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Northern Star (1837-1852), 27th March 1841, Edition 4 of 5, Page 7, Untitled Article

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    • d9ri£fnai &orve$$Qtttotnce.
    • " THE LEAGUE" ARGUMENT
    • MRS. CLAYTON
    • £m$mal aparltamcut
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      d 9 ri £ fnai &orve $$ Qtttotnce .

      Untitled Article

      TO MB . O'MALLEY , OF THE DUBLIN 0 HABTIST ASSOCIATION . « Her editary donkeys ! know ye not , Kboerer rides , —yonraelTia must bear the load ?" jjT Pea * O * Mali < bt , —Of course yon hare stood -pob the sea shore in * storm , and seen the wave that ^ r oiled unbroken tar many a league npon the surface d tbe Ttftdeep , till parted at last , as if by magic , by some

      -UJ 95 B agent , just as it had nearly terminated its race . Yob hwe s * wre ^^ wre * ^ m ^ s * ^ » pot , »__ parted and dashed into foam , none escaping ; and joi kite pondered at a like fate happening to each and Lj . A » - » tide receded , you hare kept your eye fixed toob the « pot , *»<*• *» length , diBcoYered a litUe iocs , -which , thoogh boned and hidden from the sight , ¦ 5 ^ , ' wTerthe feB , **« fi « d i motionless , immovable , jud powerful .

      0 ___ y , tot little rock was like still Troth , and the jBpy Are ra like vociferous and frothy Fiction ; l 3 t while , fiction <» Tered truth , but when the rage hja passed away , and the storm had abated , fiction fled jjgj truth remained unshaken . Snch , O'ilalley , has ^ 3 the state of agitated Ireland for the last twenty -as . The I well Upon the surface has been kept raging totbe mere purpose of obscuring truth 3 but , alas ! iis TSTM ire beginning to break upon the immutable gjjje nek—the tide Is receding , and thoae -with jjjupest vision npon the shore are beginning to see g& laid bare and uncovered .

      OllaUey , whea a man of mind reads the history of j ^ ltass days ; the exploits and noble deeds , the selffeTotion * ad self-resignation of a Wallace , a Brace , a EiBpotn , * Washington , a Harvey , as Emmet , and a pjjgaild , rnnta the patriot ' s cheek glow , bis blood to S-t * * * * J * a nerTe become elastic He «• "bat ^ y liTed « * ° d " » ere ready to die , jjot to tbenaelres , nor yet for an age , but fer a princpk , _ serve all ages . He is bet a poor philosopher -who never sees life in death , or "worse than death in lrm& He is no better than the beast that bears his bcrta , wboae * Fpe £ te ¦ - <* mind are one .

      la my las tefter I drew a sad , but true , picture of Irelicd ; let njnoTr , my Mend , hating traTelled round her opial , take a renew of the principles of her " patriots " for the 1 * £ tea ye&rs . Let us sink all that happened before "Bdozm , " but came to that period , and endeaTour to see toe reek now that fiction has spsn t its foam . Not then , 0 __ tey , I take the one great principle to -which the mind ef Ireland "was to be directed , " the repeal of the Tnion , " and I ask you to follow me

      tfciooin » statement of plain and simple facts , which no sophistry eaa much longerbide from the opening eye of EnfaiEj millions . Those little stubborn facts must be aanraed . It trill not do to cover them with " the wave that earn— mhroieo from the coast of Labrador ;" ndtha eta they be -ia _ h longer obscured by " the Widtor bills , * " or the " HiH of Howth ;* nor will the " graa fields , " " the rippling Btrtams , " or " verdant t _ W tttzaet attention from them .

      Inlxai has bed m » d for ten years . Ireland is now in i lwjd isterral , and she begins to reason -irifch herself ; &Bd »» , O'ilaEej , bear me npon ihe Repeal . I gxn yon our Charter in mj last ; it was fuller than the EsjBsh Charter , '"^^ " ^ aa it contained the ¦ whole principle , Universal Suffrage , Annual Parliamen t * , tad Vote by Ballot , together with a large amemst of detail , such as the abolition of tithes , appointaaii of magistrates by the people , but aboTe all and before all , " cheap Government . "

      Xct , you who hare heard the storm rags fall man / % thnf sad oft , -rill remember rude Boreas whistling til fc _ Triia notes through eTery creek , cranny , nook , and errnce in Ireland , and how each pale one reTelled to list the jocund sound : you will remember that the Repeal cry was wafted throughout the land upon each passing tretze ; aboTe all , bear in mind thai the motto was— " ?? o matter what a foreign Parliament felt inclined to do , at no matter , howerer kindly it may be dizposed towards Ireland , nothing but a domestic

      legislature can govern Ireland for the benefit of Irishmen . " You will recollect that the people were told that " Jamaica , Newfoundland , and Prince Edward's Island had their separate legislatores , and why should not Ireland hare hers ? " Ton will recollect that we were tsid that " it was impossible for Irishmen ' s business to be as well done abroad &s si home ; ¦* is short , that Bepeal was the ptnaeea for all our -woes . Kow , O'HiQBj , bear all that in mind : that Repeal was the priicpie ; and being agreed upon the principle , we nsn come to the practical means of accomplishing it

      There were two ways , then , of accomplishing Repeal , either by force , independent of Parliament ; or by i rote of the House of Commons ; by physical rerohitiaii armonl force . Physical force is denonaeed , and by no cztt more strongly than myself . I denounce it from my soul , before eTery moral effort of which man is apaWe bu been tried , and peneTeringly tried , and has failed . I denounce it , except where right conspires with it , and makes it a moral obligation for the

      sappresjMB of a combination of might and wrong . Physics ! fone nerer need be tried , except for lack of moral « o = iage by morsi cowards . Physical force , then , is cut of tl * qnatioB ; and we must next fall back upon moral force ; that is , upon a combination of right and aiight , morally marshalled , and effectually directed Hoial force , pourtrsying wrong , while physical energy naia is -rrong-doers apprehend the most effective of sH lnsantctiong , that wherein might aad right

      eon-- ^ o » , tfeea , upon whom is *¦>"« moral power to ° pa » u . ' Ih&t question is at once , and satisfactorily * * Efsd by Mr . O'Connell " s appeal f « " petitions , Petdons , petitions . " In fact , there s only one point to Tfaca it « a be directed , namely , to -the House of Co = m » . What , then , fo ll ows , as a natural inference ? ^ 7 . i&doubtedly , that the petitioners are , by all f ^ ia their power , to str engthen the hands of these & ° 3 i * bBthsy s 3 ek a farourabl * response ; that is , f ° Jcais fcadi in the House , through whose interest * ad i ^ ac&rioo , morai courage and agency , the petitionm Mj ^ to be encouraged in their work .

      ± §» d < kbste each session , with facts brought to **^ W ot ti * justice of Ireland-g demxnd , andreported trite mperial press , would grre moral life and moral EsTS 7 to the moral force applicants . In order to ^¦^ pUsfc this , thsn , the one great and all-absorbing t-sJMtthosld bm been to keep the constitneiit and the ^^^ re iaind in perfect harmony , by adding , ^ reaeh dsbite , ntw coaTert 3 ; and , upon each election , ^^^ old oStaders .

      * ° ' ffiy ^ Jaaaet us see if this course has been j . " * " ' " ^ 'W ws may arrive at a fair conclusion T ^ ftca facts , yoa must now accompany me in a tr ^ a ^ L " e ^ 6 aTB ^ t ^ 01 ^ - ^ Bcenes which 1 hare ^ L ? ds ^ ribed within * ven milee of the improved " P * sal af "improved Ireland ; " and we will traverse jad !* **! in search of this combination of right * ys . m support of the Repeal of the Union . -V — 4 * mm «| 4 . v ^ j yi a \ rf ^^* - «^ If

      ^ ^^ ^ ^^ ^^ ^ ^ ^^ , ii 4 > * - divided npon the question , and had a - £ ««» minority of forty-twa Seven years have Vhv ^^' ' let M ^ Wi ™ "what nas become of ^ ^^ y . and what now would be the resnJt of a bairn " ** " th : ms 5 ndi ' tens of thousands , and tonrTf tiwaaan ( ii ° ^ Pounds hare been paid for the Se & * set forth the places which returned 1 Win it tt li 3 i > " ^ " ^ do Boi Teiurn Bepealers now . ** t ai l f ** Lit ) eat < : *'' a own & * x ° t i ^ o ™ country w 1 £ aahedatthedoorof his town house in my

      * y ^* ^* in Kerry cotmtj-, MnHins ; Cork county , jy ^ ^ WWgbj , —dtr , X > r . Baldwin ; MftllOW , Gjj ^ ' ^ f ^ ' Joha O ' Connell ; Waterford eoanty , tq ^^^ S&nan , Jacob ; Clare , Micnamara , juu . ; ^^^ wnaty and boroughs , —county , the Bight ci ^ T j f ^ kwd la lor Shiel , i" Who U the traitor ? " ) ° M ^** Clonmel » fiauayne . ittc ^« T . Oish el and aoumel , Mat two mort Radical liiijr !^ 1 taTe become the Gxtton and Old Sarum of

      a ^ -j n ^ T ^ mu shroom-bed for growing place-^ ki , ^* " Jnrt tllink of C 100131 * returning Dr . iTtij , ^ Trixdty College ! My God : Xf tiy V ) ^ on r ^ ularly through every county from F ata , jjjjt 0 1 notsBiDgl « tarn . Kilkenny county , borv ^ T" * ' ? city , Sumv » n ; Callow eounty » nd eoimtj . 'W ^ f * ^ fi * Tedreadf ul , O ! dreadful havoc , ) > is > b » T 8 » Mld Blackney 5 bo'O ' ^ Vigors ; ( and 3 taa Qi&x ^ y * ' tQeil st »« i ? Ashton , Tates , and n ^; . Bj T * ' ^ Tor y Bruen . Shocking , fhock-• Sbiob . Q ! ^' ! dre * df al ' ¦> King ' s county , Fitsenesty ] g ^' eo ^^ 7 , " honest' Pat Lalor ; Kildare ' * ' cijj 2 ^ ' •^ " ' T * *^ county , Fitziimon ; C « e * o-i r UttlTea i ¦ eiL ' Loutl 1 county , I > rogheda , ^• aeoaart ^' " ^ * ^^^ 7 . Morgan O-Connfcll ; ' > x « wry , Bady ; Armagli , Dobbin .

      Untitled Article

      Thus , O'Malley , since 1834 wehave lost twenty-four , or the . biggest half of our minority of forty-two , without on « single man of those I have mentioned being replaced by a Repealer -, no , not one ! I dont mention myself , because I bo fortified Cork county as to close it against all but Repeaters ; there Roche , a Repealer , and in every way a& Irishman and a gentleman , has taken my place . Now , O'Malley , take the BaroneU , the expectant * , the Commis-ioners , and all those ready to be « oppedoff , from the eighteen remaining of the minority of 1834 , and you may safely estimate your strength upon the next division at eight at the very outaide : and this is the progbessiok of Repeal !

      Now , O"Malley , let the whole rotten press of Ireland , the «« liberator , " and the Corn Exchange " patriots , " answer these facts by fecte , and not with " old Cumberland , " "the Queen , " "Sergeant Jackson , " or ¦ ' Mr . Litton , " or " 0 glory be to God , and blessed be His holy name , I gained a bloodless triumph , " Let us have facts . Ireland is beginning to ask f » r her whistle ; she must , at all events , have a tune or two upon it Now , 0 'Malley , I come to another rock , one npon which I mean to dash another of fiction ' s waves to atoms . I have shewn that , physical force being

      abandoned , and properly abandoned , an abandonment » anofcioued by Ireland ' * moral strength , that her moral energies were not " practically , " honestly , efficiently , or indeed at all cultivated ; and that all the moonshine cry of the " patriots , " to " saTe them from Stanley , and Jackson , and Litton , and the Orangemen , " is sheer humbug—that , in fact , the very grievances of which they complain are the effect of causes produced by the " patriots" themselves . Hare , then , I proceed to another mountain of facts ; and facts which , sooner or later , must and shall be answered . Now , attend to me , O'Malley .

      In 1832 , we furnished the Irish constituencies with a bill of particulars . We said Repeal of the Union will give you a resident fostering landed proprietary , who will be spurred on by emulation to give you encouragement , and who will be a check npon any inclination to tyrannias , from t&e interest which «* & will have in appealing to his conduct as hia title to your suffrages . It will give you men for local administrators of the law who have an interest in the peace , the happiness , and the prosperity of Ireland , instead of the present race of bloodsuckers , who make your pretended crimes a justification for their real iniquities . It will give you Irish laws , made , by Irishmen in Ireland , for the government of the Irish people . It will five you a national stomach to consume the produce of your land , and backs to

      wear the produce of your hands . It will make the owners of property look into taxes which they must pay , if their tenants cannot . In short , it will restore Ireland from a state of provincial degradation to national independence . We B&id you are B , CatholLs people , and should not pay a shooting church ' s parsons , and we want to abolish titles in name and nature , and to give the amount , now paid to the said parsons , to the people to whom it belongs ; we spoke not of a scale of grievances , bat we complained that the payment of * farthing was unjust , and tithes should , therefore , be abolished in name and nature . We said the magistrates have cruelly oppressed the people , and we see no remedy but in allowing the people to appoint their own magistrates , subject to the proper tribunal for the due execution of their office . We said

      every man of twenty-one years ef age is entitled to a vote , and should have it We said Annual Parliaments are part and parcel of the constitution , and our Irish members require but your countenance and support , to give them strength to acquire this and all other things to which they hereby pledge themselves . Well , O'MaDey , no man in Ireland , no twenty men , no thousand men in Ireland , werked as I worked for the accomplishment of those things . We were mutually pledged each to the other , by a solemn bond and covenant We , upen our part , said , we know your Bufferings will be great in resisting your landlords , by veting f « r

      men who promise so much ; but you have the Bill before you , and it is for you to say whether or no the advantages held out will more than counterbalance the sufferings to be endured ; and the people , from the Land's End to Cape Clear , with one voice answered , " we agree , we will endure all for our country ' s good , our families , our homes , and our altars , " Be it so , - said the " patriots , " " and cuMdd be he who first strikes the national colours from the Irish standard . " Well , to work we went , and the poor , but honest and confiding people backed us ; and and I for one , stood by them in return , and resisted every act of aggression consequent upon their oppostion to their landlords .

      Well , O'iiiUlejr , " patriotism" ifl a fine thing tot&Dt of ; but , in my opiniaa , there is more real devotion to country , which is patriotism , in the poor man , who , with a wife and a house full of children , bravely risks his ail for his country ' s good ; who denes distress for rent , ejectment , persecution , and prosecution ; than there is in the man who makes no sacrifice , and runs no risk , but fattens and grows rich upon the misfortunes of his country . Now , O'ilalley , lfitns analyae the effect produced by the desertion of the people by the " patriots . " Here it is , then , ail of a heap , like Brown ' s cow , and from the Morning Chronicle , which has the fallowing as a justification of Irish indignation against Stanley ' s Bill , while it furnishes the most damning proof of the villany ef the " patriots . " The Chrvnide says : —

      " In the Chronide of Tuesday last appeared a communication from our Dublin correspondent , in which he gave an abstract of the returns , showing the decrease of electors , on a comparison of the register in 1835 with the register of 1841 , whieh we here repeat : — Antrim ., „ , „ , „ , „ .. 877 Leitrim 17 Armagh 902 Limerick ( Connty ) 1 , 221 B » ndon .... 10 Limerick ( City ) ... 1 , 128 Carlow ( Borough ) ... 57 Longford 130 Cavan _ . 150 Mallow 188 Clare . ' 9 S 3 Mayo 766 Cork ' " 727 Meath 545

      Cori ( City ) ..- 873 Ketrry 135 Donegal ............ 320 Qneen ' s County ... otl Down 1 , 102 Ko » conjmen 805 Downpatrick 201 Trake $ 3 Dungannon , 1 WaleTford 692 Dungarvan 2 S 7 Waterford ( Cityi ... 151 Ennis 8 Westmeath 538 Enniskillen 133 Wexford 1 , 173 Galway ( County ) ... 1 , 470 Wicklow 252 Kildare 269 Kilkenny < Cit ? ) ... 77 17 , 243 King ' s County ^ ..... oil

      " In the counties and boroughs , not in this list , there has been some very slight increasemknt , or the constituenc .-, has been stationary . There are no returns from the counties of Monsghan or Dublin ; but Mr . Grattan , in a letter to the electors of Kildare , -which appeared in the Chronide of Tuesday last , estimates the loss in both at 2 , 757 voters , which gifts ft grand total decrease of 20 , 000 for all Ireland . " Now then , O'llalley , are you satisfied ? Up to 1835 the tenants resisted their landlords ; allowed their families to be driven from house and home , in expectation of the boons promised by the '' patriots ; " but after three years of " hope deferred , " of anxious seeking and heart-burning , they said , " we have had enongh of bambug ; we havs done our share ; we have outraged our landlords : ten thousand have been ejected , ten

      thousand more , rather than appear to vote against Ireland , wont register at all ; by that means we shall save ourselves the disgrace of voting for the enemies of our religion , while our landlords will be satisfied with our neutrality . " Now , O'Malley , have I or have I not fully , fairly , and justly aeeonnted for the decrease of the Iri * h county constituencies , aad areaot ths poo * pae-ple folly justified r Had we gone on , year after year , adding something to our moral-force power in the Bouse of Commons , standing by our every principle , and had we established our general associations for the protection of voters and the exposure of tyrant landlords , Ireland

      would now have had an increase of 50 , 000 voters more than those registered in 1835 , instead of a decrease of 20 , 000 . Thsy saw Lord Duncannon , Sir Henry ParnelL the Hon . Robert King , Mr . Leader , Mi . Wyse , and Mr . Jephson , with scores ot others , not up to the mark ., hooted from the hustings ; and they bow see Lord Duncannon , Sir Henry Parnell , and Vx . Wyse " in the best ministry" that Ireland ever had , and they see Mr . jephson transformed into Sir Denham Norreys , and they ask , how is this ? Now , Mr , Wyse and Mi . Jephson are as honest as any two men in the House , and , instead of changing one jet of their principles , they stuck to them , like gentlemen , but the "Liberator " has melted down to their temperature .

      My majority in 1 S 32 , for the county of Cork , was 842 . In 1835 , my majority wouid have been above 1 S 00 , but the enemy struck , and -we stopped at 660 of a majority : but my majority 'would hare been nearly double what it was three years before ; and why ?

      Untitled Article

      Because I stood fast by my every pledge , tested the House upon Repeal , opposed every humbug , and woald not listen to the deceitful system of taking an instalment of twenty-five shillings rent for twenty shillings tithe ; because I risked my life and everything , in exposing every act of persecution ; and , in justice to the landlords of the county of Cork , I will say that there were fewer in that county than in any county in Ireland , though the largest and most aristocratic Well , bow is Cork riCuated now ? Why it has lost 727 of its constituents , and 727 of the remainder will never again Tote against their landlord * ,- whereas , if the measures , for which they made so many sacrifices , had been honestly maintained in the House of Com . mona , Cork county would have added more than 9 , 000 to its constituency , instead of having a decrease of

      727 . O'Malley , my services in that county , -which , gave the tone to Ireland , have yet to be published . I registered the county—I roused the connty and Ireland , all Ireland , through the county of Cork . I rode and drove thousands of mUes by night and by day . I have paid eight and nine ponnda a day for posting , always doing all the work myself , and galloping from town to town as fast as four horses COttld lay leg to ground . I have r idden miles fast asleep and wet to the skin . I have slept in damp beds in rooms that never were slept in before . I have changed my clothes at Mill-street , and again at Macroon , on my way from Kantuck , home , fifty miles in a gallop . I have left home again in an hour , at midnight , to ride thirty miles more in pelting rain . I have had notice from servants

      to quit my service , sa they could not keep up with me , although alwayB mounted on thoroughbred banes . I have tumbled down in the hall of James Redmond Barry ' s house , fast asleep , while his butler was lighting me a candle ; and I have been in the saddle in five hours to ride seventy miles , and address three public meetings . I paid for the reporters , -who reported our proceedings at meetings , three guineas each , and then got bat a corner . I was arrested for attending and taking tie chair &t seven meetings , and refused to make any compromise , lest I should appear to compromise my party for my own liberty . I prosecuted General Sir George Bingh&m for ordering the military to ride the people down ; and , as counsel for the Crown ,

      the Crown refusing to prosecute , I used my privilege of setting every Orangeman aside , till I got a fair jury to convict , and I did get a conviction . The "Liberator " was leading counsel , but ha ran away while I was doing the work ; while the very judge who was to try me , perhaps , next , was fuming and raving for abusing ( as he called it ) the privilege of the Crown ; but I went on ; the General was convicted , and fined sijepenoe ! I was counsel and agitator for every one who pledged himself to Repeal . I never took one farthing from any one . I posted fifty mileB in the dead hour of night , with four horses , to conduct Mr . John O'ConnelPs election at Youghall , and made my way through drawn sabres to the hustings and returned him .

      That was the way to get an Irish constituency ; and the best proof U this , that ten millions of money would not have beaten me in the county Of Cork . Let m * but get another pull at them , and I will put them in the same proud position once more , and humble the devils again in the dost When they do see me again , it will be with the old flig tying , with a few new demands , equivalent to the times we live in , upon it ; bat not one single ensure ; and they shall see me aqai . v . ' O'Malley , I have accounted for Irish apathy and the decrease of the Irish constituencies , and now I come for one moment to a consideration of the charge of encouraging the English people to use violence to Mr . O'Connell .

      O'Malley , as a lover of fairplay , you will hear both sides of the question . You will look on both pictures . Look then On ( hU side , And on this . " 1 will meet you in "O ! Mr . O'Connor , Dublin , London , Cork , and his torch and dagger Belfast , Birmingham , Man- Chartists , wont let any Chester , Newcastle , and man be heard , or bold a Glasgow , to discuss the meeting , but themselves . " justice of trades defending —D . OConnelL their property by unions of " I met Feargua O'Contheir order . I will pledge nor at a meeting at Presmytelf to restrain all per- ton , last week , and I hod sonal feelings 00 strong a great mind to kick him . " against you . I will also —Some bully at the Corn discuss with you the seTe- Exchange .

      ral questions upon which "You never would nave you profess to differ from been more right in youi Ihe English Chartists . I life , my friend , than if you will pay all the expencea ; bad kicked him welL "you shall make all the D . OConnelL arrangements ; I merely " O ! If Feargus O'Constipulate for free admission nor was to come to Dublin , and no packing . " —F . OCcm- the boys would treat him Ttpr ' t Letter to D- O ^ ConneU . to a swim in thel / iffey . "" Let no man be drunk ; D . O'Conndl . let no man riot ; if any should , let him be instantly restrained . "—F . 0 Covnor ' s Letter on the Leeds Meeting of 21 tt January , to which O'CotmeU tons expected .

      Now , O Malley , Io « k on those two pictures , and say who is afraid of argument , and who 18 tue bttlly ? I ean only say of my Preston friend , that he has good luck on his side not to have gratified his inclination ; for , although I have never seen the hero , I would underst&ke to thrash him and another or two like him . Well , again , I challenge Daniel to meet me in the very Corn Exchange , for the first place -, and there I will defend Chartism and O'Connor against humbug and O'Conneil . I will pay my own expences ; I will go alone ; I ask but free admission , and no silver tickets and kid-skin glove " patriots . " I must have the blisters and frieze coats , and then I defy mortal man to beat me upon Irish ground .

      O'Malley , I mean to make this a great day for Ireland . I have started early , and written this letter before breakfast I will write for fifteen hours to-day , all about Ireland and the Irish ; my observations may not be published just now in a book , but they will in time to come . This is mj last day , as to-morrow the Assizes dose , and all hope of convoy will be gone . No man shall affect ignorance of Ireland after he has read my present series ef letters ; he shall see the very grass growing , and hear the vallies ring with the Bound of Ireland ' s real grievances . I will let you and the worid know whether or not I understand my country and mj countrymen .

      O'ilalley , I said , from the commencement , that Repeal would find an opiate in some new-forged counterfeit . My next shall be upon the last twenty-four pounder fired from the humbug camp , as an address to the Irish people , in -which the anti-Catholic prejudice of Sergeant Jackson and Mr . Litton is administered to the uneasy and sleepless repealer , as if it was all new , or , as if those Orangemen had told us anything that we didn't know before . Humbug , all humbug . I am , O'Malley , Your faithful friend and countryman , FEARGUS O'CONNOR . P . S . I will show you what the " lion" in his net can do for his country in one day .

      O'M&lley , just take my letters to the liberal Irish papers , and aBk them to publish them , even as advertisements , and to name their own price . I dare them—I dtfy them ; aye , and I will make them do it y « t , in obedience to public opinion . P . O'C .

      Untitled Article

      TO HER MOST GRACIOUS MAJESTY THE

      QUEEN . MaPam , —The next institution « f society which we have said requires reorganization , in ordei to it * bec « ming really beneficial to the community , is the Church—a very few words respecting which will suffice to place the matter in its proper light and importance It is ft fact , declared by two eminent diviaes of the Church of England , that religion , as connected with the state , is established , not because of its trnth , but because of its utility . Thus , then , I am saved all the trouble of demonstrating the anti-scriptural nature of our National Church as to the doctrines she inculcates . Warburton and Paley have taught me that this is a test to whieh 1 have no need to subject toe state machine for the coercion of conscience . She exists on account of her public utility , and if she does not answer that end . then she has no claim to exist at all .

      By the Church is not meant the people who belong £ 9 her communion ; these are her children , who , ac . cording to the sentiments of the Archbishop of Canterbury , in his primary charge , are expected to crowd , with pious affection , to the altars of their mother ; nor does the Church mean the places dedicated to the performance of the national worship . These are only the temples in ¦ whi ch her public functions are performed j the Church is , in reality , the established priesthood , in

      Untitled Article

      connection with those who have the distribution of ecclesiastical good thinga , and a standing army , and a numerous and vigilant established police , to enfoice the claims of the said priesthood , by the wholesome and Christian means of coercion and compulsion . This is really the Church of England as established by law . She is , in fact , a chartered company , with your Majesty at her bead , possessing a monopoly of religious wares , and punishing , when she can do so with impunity , all who refuse to use or purchase her merchandise . This Is her corporate character , and I beg your Majesty to bear in mind this , I am only now speaking of her in her secular capacity . I waive all investigation into her rigut to be considered , apart from her connection with the state , as a section of the universal church » f Christ .

      Now , in this her state character , she is supported at the yubtto expence , aa one of the institutions of the country , and she is ao supported on the supposition that she renders to the community certain important services in return for the support thus afforded her I am not prepared to say that she does not render some important services . I believe she doea ; but the two most important ends for " which every state church exists , Bbe is , by her unhappy organisation , almost wholly prevented from accomplishing . These are , the guardianship of public morals , and a maintenance of a spirit of good will amongst the people . A « to the first of these

      subject * , it is notorious that , wherever her influence is the most predominant , there is the state ef public morals most deplorable . For a proof of this we have only to look at the Universities and at all Cathedral towns . Not is this at all a matter for butprise and wonder , when we see the manner in which the patronage is distributed . In 1831 , the total number of livings in England and Walts was 10 , 872 , the distribution of which was as follows : —la the gift of the King and Government , 1 . 0 U ; lay Nobility and Gentry , 5 , 030 ; Bishops , 1 , 304 ; Deans and Chapters , 1 , 042 ; Universities , 794 ; Private Ecclesiastics , 1 , 423 ; Corporations and Charitable Institutions , 197 Inhabitants ,

      68 . We all know that a vast proportion of these livings are given to the creatures of the minister of the day ; to younger sons and brothers , who are more intent upon killing game than curing souls ; and to persons who purchase them in direct violation of the regulations of the Canons , but who are permitted to hold them notwithstanding . Can any body wonder that when the patronage is so corruptly distributed , the Church ' a guardianship over public morals should be only a mere name ?

      The case is just as bad if we turn to the other branch of the Church duties : —Thai of promoting good will among the people . Alas , she is much more likely , in her present form , to atir up strife and contention . Here sending a conscientious Dissenter to prison , and there refusing the rites of burial , not to a person unbaptised , but to some infant whose parents had chosen to have it initiated into the Christian' fold , according to the forms of their own communion . Oh « day driving off a poor widow ' s cow , and leaving her son in his blood , for daring to defend it ; and the next engaged with a refractory farmer , who had neglected to pay due reverence to his spiritual guide . Truly , the sooner your Majesty begins to exercise your powers as head of the Church , the better . If something is not done to reform the Church , in a few years we shall not have a Church

      to reform . Lastly . —The constitution of Parliament must be entirely reorganized , or peace and contentment can never surround your throne . The very notion of representation is inconsistent with the present constitution of the House of Commons ; nor can genuine liberty be secured until such changes as the altered and improved state of the public mind clearly indicate to be necessary , be effected in the constitution of the House of Lords . Only think of men in the nineteenth century , being deemed and declared competent to legislate for a great empire , solely on the ground that their fathers did so before them . If the nonsense by which the hereditary House

      of Legislators is supported , had been applied to the business and operations of common life , we should have been now dressed in the skins of beasts , and living on acorns and roots in the woods . All has been progressing but the- science of Government ; that has stood still , or if moving at all , it has been in a direction directly opposite to the real interest and well-being of the nation . Depend upon it , Madam , the House of Lords must be brought into a state of accord with the spirit of the age , or , by and by , an insulted people will arise in their moral majesty , and , in the face of their power , the House of Lords will cease to exist as a legislative assembly .

      But defective as the constitution of tbe Upper House unquestionably is , it is perfection itself when compared with that which claims to be the people's representatives . Even the very forms of the House are at variance with common sense , and would not be endured a month by a really free people . Just , for example , look at ths tact that the men who pretend to have their power conferred by the people , refuse to receive a notification of the people ' s wishes except in the shape of a petition couched in the most a >> ject

      terms , if it be upon a particular subject , and concluding with a promise which they well know the petitioners never intend to keep . Then , again , the petition may be presented ; they are not always received , and still lefs attended to , while measures of the most grinding oppression , and on which the public disapprobation has been uaequivocably expressed , are passed with the most provoking coolness ; and the hard earnings of the people are voted to maintain a syBtem calculated to undermine the very framework of society , and to destroy every vestige of liberty , except in name .

      The same atrocious system of misrule pervades every department of the state , and is especially observable in the appointment of Magistrates and other Executive officers , and in the powers entrusted to tbe Lords Lieutenant of counties . The former are men having generally no sympathy with the people , no knowledge of the law which they are appointed to administer , and an utter recklessness as to the consequences of the acts they may feel disposed to perpetrate j and the latter , Instead of being compelled to convene public meetings , when called upojf to do so by a given number of the inhabitants , can / refuse to do so when the object is one which it suits their views of interest , or of prejudice , to

      refuse ; and thus to stifle , in a considerable degree , the legitimate expression of the popular voice , in matters of paramount public interest . These , and they are but a few among the multitude that might be adduced , are some of the instances which prove beyond reasonable question , that these most important of our social institutions need a searching and practical reform , and that reform we must and shall obtain . The people must - be fully and fairly represented , or it will be seen at no distant day that further forbearance is impossible ; and consequences will follow , of a nature and extent that is quite out of the power of hubiau prudence to calculate or foresee .

      Thus , Madam , have I taken a concise view of 6 U « b preliminary matters as seemed essential to be known , in order to the clear understanding of our subject We have inquired into the various duties devolving upon tbe Government , and have examined them at considerable length . We have seen the vast importance to ail ranks and classes of such a system of criminal jurisprudence i \ s shall tend at once to prevent tbe commission of crime , and promote the reformation of the criminal population . We aball now proceed to examine whether , and bow far , the present system of prison discipline , as existiog in this country , is calculated to promote , hinder , or prevent the realisation of these important object *

      I am , Madam , Your Majesty ' s faithful and obedient subject and servant , NUMA . London , March 3 rd , 1841 .

      " The League" Argument

      " THE LEAGUE" ARGUMENT

      Ma . Editor , —If anything further is wanted to prove that the professed advocates for a repeal of the Corn Lavs area set of dishonest and vile hypocrites , the following facts will settle that question . I attended a pnblic meeting on Monday evening , at Deptford , in Kent , for the purpose of meeting the great sophist of the day , Mr . 8- Smith . I found that gentleman at work amongst a room full of middle men , with a few exceptions , endeavouring , as usual , to make tbem believe that the working classes were ao completely dead to tbeir own interest , that they allow themselves to be duped by a set of fellows , called Chartists , who were paid by those who were opposed to the repeat of the com taws . That bartfoced falsehood compelled me to break silence , and ask if , at the close of Mr . Smitb'sremarks , I might be allowed to correct some statements made by that gentleman , which were at variance with truth . Instead of receiving an answer , there was

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      a general cry of these middle men , " turn him out ;** a counter cry of a few fustian jacket men . was "hear him ; " which ended in those men being expelled by force , and myself threatened to soon follow ; but they , finding that I was not to be intimidated , allowed me to remain . As soon as order was restored , the liberal Sydney Smith stated that be would not answer any questions which Mr . Neesom might aak , % nd he felt It bin duty to inform the meeting who that gentle man was , in order that they might be on their guard-. Mr . Neesom was the person who was mainly instrumental in upsetting the Anti-Poor Law meeting at the Crown and Anchor , the other day , by taking the chair and putting aa amendment favourable to his views ; and further , he had been one ot the foremost to attead similar meet * ings , and so strong was the opposition of that individual , along with others , to hia ( Mr . Smith ' s ) views , that they had completely destroyed bis attempts to get for the poor a cheap loaf ; that they could not hold a meeting in any part of London without the certain

      defeat of their obj « cta . But the iVoriAera Star newspaper was the most to blame , as it gave weekly reports of those meetings , aad the proprietor , F . O'Connor , a man whom he as Much despised as he did Mr . Neeaora , applauded the doings of those men . He begged to inform the meeting , that it was the intention of those with whom he had the honour to act , to use the strong arm of the law in future : therefore it ia necessary for the London Chartists t * look out As Mr . Smith is a reader of the Star , I beg to inform him that I fear not his threat *; bludgeon men or sabres will not intimidate me from doing my duty in exposing the vile cheat , and where ever Mr . Sydney Smith is , there am I also . Allow me , Mr . Editor , to say , I am an advocate for free discussion , and do not approve of noise and clamour instead of argument ; bat after what passed last night , we may expect knock-down arguments from those canting knaves , the Cera Law Repealers . As far as London is concerned , the League is dead without the hope of a resurrection .

      My next business in this affair will be , to preach Mr . Smith ' s funeral sermon , of whieh I shall give public notice . Should you be able to find a place for the insertion of the above in your forthcoming Star , you will oblige , Sir , Yours very respectfully , C . H . Neesom . 78 , Hare-street , Bethnal Green . P . S . —I may just add , in reference te Mr . O'Connor ' s wish , for another Convention , &c , I am most ready to do all in my power to forward his views .

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      RELIGIOUS FREEDOM (?) TO THE EDITOB 09 THE NOBTHERN STAR . Sir , —On Sunday , the 15 th instant , a written bill was posted on the Joint Stock Shop window , to the following effect : — " A sermon will be preached on behalf of John Clayton ' s family , whose death was caused by Whig persecution in Northallerton gaol , at five o ' clock this afternoon , " The religious churchwarden gave orders to Ward , the policeman , to pull it down , which he did . It was then written » n with chalk , when the aforesaid worthy came and rubbed it off " . The room is not licensed , nor the parson who was going to preach—so there was no sermoa The above is a strong proof of O'Brien ' s statement in his last letter . People would become religious , but the tyrants will not allow it .

      Good heavens . ' we have eome to a pretty pass . We are denied our political rights—also our religious rights . A man cannot now teach the doctrines of ttutb , love , and justice , without being licensed . In haste , Your ' s , in the cause of freedom , John Davison . Stockton , 16 th March , 1341 .

      Mrs. Clayton

      MRS . CLAYTON

      tO THE EDITOR OF THE KORTHEBH STAB . Sir , —As your valuable paper has ever been the medium through which the rights of all , withont exception , have been fairly advocated , but especially the working classes , I feel it to be ray imperative duty to thank you for the interest you have taken in my personal welfare , under my unprecedented affliction , I mean the loss of my husband , who died in the cause of Chartism , and for that prompt attention you have paid to communications from different parts of the country . Though he was a poor man , and of few abilities , compared with others , had he been a rich man—a Collins or a Lovett—you could not have shown greater

      marks of respect , or have spoken of him in terms more affecting , or nave been more ready to assist bis helpless wife and children . Other friends have followed your example , and lent me their pecuniary aid , to enable me to gain an honest livelihood , that I may not be left to the mercy « f oppressors , or the frowns of tyrants . I sincerely thank all persons whe have used their influence in the cause of the fatherless and widow , and should any Chartist friends grant me their support , I trust they will bo satisfied that the same is not misapplied , as it is my intention to acknowledge all sums received by me , be they ever so small , through tbe medium of your paper .

      Sir , I take this opportunity of most gratefully acknowledging the sums already received from the following places : — £ s . d . Manchester Yictim Fund 2 0 0 Members of the Christian Church , Birmingham 13 9 Bath Female Radical Association 0 113 Marylebone and Paddington Victim Committee ........ 2 0 0 Sir , by inserting these few lines in your paper of Saturday next , with the sums above named , yeu will greatly oblige , Yours respectfully , Sarah Clayton .

      n . b . au communications addressed to Mrs . Clayton , No . 87 , Potter-street , Sheffield , will fee promptly attended to . Sheffield , March , 16 th , 1841 .

      £M$Mal Aparltamcut

      £ m $ mal aparltamcut

      HOUSE OF LORDS , Friday , March 19 . Petitions for the total abolition of church patronage were presented : in favour of the Corn Laws , from Cork and other places in Ireland ; and . in favour of Church Extension . The Burl of Aberdeen presented a petition from Newfoundland , similar In many respects to one which be had brought under the consideration of the House in 1839 . The petition set forth that it was the most distracted and unhappy colony under the dominion of GrtmBritain , and that of late its condition had become much worse . Its greatest evils had arisen from an abuse of the constitution granted to it in 1831-2 , and the House of Assembly was at present constituted in such a manner that It was impossible it could discharge its legislative functions with advantage to the colony . The petitioners prayed for parliamentary inquiry .

      The Marquis of Normandy said , in the early part of the session the governor had stated to the House of Assembly that the matter was under the consideration of the Government at home , but the Noble Earl appeared to have overlooked that point . An amendment of the election laws had also been recommended by the governor , and in the event of their refusing to do ao , he had stated his intention to suspend tbe issuing of writs until he had received the instructions of the Government at home . Under these circumstances , he hoped the Noble Earl would not press the subjeot fur-, ther at present .

      Mr . Nicholls , the resident Irish Poor Law Commissioner , was then called to the bar and examined . He admitted tkat great , irregularities had taken place , but he could not well account for them . He also bore testimony to the high character of Mr . Stanley for integrity and veracity . After a lengthened examination , the witness was ordered to withdraw , and their Lordships adjourned till Monday .

      Monday , March 22 . Mr . Phelan was examined at great length relative to the returns from the Poor Law Union of ClonmeL Mr . Pedder , an attorney , residing in Clpsxnel , was also examined , after which it was resolved that Mr . Hal ) , from the Office of the Poor Law Commissioners , should be ordered to attend at the bar on Friday next , aud Mr . Hawley ( one of the Assistant Poor Commissioners ) on Monday .

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      HOUSE OF COMMONS , Frida y , March 19 . . On tbe motion of Lord John Russell , the House -went into committee on the grant from the Consolidated Fund to the South Australian Company . Sir W . MOLES WO RTII did not think the grant went far enough to meet the justice of the case ; it appeared to him that the debt due by tbe Commissioners to the Emigration Fund , amounting to £ 56 , 000 , ought to be included in the present vote , or a supplemental one ought to be taken to that amount . The Chancellor of tbe Exchequer explained that the present vote was not a final settlement of the matter ; it was merely to provide for the repayment of bills advanced upon the faith of the colony , and from which parties were now suffering under very great inconvenience and difficulty . ¦ The resolution to appropriate a sum of £ 155 , 000 from the Consolidated Fund , by way of loan , was then agreed to . .

      On tbe motion for going into Committee on the Poor Law Continuance Bill , My . Wauley moved an instruction to the Committee to divide the Bill into two parts . He proposed to separate the clauses relating to the law itself , from the clauses relating to the continuance ef the Commission ; and thus , be said , he gave an opportunity to those who wished to render the measure permanent , without prolonging the Commission beyond the five years . Mr . Wakley indulged in a denunciation of tbe cruelty of tbe law as it ia at present administered . He told a story , of a child who had died while its mother was in the Workhouse ; it had been taken from her to be weaned , and died of convulsions ; its death waa concealed irom the mother , until she beard it accidentally ; she ran after the body to the burialground , and there tbe first thing that she beard was that it could not be taken into the church , because it was supposed to have died £ of the smallpox . Be warned

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      the landed aristocracy that this law would endanger their seats ; and he pronounced the House—the Reformed , he could ^ ot call it the amended House of Commons—that Could sanction such a measure , woTse than the old Boroughmongering House of Coramous . Lord J . RUSSELL had listened in vain for any argument in support of the Hon . Gentleman ' s ututiuo . They bad been favoured with a dissertation on the Reform Bill , and he recol ected , when that measure wjs before the House , it was alleged by some that if the right of returning msuibsrs was conferred upon tue metropolitan districts , they would have sent into that House men who ought nerer to have been

      there—mischievous demagogues , having no regard for tbe r > -al interests of tha people , and who , if they happened to be lawyers , and sat in courts of justice , would turn them into arenas for political discussion , and pervert the powers conferred on them to their own purposes . ( Cheers and laughter . ) With respect to the child alluded to by Mr . Wakley , Lord John bad been told that it was kept from , the mother in order that excitement might not aggravate its malady ; but the concealment of itadeatb . was exceedingly blamrable . Lord John reass ' jrted the principle , that a Poor Law is meant to provide simply for destitution . Mr . FieLden -opposed the bill .

      Lord Gk Somerset objected to the Bill being divided into two parts , although he was strongly opposed to several of its clauses . Colonel Sibtuorpe expressed his determ i nation to give the measure his most strenuous opposition . Sir H . YERNEY believed that since it had come into operation tUe wages of the labourers bad been increased , and that , the general feeling of the country was in its favour . After some further discussion Mr Wakley withdrew his amendment . Mr . T . Parker then * moved , as an amendment , that the Bill be committed that day six months . Thu Hon . Member reierred t © returns of the amount of poor rates levied In various agricultural and manufacturing districts , in order to show that of late years tbej had considerably increased , and that , therefore , the argument upon-which the supporters of the Bill mainly rested , viz that it would effect a considerable saving in the amount of poor rates , was of no value . Mr . GIUMSDITCH seconded the amendment

      After aome further discussion , the House dividt-d , when there appeared , for going lllto committee , 247 ; for the amendment , 51 . The House then went into committee . Lord J . Russell , in answer to Col . Sibthorpe , state * that it was his intention to propoaa that the number of assistant commissioners be reduced to twelve . Mr . B . Wood moved that the number of assistant commissioners be reduced to five , and after the 31 sfc of December , 1843 , that no assistant commissioners do continue in offiee . The Hon . Member ultimately withdrew his amendment , but Col . Sibthorpe insistsd ou dividing tho committee on the amendment , when there appeared—for the amendment 46 ; against it . l : il . On the motion of Mr , W . Atiwood , the Chairman reported progress , and asked leave to sit again-Adjourned at a quarter past twelve o ' clock . Monday , March 22 .

      Lord J . Russelx . in reply to a question from Sir R . Peel , said he should proceed with the early clauses of the Poor Law Amendment Bill that « v . ening , in enler to give an opportunity for discussing the various amendments , of which notice bad buen given . He should then propose to resume tke committee on Friday and Monday next , after which he intended going on with , it de die in diem . On the motion for resolving into Committee , on the Poor Law Amendment Bill , Mr . H . HiNDE . said he hoped there was no intention to hurry the Bill through the House btfore Easter . . ' . . . ' : Lord J . Russell said there was no such intentiuj . He thought , however , that in Committee , Ioug iuturvals between each sitting were detrimental . Sir E . Suhdkh hoped that some clause would be introduced to enable married couples to live together in workhouses . The separation of man and wife created a strong feeling against the Poor Law .

      Colonel Wood said that in the Staines Union aged couples were not separated , but were allowed a room to themselves , with a fire in it , where they might live comfortably . Mr . Wakley quoted a correspondence respecting the Uxbridge Union , where the Board ef Guardians had refused to sick paupers the diet ordered lor them by the medical attendant . In gaols the medical officers had always absolute power in this respect . Mr . Darby said that under the Old Poor Law the order of the medical attendant must be confirmed . If the articles ordered were withheld there was an appeal to a magistrate , and so there was stiiL

      Lord Howick Baid that no Board of Guardians would refuse to attend to the orders of a medical attendant without strong and just grounds . It might happen that a man professing a medical education might also possess an . anxiety to acquire a low and despicable popularity , and might be capable of abuaing a trust repos « d in him . If the Beard of Guardians suspected a medical officer of an attempt to set asiiia the regular system of relief they would be quite right to set aside bis orders . He could scarcely credit it to be a fact , so discreditable to the gentlemen of England , as that a Board of Guardians would refuse articles really necessary when ordered by a medical man . Some discussion followed , in the course of which , ¦ Oeneral JOHNSON Said that it was with great p « n he bad beard what had fallen from Lord John Russell on Friday night

      Mr . Grots contended for the propriety of a check , on tbe part of the Guardians , over the medical attendant , because , etherwiae , the whole eontroul of the Union would rest with the latter functionary . Mr . Bastbope contended that there was ample security against any improper interference on the part of the medical officer , who might be discharged by the Guardians ; but it was not right that he ahOuld be limited in what he thought proper to order . Mr . W . Axtwood Baid , the lives of the paupers could not be considered safe if the medical attendant was not to be entrusted with any discretion as to their diet . After some further discussion , in the course of which some warm observations passed between Mr . Ward and Mr . W . Attwood , the House resolved itself into Committee . ' Lord John Russell moved the first clause , fixing the period for which the Poor Law Commission should exist

      Mr . EASTHOPE thought five years too long a period for the prolongation of the commission , and moved , as an amendment , that it should extend only until 1843 , Mr . Grotk was of opinion that the period should not be shorter than five years . He denied that the powers ef the commissioners were arbitrary , although they certainly were large , because the important duties they had to perform required that they should be so . '• Mr . Wakley said the Hon . Member for London bad not advanced a single reason why it was necessary to renew the commission for five years .

      Mr . Hawes said he had known the workhouses under the old law , and he bad a good deal of experience of union -workhouses , an * he solemnly declared that under the old system many of the workhouses were as bad as gaols , in which" treatment was experienced by the paupers which might justly be called torture ,- and yet Hon . Members now sought to destroy the only system which had ever grappled with the enormous evils of the old law . He denied that the present system could be fairly designated harsh or oppressiva in its operation , aud said he was willing to share all the unpopularity which might be incurred by the Hon . Member for the city of London , for defending this bill , Laving neither wish nor desire to sit in that House upon such popularity as might be acquired by opposing this bill .

      Mr . T . Duncombe said the question really at issue was , the extinction of the Commisii « n , or its perpetuity , and contended that the law could be better administered without a Central Board , by leaving its provisions to be carried out by the Boards of Guardians throughout the country . The Hon . Member then quoted instances of great cruelty which had been perpetrated in Union Workhouses , and asserted that under the old law no such cases had ever « ccurred . Mti DaEBY supported the ' -atnendment Mr . Hamilton contended that tbe Poor law Bill bad failed in one of its main objects , that of raising wages . On the contrary , it might easily be shown that its effect bad been to reduce tbem . He admitted that nothing could be worse than the old system , but it did not follow from that , that they should " go the whole hog" with this measure , and have" the Bill , the whole Bill , and nothing but the Bill . " He thought it might be necessary to continue the Commission , but he sheuld vote for its continuance for the shorter period .

      Sir Q , Strickland would also vote for the shorter period , and was of opinion that , unless some material changes were made , the present system could not continue to be the permanent law of the land . Mr . ViLLiKRS supported the clause . . Mr . W . Attwood supported the shorter period , Ia order to give a more frequent power of revision to the Hsuse of Commons . It was said that this was done indirectly , because in the estimates the question might be brought annually under consideration ; bat if ao , there could « urelf be do objection to do that directly which wa » not deemed injudicious when done indirectly . Mr . Mcntz thought it might be as well , in accordance with the principle of Toting the continuance of thia commission for five yeaw , to similarly Tote the Mutiny Bill and tha estimates -for five years . On a division , the amendment was negatived by a majority of 174 to 135 .

      Celonel Sibtbobf said be should take the sense of the House upon the reduction of tbe salaries of the Commissioners , from £ 2 , 000 a year to £ 1 , 000 , and their travelling expenses from three guineas to one guinea a day , which he thought quite enough to keep them in " good working condition . " He should also move to reduce the salaries of the assistanVcommiasionera from £ 700 a year to £ 300 a year . On the motion that the clause should stand part of the BUI , ..-. - ' ¦¦¦ Mr . J . Fielden moved that it be expunged . The committee again divided , and the amendment was negatived by a majority of 163 to 49 . The clause was then agreed to , the chairman reported progress , and obtained leave to aa again .

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      THE NORTHERN STAR . 7

  • Citation
    • Northern Star (1837-1852), March 27, 1841, page 7, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct699/page/7/