession of events and tbe gradual improvement of mankind , who , asjnecessiiy required , made laws for the protection of persons and property ; and any attempt to change thoso ; governments suddenly was pregnant with danger ; it in fact , amount * , d
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almost to treason . Now , he would ask , what were the objects likely to be obtained—what was the objeot sought by the advocates of the Charter ? It was such a change in the laws as would give to the labouring classes the framing of all laws for the proteotion of property . That was the olj-ct avowed ia the placard which had been produced in evidence , and the man who had been capable of writing such a placard must have had intelligence enough to know that such an object never could be effected without force and violence . It must be known that the House of Commons , as at present constituted , would never allow every man in the kingdom , whether having property or not , to have a voto for our representatives . " He ( Mr . Duncombe ) wanted to know
what right Lord Abinger had to say that—( hear , hear ) ? But he went on— "to have a vote for our representatives , or allow their members to sit without a property qualification . " Then , what was to become of the Scotch Members and of the Members for the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge , who sat without any property qualification—( aear , hear )? If the Universities were allowed to return representatives without any property qualification , why should not the same privilege be extended to the working classes—( hear , hear )? But Lord Abiager proceeded— " or , sitting , to receive a salary for their Parliamentary services . But even if the Commons should consent , the Lords would , to the last , resist the destruction of their own
privileges . " Here , again , the Noble and Learned Lord took upon himself to answer for the other branch of the legislature . But with what propriety could he do so ? When the Reform Bill wa 6 under discussion did not tho Lords resist to the last what they considered to be a destrucuou of their own privileges % but when the advice was given to the Sovereign by the cabinet of whioh the Right Hon . Baronet ( Sir J . Graham ) opposite was a member , to " swamp" the-House of Lords , did not their Lordships give way , and allow the bill to pass —( hear , bear ) ? This was the charge of Lord Abinger to a petty jury . By holding out such doctrines to them he ( Mr . Duncombe ) mail tained that Lord Abinger ' a object , to use the words of Lord Erskine , must have
been " to fasten the mill-stone of prejudice round the necks of those persons in order the more effectually to sink them "—( hear , hear ) . Lord Abiuger went on : " Finally , was it to be expected that the Sovereign would , without force or violence , consent to the changes proposed by the Charter V What right had . Lord Abinger to state this \ A former Sovereign , as he ( Mr . Duncombe ) had already stated , consented to " swamp" the House of Lords . Why should not the present Sovereign consent to allow the working classes to vote for the return of representatives to . Parliament ] Lord Abinger proceeded : — " The calling together of several thousand persons to discuss political rights was itself a farce , the object of the demagogues being invariably not
to reason with , but to inflame the mob . He had always thought that a meeting , consisting of soveral thousand persons , must , in its very nature , be illegal , because it was absolutely impossible that at such meetings there could be anything like discussion , and , therefore , for a mau to say , I called together five or six thousand persons for the purpose of political discussion , was in effect to say , tbat I called them together to infiime their passions . " This appeared to be too much even for the stomach of the Chester petty jury , for it appears , from the report , that they interrupted the Learned Judge , and desired to have no more of it . Tiio report said" The Jury here interrupted his Lordship , and intimated that as their minds ware already made up as
to their verdict , they would not trouble him with going through the evidence . " It was too much even for this jury . They had attended public meetings , no doubt , and had seen thousandsof their fellow-subjects assembled for tho purpose of political discussion , without allowing their passions to be inflamed , —( hear , hear . ) But " No , " said the Learned Judge , " I will not stop till I have given you a little more . —( hear , hear , and a laugh : ) and then he went on a new subject , having nothing whatever to do with the case upon which the jury wore to pronounce a verdict of " Guilty , " or " fsot Guilty . " The report continuedintheseterms : — " His Lordshipsaid he would only then trouble them with one observation , in reference to a statement of one of the
prisoners , tha , !; the Qieen lived upon the taxes taken out of the pocke ' -u of the people . Now the revenues of the Kings t > f England originally consisted of lauds belonging to them . In the time of Edward the Confet > sor a great portion of the lauds of England belonged to him as his private right . They would find even in Doomsday book , a very valuable document , and containing a record of all tho property in the kingdom , that the King ' s property was there specified iu the tame way as that of a private individual . When William the Conqueror subdued this country , in virtue of his conquest , he took to himself the lands of those whom be had conquered , and introduced the feudal system . His revenue consisted of a , vast portion of all the ' ands in the
kingdom , besides the feudal rights , which gave him very considerable power over tho lands of others . Fur instance , if a man died aad left a eon a minor . the King took upon him the property of the deceased aa ward for his son . These were caUed the King's revenues . In the reign of Charl < s the Second , the feudal rights , amounting to about £ 800 , 0 G 0 a-year , were abolished , and a grant of £ 600 , 000 a-year w& 3 given as a compensation , to be paid in certain taxes on small commodities , which were then levied by the government . In the reign of George the Third , William tho Fourth , and Queen Victoria , further immunities were given up , tne Parliament undertaking to make a suitable provision for the pur * poses of royalty . Originally the property of the
Crown belonged as much to tbe Crown as the estates of the Marquis of Westminster or the Duke of Bedford did to them , and if ever there had been sacrifices of property made to the public , they were made by the Sovereigns of Eagland . Was it be tolerated , then , that assertions should be made respecting her Majesty which were false in fact , and only calculated to mislead . He had thought it right to make these observations , in order that toe pt | blic might understand the real ' state of the question . " Let the House mark these concluding words ; the Noble and Learned Lord thought it right to make these observations , in order that the " public" might understand the real state of the question . So , then , this was an . addres to the " public , " not to the "jury "—( cheers . )
In tbe opinion of this learned judge , when Been were standing before him for trial by which their liberties almost their lives might be affected , it was his duty te address himself not to the jury , but to the publio out of doors . Well , the end of it all was , that the prisoners were found " guilty . " Then came the sentences . Here again the Learned Lord rendered himself conspicuous . " Wild and tha other prisoners having been placed at the bar , the reporter of the proceedings gave this account of what took place : — " The Learned Chief Baron , in addressing the prisoners , said , Prisoners at thn bar , you bave all been tried and convicted—most of you of conspiracy , ia the assembling of illegal meetings , rioting , ard the adoption of other unlawiul means to procure a
change in the constitution of the country . Witb respect to this charge , which is the gravest and most important that has been brought before the Court , you Robert Wild , Samuel Lees , John Fairhurst , and James Wild , after a long trial , and tUo deliberate consideration of the jury , have been convioted of that offence . It appears from the evidence , that all of you were more or less engaged in attending meetings assembled together , by : appoiutmrnt , from day to day , and sometimes two or three times a day , the object of which was to procure the largest number of persons possible , and to deliver inflammatory speeches , which you , Robert Wild and Samuel Lees , have been proved to have uttered against the Constitution of tbe country and the present state of
things . Your design in all this was to iuflxmo the minds of the persona assembled , to procure still larger meetings , and , when you had sufficient numbers , and were sufficiently organised , to proceed to accomplish your object of creating an entire suspension of labour , and putting an end to all the industry within the districts in which you lited . Not only did you endeavour to' suspend the labour in . manufactories , but all other kinds of workmen were stoppedeven agricultural labourers were prevented from following their lawful avocations . Now , a conspiracy to do this alone , if it were attended with no other result than the mere mischief and privaiion that must necessarily , ensue to the unfortunate men whom
you hindered from following their employment , is highly criminal , and very properly punishable by law . But the Jury have decided that you had an ulterior political object ; that you vainly imagined , by causing all labour to be suspended , that you could bring the country into such a state of distress and destitution—and which , indeed , you would have done , if your machinations bad been successful—as that you might be enabled to force some poUtical objects , which your imaginations suggested as the remedy for . all t&e evils under which you supposed yourselves suffering . As to your suggestion that you intended to do this by moral force—the force of reason and argument applied to the judgment—what is that in reality but an absurd and fallacious
pretext to cover your real designs , and to render them still more dangerous ? Why , it has been proved , that at . some of the meetings speeches ware uttered—and I am not sure that they were not uttered by one of yourselves—in the coarse of which it was stated , that two hundred thousand men were ou their march from Glasgow to turn out the cotton- chap 3—that your brethren ( as they were called ) in Ireland were up—and that one hundred thousand Birmingham men ( whom you thought proper to call cast-steel men , on account of their supposed imperviousnt as to the authorities , aud against whom it was said a broadside would have no
effect ) , were ready to rally round the cause of the people . Was this moral force and argument 1 Why , it is perfectly clear that your professions of regard for peace , law , and order , wera ^ allJtdPPteaf ^ ^ in order to oover your baser designsjPMiyltHlgliit real object was to give the people to a ?| rs » i » „ that such physical force was about * tiygin , VgrPJL ; jTN trated as would overawe the Govergmefit > ftiidJo | T ^ rg . ( Continued in our Eighth ^( S ^' ^\^ zt { -: ^ -: c- Zx ± . 0 ~ ^ y $ > i / i ? dm £ ^ W-JclVtlSAtaM
Untitled Article
THE NORTHERN STAR . 1
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), Feb. 25, 1843, page 7, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct639/page/7/
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