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Northern Star (1837-1852), 27th May 1843, Edition 5 of 6, Page unpag

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  • Departments (3)
    • m W v FBODUCERS OF TVEA1TH, AND ML THOSE WHO LIVE BY INDUSTRY nV THE LAND.
    • Ctarttgi 3rirUIItsntcf.
    • HSmpm'al ^arltamrnt.
  • Text (8)
  • Transcript

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      vjT Fsiem ^ j—When yon learn that I have been ill and confined to ihe house for three days of Akweek , that I hare written nearly & whole book , jl fcr for Cleaved Gradar , attended two public V jfhiML . wd bad daily consultation "with our ^ tad Mr . Koberts , npon the proceedings to take ^ e on Fridaj , in the Queen's Bench , yon will Jjrijpect » letter upon the Land , in the present

      |{ a » ber . HoireTW , I rejoioe to see that the subject . fBreinS it 5 e ^ the ' ^ a ^ 011 of * U classes . I wre been reading in the Times of this morning , the JLcJi of Mr . Honghton , recently made at an agricul-LjHiinner , and from that I learn that the minds of tfe but farmers are being turned to the consideration rftcioc means by which a market may be opened for the enp lojTBent of labour ; which , if not done , will as up tie profits of the big men , in the shape of gaor raics- Thus is the monitor now speaking whe -fil com wl » hearing .

      1 trust that the London reporter of the Slar -will a d » « °° ^ report ° f m J hectare npon the Land , ^ liierea on Tuesday night , to the most attentive ind en ;^ 2 t € 3 rd audience it has ever been my good jgrttneU' address . 1 thick 1 may with truth say , that my fondest # xKc ;»! ii > " ? aTe inoTe l ^ a hundred-fold realized ; is I bad w reason to expect that men who never gee a £ re £ n ^ ^ ' " ^ ^ ° ^ ^ l ^ - meat is kojd in butchers' shops , and vegetables in green peers ' , would be so anxicaf ^ y alive to this all-JMoniEt subject ; however so it was . The question w tikeo roo :, 2 . nd grow , and flourish , and mature , it

      jga ^ e ^ y will " Ob Monday , the 12 th of June , I shall hare the jj 5 t number of a practical work on small farms ready jbf publication . Eich cumber will contain fortyejht pages of original matter , with plates , illnstratjggp Lins of public I nil dings , cottages , and grounds , jjj letting forth tbe plan by which I hope to see to ftoJKi carried out , price sixpence ; and I hare jf leqmst ibst timely orders may be sent to Beywo od , ( Tobim-street , Manchester ; Cleave , 1 , ftce-lane . Fleet-street , London ; and Hobson , ygrthern Srar Office , Leeds ; as I hare no desire to i » Ts i' ^ 'J worih of pamphlets left upon my hands , % i I hid of portraiis , which were ordered but not

      lud for . i hate strong hope that in my next I may be able to congratulate you upon the successful diedaaon of the Lancaster trials . I the more long jBiueh a result , as I feel assured that an unfavourite ( trmlnziioD wonld hare a very prejudicial effect ipm the beahh of Mr . Roberts , who has realiy tacome a monomaniac upon this , to him , all-absorbog subject . ] a \ " oald Ireland" doing her work well ? 5 &nt I tell you that when Paddy became in amen he would be an awkward customer * Hurrah for the Repeal I but not of the Corn ] m Your faithful servant , Feabgcs O'Co . v > 'ob .

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      I 0 XDON . —A public lecture w&s delivered on fts& r evening , at the City of London Political and Sdati ^ c InstituroD , by Feargns O'Connor , Esq . zpei the land , admission twopence . Shortly preraos to ei ^ ht o'clock , Mr . O'Connor arrived , and re greeted with lond approbation . On the motion sf Mr . CcSay , Mr . Shaw was called to the chair , BJin an appropriate manner introduced tho busijes of the evening . Mr . O'Connor commenced by jSsfing to tbe numbers present , and expressed his srpiise that so uninteresting a subject as the land ascidhave drawn so many together . The land by ik artifices of wily statesmen and glib philosophers bd been artfully shrouded from the -new of

      workis ? men , jet tbere was not a ? ingle person present » k , hi the chape of bread , butter , milk , beef , &c mnot interested in it . The land was the grand Krce from whence was procured everything they seemed , were , or lived by ; and what more was KtSEary to show it in us most fascinating form ? 3 tlaad wss a : the bottom of every national quests . If it was a question of national taxation , the Bid was at the bottom ; ii i : was a State Church fedon , or oes of demand and supply , of expor-3 na or importation , the land was at the bottom . Hat were all questions of improvement , though

      eaked under titles of enclosure bills , drainage bills , itbot questions of the ] atd ? What was that subpn which was now driving sane men mad and Biasg fools langa—ibe subject of the Corn Inrs , but a question of the land ?—( Hear , iar . ) Did they suppose that the House of basons had sat so ma . i . y Lours oa the previous n £$ to discuss a question of Canadian rights 1 Sisaeb thing ; it was should corn be grows on Briaa « r American land , Cobbett , thai great writer e ii ! qaesdons dear to working men , had established £ efitt that Britain had four times more land than

      ** 5 necessary ' . o grow food for her population , Ta : gave power to the army and the navy?—What JBdated ibe Income and other taxes 1—What suplerted the Special Commission , by which he and Was had beea tried , but the malappropriation of &t aad ! It was the evil of political power being sadad : o the land , which he was anxious to de-*> Knte ; deprive th « land of its enfranchising caSae , and it would then be brought into the re-^ Bsrket ; then wonld the nation b-. cwme great ^ Tfl ^ erful . It might be asserted , because they * 3 jSffoufld ' eo ! by splendour , aodbecause foreigners PR JSar capital in our funds , that the nation was aaaad powerful ; but teat only showed the wealth

      « as few and the poverty of the many . For a nation * W ere&i , every ma . ii must be sotnbody ; a ** J * - ' -b _ xo&eif-respect was like a wcxd in a corn * . a ; aad he had no hesitation iu asserting th » i ? ffiakir-g men individually powerful , by giving 2 tea the sou oi the country , they would be more pspresei is a naiion , botn at home and abroad , « M &ey Wfrenow , ev « n if they had not a guinea -s ^ eEtuora ! ceffe rs . So lon g as land gave votes , * wng wcuid the landlords let it to those whose 5 ** s ^? j cosJd command , and would keep it out * ^ * ^ — — ^ . ^ v V 4 AA 4 IW ^^ J ^^ *^ ^^ ^^ ^^ " ^^ + —

      ~ y >« reuil niarke :. The moment a man com-^ BWd iabonrjtg for ihe benefit of s . noiheT , that 5 * ffit Blayfry commenced ; and , when he should ** for his own individual benefit , then would ^ aal frft-iom commence . The present ad minis-? j * 2 > Tnth the txception of the Dute of Buc-|» C ! gad a few others , might be rightly termed as ftrper Administration ; they had all sacrificed £ ~ p fc " -i : e ? *~ r p , ;; t cal p&wer . A man who did not ^• ps&nd xhe qaenion might say , if land would ^^ i hcm so i&jch m ore in the retail market ~ '? " ' in lie wholesale ! It was

      &L - - * - * one v ^ f *" - hev cvuld xtike five or ten millions more r ^ ^ !' -- tDe ' c -. ail market , they could make ^ , ^" ar : ? as " 'i ;' . oii « by retaining political power . if- T ' ' - , ^ ' - -- ' a = trated by several examples , w l l ~ - zia- _? Ciinrch a land question ? Tbe ^ s « or , r thousand acr-s it : in g boun d up in the ^^ j . rtcoijijlzrij ; .-he 5 , & ? ., as a jiational tas , | k Uifr c ^ e : ; . cn 52 Ld acres was divided aiLODg l , ^^ r eti a ^ d £ ~ >' -y small proprietors hebenevea ^ g . ° 5 i : hi a o . iz : ul : matter for my Lord Wharufc ^ : 0142 .- 0 I --r ii--n to persuade such a rural poi * gf ? ^ s . ' tL ? y on ^ ht to pay for the support of taCC £ t {/ DC > er .. r ^ -T ' r . 5 Tis tr > rV-.. ir nrinrinifts . or to ft

      ( w ? J C 3 tn ^ ed their souls osce a week . The ^ « wis ess-. artally a laud question . What did tsj 'J 1 ** ^ Bl ^ e pow er of a pplvii ^ their labour to ^ aw BiMeri ^ for their own " benefit ? and until iii ?* I ^^ cssioo of i he raw material of the ' <* l ^ f 7 W 0 Ui < i never be able to compete with xg Jv ^ &an mannfactarer . Wba : was the new i ^ J that was now buzzing abou t the ears of Sir j ^ f -ie ( Mr . O'Connor ) had predictsd that the j ^ nrncaae that passed over Sir Robert would be ifjT ^ . ttore thaa a Qjartiat breeze , that it would *» «; \ ^ cii ¦ woul d spKEg from his own atmosphere ^? ; snrsed h , his ovtp . cra . dle . He ? aw the Bneks sJf * . ? ° e saw ; he T ^ rbs ir . r ? t : n ? : he = aw that

      « I ! t Jn ao ^ -osd on S ^ r Kobrit to power as tbe * 4 feT * io COE ] d R 2 : vie ihe Tt 55 e ' - » the Back ' ^*® ^ &Ed t he Blacksiones , were arrayed against fcj r possessed more power on the plar-*» «^ ¦* 0 B ti e rostrum ; the warfare had jjjy ^ Beneed between the agriculturist who * W * v V ^^ ing nree ; , and the agriculturist ^ r ^ t lhe Plough . What was the new * £ * or LMand—( hear , hear , and cheer ? , ) tbe ** HLz " ** tt 0 £ t industrious men that the sun fc ajjj * . on ? Did they demand for tnemfielves }^« 1 bibjj ? K 0 ; but they demanded that fifor ? - ° ald be allowed to cultivate the soil of

      *•* Kt * * ¦ n 3 e iaB ^ o 1 " * and the parson were J ^ jJ ??^^ thoug h the former had got five per « H te , ^ ? ke thought the parson got seventy-Q ^ , 5 ^ aote than he ought . What was tbe y ^ OBKV- ^ * question ! it was not one of gas , *^^ > orof « h » dow ; the Church never fought fcHjj / * r »; to the devil might go the spiritualities ¦*» oJ « * Siasped the substance . It was naught I ^ CSS of ^ Jand - w ^»* ihe ^ P ^ «»^ t tT ^* ? I * ^ w not one of the moon or stars , JJb jj ^ r oiight have an JEfluence on the weather , ^ iad > * ^ ne !? tioi i of wheat , and though ' Hade , ^ ° * ked the subject over and hidden **^ ap » t ? of Difctapbysics , yet sober-minded S * n ^ " ^^ Jnai land produced wheat , and - ** tfcV ?? qaestion of how to get the land »< s fcHh- ^ L ' hfckad ^ onghtraacb . * nd "" ¦"'• > out he never ccnld divine why men

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      should receave their sympathy and applause who kept from them the i * nd-the means of obtaining their subsistence . He had heard the weeping poor ' man s friend wailing that his bread should bVso I k 6 had heaTd ^ e dissenting and the bigbedied parson weeping and sympathizing , and still coining the poor man ' s sweat into gold ; and when ne heard and read in the press of their sympathy , was u not natural that the working man should bud- pose that they only wanted their eyes opened to the true remedy immediately to adopt it ? but the fact j was , that the manufacturer equally with the aristo- ' crat . was interested in depriving the man of

      polipoor tical power , and of keeping the land in the ' , wholesale market —( loud cries of hear , hear ) . ' He challenged all the glib philosophers of the d 3 y to overturn his position . With six hours notice he would meet any Oxonian cantab . political economist , or Malthusian philosopher , and prove the correctness of his views on the land . That mau was entitled to i his freed ©* was allowed by politicians of all rarties , but an artificial barrier was placed between him and ihe natural < ioor by which to acquire that freedom . ' The manufacturing market was overloaded with labourers . Many of his poor countrymen were com- pelled by dire necessity to come to the land of the ' :

      stranger for that sustenance denied to them in the laud of their birth , and thereby constituted a reserve for the employers to fall back upon . He would open I for them the natural market , the land , which would regulate the price of the artificial market ; and all who were tired of the rattle box—all those mothers I whose children where carried to tbe manufacturing charael bouse ^—all those fathers who by j the glinuueriDg of tbe gases , by the light of the moon , dragged their offspring to unnatural toil—all ' those men who were tired of living on ths labour of ! their wives and children , would flock to this natural j opening for their exertions . He wished not to ! limit machinery , he proposed that machinery should ; be man ' s holiday and not his curse . He would alle- ] viate their toil not by abolishing machinery , but by \

      subjecting it to fair competition with the natural market ; then instead of all the wealth being in the haad 3 of the idle , and want and misery being the portion of the industric-as , the manufacturers would be compelled to do one of two things , either to close their shops or to give a ? good a price for labour as it would fetch in the natural market . Why they did not do this was because they were afraid of one another . Peel was trying to juggle the anti Corn Law League , and the League were trying to juggle Peel , and they well knew that both parties were juggling them . ( An Irishman here asserted that Cob den was not trying to joggle . ) He wonld try Cobden by that test , dearer to him as au Irishman than all othera . Would Cobden vote for the Repeal of the

      Lniont When that question was discussed in the Honse , and spite of the frothy declamation of Peel aaid Wellington , though they might fill the Hou 3 e fuller than it would hold with denunciations of Ko peal ; yet they must discuss it—( cheers ) . He a ^ ked , again , would Cobden vote for it ! The question kof Repeal was entwined with that of the land ; they were told they had not land enough to grow food , but must call in the aid of scientific Itgislation-Let them look at Ireland—let the Irish , instead of emigrating from tbe land of their birth , be allowed to remain and cultivate ii ; and , afier they had supplied their eivn population with bread , beef , butter , and all the good things of tbe land , they vvunld have surplus enough to supply the whole English

      population . The question of Repeal was indeed a question of the land . Mr . O'ConnoT then related , in a humourous manner , an anecdote of an Irishman he had met the previous evening , who had leit his employment , because he thought bo much of Repeal ; and , a / t « r giving him Is ., a ? ked him to what purpose be would apply it ! He would send it to the ' lint * to be sure ,- " when Mr . O'Connor gave him another for himself . Mr . Cobbett had > aid that a quarter of an acre of land would keep a cow all the y ? ar , and that its produce would be , with seventeen days labour , £ 57 per annum . Mr . Cobbett , they must recollect , was not a theoretical man ; he boasted that he dug the ground , sowed the seed , and reaped tbe harvest . Mr . O'Connor then went into ihe

      minute details of the land question , and most feelingly described the miseries endured by the mass of the population , and tse comparative paradise the tDJoyment of the land would place within their reach . They were told he was not loyal—that he was { Ofiiiy o . sedition , routs , riots , tumults , rebellion , and the devil knew what beside ; he had been found guilty of doing nothing . Now here , he hsd done nothing , and done it wrocg—( laughter ) . They wonld &e loyal when they had something to be loyal to—when they had something in return for it ; could they be loyal to a raulf-box , to a steam engine , a railroad , a Stock Exchange , or a palace ? there was more loyalty iu silting uuder the ri ^ en oak where tkeir fathers had sat ; there was more

      loyalty in treadiiig the grassy path still fresh with the footsteps of their forefathers , and in milking the eow which their mothers bad milked ; there was more loyalty in living in tbe honse where their fathers had lived and in being buried in the same place ; there was more loyalty in going to the parish school , to the parish church or chapel—in viewing those beauties of nature , than there was in tgil ::: gin a rattle-boi or gazing at a splendid review , —there was patriotism , a higher word than loyalty , iu those feelings—ihere was love of country . When these times again returned there would be no fear of disaffection . A fomented rural population , if threatened with foes or invasion , woald run with greater alacrity to the sound of their cottage

      being in danger , than rouse to . the cry of the church is a tumbling . He was scarcely sorry things were come to the present pass , if ont of them the regeneration of his country should spring ; he could scarce complain of persecution , of being almost banished from his native land , if out of his struggling , good should arise . He had struggled long and well to attain the mighty object or achieving freedom for both nations , and he thanked God that the day had arrived , when the English-working classes could testify their love for Irelaijd . —( great cheering- ) Their injuries and their resentments were buried in oblivion ; tfee party spirit encouraged by their oppressors hud given way before tbe generous manliness of their disposition ; all angry

      thoughts were banished now that his country was assailed by the common enemy . Mr . O'Connor then again reverted to the capabiiities of the land , and ridiculed the idea of a superabundant population ; if there was not something wrong and perverted in man's character , could he wi'h f ± ekr . z ; s of aught hu : indignation look on the trooper ' - * fa : ted horse and view also a starving population ? could he see the Eplendid equipages of the great with their fatted horses tended like baoes , while the children cf working men were deprived of food \ Why should his counUymen b- sjntto foreign shores to lav their bones in a foriegn grave , wkile the trooper ' s horse employed for slaughter and destruction , was consuming the corn ol" their

      fathorlsBd ? Hewonld see the throats of every fatted horse , of every do .:, cu : ; and of every animal which » ived upon man ' s food ; he would would sec the stalely forest : oyted up and planted with pjczzi corn ere he would give way to their MaltLuiian ioc-: rjn-.- ; aid then , if Gcd in his mercy eld . nvt sen-. ' a iufne ^ at supply of food , he would dru ' . v lots with his feJ ! ow men wko should go to foreign lands in search of lood , but until then , said Mr . O'Connor , let us hear no more of the , wailing advocates oi Malthus , and their tricks of trade . Until man was placed upon the soil to support himself by his own labour it was idle to talk that the land would not support tbe population . Mr . O'Connor then alluded to the embarrassed state of the Government , and to the stand his countrymen were makiug for

      Repeal , and concluded by stating that bis doctor had advised him not 10 attend meetings in his present delicate health ; but he felt more invigorated and refreshed now than when he entered the room , he believed they had done him rcore good inan if ' ne had taken all the drugs in a doctor ' s * nop ; it was the sitting too close to : be ue ? k and attending less at meetings , which had lately injured his health . Mr . O'Connor then exemplified the s-dvaiuages of union , by referring io the profits oi the meeting which were devoted to the paying a portion of tbe debt off tbe hall , and sat down amid great applause . Mr Parkes moved , and Mr . Railton seconded a vote of thanks to Mr . O'Connor , which was cairied by acclamation . Mr . O'Connor britfly replied . Mr . Wheeler moved , and Mr . Wales sccuiided a vote of thanks to the chairman , and the meeticg adjourned .

      A MEETIXG ef the Council resident in London , wa held on Sunday alternooa , at the Political and Scientific Institution , Tnrangain-laDe , Mr . Knight in the chair . Mr . Wbeeler wa » appointed Secretary p . o iem . Correspondent * waaiead from Cogglfuball . Oldham , Greenwich and other places . Mr . Wneelex etated that in consequence of tbe majority of the ceniitry members having left London , and th » paucity of communications from tbe country , it was advisable that the idea of a Delegate meeting being held on the following Tuesday , should be abandoned . Mr . Page moved and Mr . Mallard seconded that the anbject should be adjourned one month , iff order that tie important districts in the country might have an opportunity of expressing tbeii opinions on the best time and place of holding a Dslegate Meeting . Mr . Simpson supported the motion and urged tbe necessity of immediate rteps being taken to call aX 3 onfeTer . ee , that some efficient organizitioB might be adopted ; Mr . Thorpe was of opinion tfcat tbe meetwg should be held oa ihe Tnesday , it woald » erve eb a

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      preparatory conference . Mr . Mills moved aa an amendment that it be deferred a fortnight ; tbe amendment was not seconded and tbe original motion was carried without a dissentient . The Council then adjourned for one month . The Metropolitan Delegate Meeting was held on Sunday , Mr . Knight in tbe chair . 2 * . 6 d . waa received from Clockhouse aiid It . 6 d . from BoomBbury . Tbe meeting then adjourned to make room for tbe General Council .

      Political and Scientific Institution , Tcrnagais-Lase—Mr . Parkes preached here on Sunday morning , and was much applauded . On Sunday evening , Mr . Paxkes addressed a large audience on the fate of Frost and othtr political martyrs , and was listened to with great attention . Mr . Brown occupied the chair . Messrs . Mee , Brown , Spurr , Benbow , Muntz , Cowan , and Rathbona , toek part in a discussion whicfc ensued . A collection was made at the close . SOUTH SHIELDS . —Mr . Beealey lectured here on Tuesday evening , at Mr . D uleaVi , Scarbro' Spa , on the

      land question . After the lecture the following resolution , proposed by Wm . QilfillaB , seconded by Thomas Routiedge , and ably supported by Mr . Samuel Kydd , bookseller , was unanimously agreed to : — " That it is tb-i opinion of this meeting that the letters of Feargus O'Connor , Esq , on the land , and the lectures of Mr . B&esley , on tno same snbject , are well worthy of the serious attention of the people of this country , as tbe best means of obtaining the People ' s Charter ; also the surest method of securing their permanent happiness when that great measure becomes the law of the

      land . " TEOVILX ., SoMEfiSET 8 HiBK .- ^ A Mr . Brown , a Corn Law Repealer , lectured hire on the Corn Laws , a few days ago . He was opposed by Mr . G . Maunder , who sought to obtain from him a distinct avowal that the repeal of the Corn Laws , under existing circumstance ? , would benefit the people . The lecturer , however , fought shy , and left the town without effecting the object for which he came . The " lads'" taught him a lesson , and convinced him that ho could not have all his own way .

      ARNOLD , near Nottingham . —In our last paper we gave an account of the proceedings consequent upon the election of a person to the office of poorrate collector . We have now to state that the poll , which had been demanded by the Whigs , took place on Monday last , whan the Chartists rallied in all their strength , and by a determined effort placed their man at the head of the poll , tbe numbers beiug —For Mr . Mellow , Chartist , 220 : for Mr . Thomas , the Churchman , 203 ; majority , 25 . Tho announcement was received with tremendous cheering . BURY . —On Sunday two sermons wero preached by Mr . Hill , in the Garden-slreet Room , on behalf of the funns of the Sunday school connected therewith . The congregations were numerous and attentive . The collections amounted to £ 7 4 s . od .

      ROCBBAWB . —On Tuesday eveniug Mr . Hill lectured in the Theatre to a full house . Afrer the lecture he called the attention of the audience to the condition of poor Cooper and Richards in Stafford hell hole . A committee was appointed to draw up a petition forthwith and to send it to Mr . Crawford for presentation . Both there and at Belton a number of the new Chartist Hymn Books were bought by tbe people ; the trade profit upon whtch Mr . Ii . gives tothedefende fund , in the name of the respective towns .

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      HOUSE OF COMMONS—Friday , May 19 . Several notices of motion were given and questions asked . After which Lord Stanlet brought forward his resolutions relating to the importation of Canadian wheat and wheat flour . The Js ' oble Lord moved that , in Heu of tho duties now payable upon wheat and wheat flour imported into the United Kingdom from Canada , tbe duty for every quarter of wheat should he Is ., and for every barrel of wheat , meal , or flour , being 196 pounds , a duty equal in amount to the duty payable on 38 A gallons of wheat .

      Mr . Labouchere opposed the motion , and moved as an amendment , an address to the Crown to withhold the Royal Assent from the Bill passed by the Canadian Legislature . Mr . Thornelt seconded the amendment . A debate ensued , in the course of which sevrral members gave utterance to their sentiments , and at midnight , the debate was adjourned until Monday .

      MONDAY , May 22 . In answer to a question from Sir Andrew Leith Hay , relative to the Secession from the Scotch Church , Sir J / mks Graham Faid that ninety-three endowed Ministers of the Established Church had seceded , a great number of lay members , and an additional number of quoad sacra ministers had also gone with them , and that her Majesty ' s Government would watch the proceedings of the General Assembly with regard to any measure that legally constituted body might adopt . The debate on the Canadian Corn question vra ? then resumed and carried with some spirit . On a division , ministprs bad a majority of 188 , the numbers being , for Lord Stanley ' s proposition , 344 ; for the amendment , 156 .

      TUESDAY , Mat 23 . A great number of petitions on various questions were presented . jtfr . Hawes brought on his motion , for an address to the Queen on the subject of Danish Claims . The motion was withdrawn on a point of form .

      KNUr . SFORD QAOL . Mr . T . DTJXCOMEE said that . in rising to call the attention of the House to the motion of "which he bad given notice , be might he allowed to explain how one so totally unconnected with thj Couniy of Chester , came to be mixed cp in a question Apparently of a local character . When , on the 22 nd of February , he rose to call tbe attention of the House to the conduct of the Lord Chief Biron iLord Abinger ) , at tbe special commission , held last October , wfeile he ^ Mr . T . Duncombe ) found fault ¦ w ith some of the sentenees passed by that Noble a . ; d Learned Lord , he said that the severity of those sentences was much aggravated by tbe severity with which the prisoners ¦ were treated in the

      gaol of KnuUford . On tbe fo lowing day the Honourable Member for Cheshire asked -why he ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) had not given him notice of hia intention to allude to the discipline enforced at Knutsford , and at the same time said that he ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) had been altogether misinformed on the subject . He immediately wrote to his informant to Bay that his statements Were likely to be disputed . The staterr .-. nts which he ( Mr . T . Dancombe ) had made relative to the treatment of the prisoners at Knutsford , amoun ' . e 1 to this ; that tbe Chartist prisoners complained that ot ; thtir arrival at the prison , they had been aJd : e 8 Bed in vary violent and insolent language by the gaoler ; secoudly , that some of those prisoners were put upon the treadmill out of their

      turn for the amusement of some ladies aud geutlemen who visited the prison ; thir

      ougLt to t ~ e iscsived -with extreme caution , ami therefore he b ' . ggtd ieave to adhere to the statement he hail originally i- -de . After that contradiction , be thought tli * . liomt mi ^ ht fairly complain of the attempt tint had been made to mislead the House . If he had himself c'vsn w . iy en that occasion , perhaps not one of tbu iniquities connected with this prison would ever hr . Vc come to light . In consequence , however of his perse verftnee in adhering to his statement , the Kight Hoo . Barontt r pposite announced hia intention to send dowu an inspector to investigate the circumstances connected with tbe case , if he ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) would furnish him witb the information which he was possessed of . Mr . Wi iiams , the inspector of prisons , accordingly proceeded to institute aa . investigation into the case , and among other witnessed examined the Chaplain ot

      the prison ; and if Hon . Gentlemen would take the trouble to ravd the report of Captain Williams , they would find tbat every statement made by him ( Mr . T . Dancombe ) was fully proved and substantiated by that report . With respect to tbe charge against tbe governor of having used to the prisoner * violent and insulting language , the Inspector said that , upon tbe concurrent testimony of the pmeDers themselves , corroborated in a considerable degree by tbe evidence of Mr . Tracey , an officer of tho county gaol , it appeared that the words addressed to prisoners by the governor , on their arrival , -were to the following effect : — " Now , yen special commission men , you were sent here to be punished , and you shall be punished The discipline of thia prison is bo rigorously enforced , and tbe l&ws so strict , tbat if I have to panisb any

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      of you , it will have such an effect upon your constitutions , that even under the most favourable circumstances , the strongest man among you won't have a constitution that I would give twopence for when your Sentence ahxll expire . " Mr . Tracey described this aa " harsh language , " but he ( Mr . Duncombe ) believed the house would agree with him tbat it was a most brutal speech . The report afterwards proceeded : — " The chaplain also deposes , that on the 5 th of December the governor met bim in the prison yard , and , apparently under considerable irritation , addressed him in these wordg : Faithurst , and some of these Chartists , have been complaining about their beef ; ' and further saiJ , ' Damn theas Chartists , 1 * 21 give them their belly-full before I have done with them . " " It appeared , when

      tbts speech wag made , no third person was present . ( Huar , hoar , from Mr . E ^ erton . ) From that cheer it was evident that the Hon . Member intended to give credence to the testimony of the governor in preference to a man of respectability like the Rev . Chaplain of tho . gaol . If the governor denied the accuracy of tho charge , why had be not cross-examined the Chaplain on that point ? In consequence of what had tukeu place , he ( Mr . T Duncombe ) had other testimony respecting the language Mr . Burgess , the governor , was in the habit of ufaing with respect to his prison era . It was a letter from a tradesman of Knutsford , who was quite ready to cgnie before a committee of the House , if a committed should he granted . The letter tan thus : —

      " Knutsford , March 17 , 1843 . " Sir , —After perusing your remarks lately made in the House of Commons relative to the House of Correetioiftit-KuuUford , I beg leave to state tbat Burgess , who is the bead gaoler , has in the most unfeeling manner publicly boasted , in tbe midst of a promiscuous company , ia the bar of the George Inn , where he occasionally goe& to pnss his evenings , ' of the short time in which by his prison discipline he can break down ( as he expressed himself ) the constitutions of prisoners , ' who unfortunately by their misdeeds placed themselves uuder bis tender mercies : such is this man ' s boast , his favourite theme ; no person of any respectability win in the most distant manner associate with him . He had orders from the hostess of the Oaorge Inn to tak « a room whomever he came there , as people who frequent the inn retire with horror from his presence on ace 'unt of the merciless remarks he habitually indulges in , relative to the treatment of his prisoners . "

      For his part ho ( Mr . Duncombe ) believed Mr . Brown , and he did not believe Mr . Burgess ; and he'thought there would be grtit difficulty in finding any ono out of that House to belipvo that Mr . Burgess did not uss the words attributed to Lim by Mr Brown . The report went en to say— "It is alleged tbat certain of the prisoners were , on Thursday , the 20 Ch of October , in the sessions week , placed upon the treadwheel , out of their regular turn , for the purpose of shewing it working to strangers visl' . ing tho home of correction . It appears to be customary for tbe grand jury , at every sessions and adjourned sessions , to go through the house of correction previous to their discharge , and that they are occasionally accompanied by females ; that at such times , if the treadwfieel is not at work * prisoners are

      tailed out from their warUs ; md plact'd upon it for a short time , to show tho manner of its working . The complaint made by the prisoners of having © n one occasion been placed on tlie wheel for rack purpose in tho sessions week , ia , I consider , just , and that the practice is at all times objectioiial . " Here again tbe inspector fully bore him ( Mr . Diir . i rube ) out in the charge he had made . At tbe Geueral Quarter Scsaions , held on the 17 th of last month , tbn magistrates there assembled agreed to a report to tbo S -cretury of State , in reply to the report cf tbei inspector . In speaking of the practice of placing prisoners on the Uea 4-wheel , for tho purpose of showing its working to visitors , the report of the magistrates said , " It appears to the Court that tue practice Las prevailed upon the occasions

      of the visits of the grand jury , and , as Captain Williams al'eges , on somo othtr occasions * ; but , as the latter instances appear to have occurred always in the presence of a magistrate , this Court contrivers the governor to be exonerated . " He was ready to prove that the statement that this was never done except iu presence of a magistrate was false . Ko could prove tbat l 3 dt summer a party , between four aud five in the afternoon , went to see the prison , and tbat seme prisoners were called out , for the amusement of the visitors , to show the working of the wheel , and that neither the governor nor a magistrate was present . The employment of a felon was admitted . Tho magistrates said , " It appears to the court that a prisoner couvicted of felony has been appointed by the governor to instruct

      misdemeanants in tho weaving , but he had no authority over them , and was never with them , unless he was calied for by them to fetch materials or to instruct the . ii . This court bave given directions that such practice shall not occur for the future . " Tbe insufficiency of food was also admitted , aud thus was each of hia ( Mr . Thomas Duneome ' s ) charges fully borne out by the report of the Inspector . It appeared that tho magistrates called the chaplain before them on the 17 lh of March , and subjected him to an examination , requesting him to state what had pnsseii between bim anil tbe inspector . The magistrates knew very wull what had occurred , for many of ihem had been

      present at tbu examination of the chaplain by Captain Williams . 11 would have been better , certainly , under these circumstances , if the chaplain bal answertd at or : r = ? , and hail said , " , I did sa 7 so and so ; I did giv « this inf . 'rmaUon ; I was on my oatb , an < i ,, bound to speak tbe truth . " Ho was asked why he bad not informed the magistrates at the tfme the worcis were used by the governor T He s&id he had received ordors , several years ago , to confine himself to his sphituai rlnties . He had , however , repeatedly entered on the journal caaes of irregularity en the part of thi governor , euc j as r . nn-fttt&ndance at prayers , or divine service , which , according to tbe rules , he was bound to attend . Th « resnlfc of all thfs had bflfln the dismissal If Mr .

      Brown , the chaplain . One charge brought against M r . Brown was , that he was in the habit of corresponding with him | Mr . Duncombe )—( a laugh . ) He bad not been aware that there was any very serious wrung in a man ' s corresponding with hiai , but , if there was , it was an offence Mr . Brown was wholly innocent of ; for until be ( Mr . Duncombe ) beard of his dismissal , he had never known of Mr . Brown ' s existence . The Hight Hon . Baronet the Secretary of State fer the Home Department , in a letter address id to the Chairman of the General Quarter Sessions for the county of Chester had pronounced his opinion on tbe conduct if the governor in these words : —•• I have the honour to transmit to you a copy of the report of the inspector of prisuns for the northern district , on an

      inquiry in'o the treatment of prisoners in tbe Knutsford House of C rrcc * ion . It is unnecessary for me to enclose a copy at tbe report which I received from the visiting justices soon after the termination of the inquiry , as they will doubtless already have transmitted to you iv copy for the information of the magistrates ; but I enclose a copy of the inspector ' s remarks on thu latter part of that report , relating to certain particulars which were not couth cted with the inquiry , but which the inspector deemed . ecessary to bring before the attention of the visiting justices . I have to request that you will submit these several statements to tbe magistrates of the county , at tht . ir first general meeting in quarter sessions , and rt quest their attention moat especially to those which relate to the conduct of the

      governor , that they msy determine whether , after what has occurred , they can , with cenfldence and with Hafety , continue him in an office of such responsibility . I forbear pointing out the various particulars which show indiscretion in the governor and inattention to his duties ; but I cannot omit to mention one instance in which he appears to me to have been guilty of very great misconduct . I refer to a certain case in which , ; ifter the expresa directions of tbe surgeon that Corparal puuishment should cca . se , he insisted tbat it should be continued , ami it was continued accordingly . The magistrates are fuily aware that if , on that occasion , life had been endangered and death had ensued , the governor must bavo been tried on a charge nw less than of

      homicide . And I am persuaded the magistrates will be sensible of the great responsibility wi . ich must be incurred by them , from subjecting prisoners any longer to the custody of one who could so misconduct hiiuseif . " The magistrates , however , had addressed the secretary iu these terms : — " This court remarks tbat it would be very convenient and conducive' to the discipline of the prison , if the inspector would report to the visiting magistrates any miscouduct in the officers or any other malter requiring their notice , as soon as it caniK io his knowledge , to which the magistrates will pay immediate attention . This coutt concludes by sayin * r , tbat after a careful investigation of the charges referred to its consideration , it ia ot opinion tbat with the exception of the case of the boy Trainer ( which has a ready been adjudicated upon ) , such charges aTe in

      themselves not of much importance , and their recurrence provided against , and are not each aa to deprive tte governor of the confidence which tbe magistrates bave hitherto reposed in bim , and which his general good conduct and tbe discipline which be has maintained in the prison have appeared to deserve . " He ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) would maintain again that all hia charges bad been fully borne out by tbe inspector's report , and if the correctness of that report was doubted , that was an additional reason wby this committee , for which be was about to move , ought to be granted . AtDo n * *; other charges against the governor was , that he bad neglected to affix the rules ia a proper part ol tbe prison . This was treated as a matter of little importance , tiut be ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) thought th * re was no put of the prison regulations of

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      more importance to the unfortunate prisoners , to whom it was of the highest importance to know the rules by which they were governed , and the nature of the rights of which they were not deprived . It was found that the gaoler had employed the prisoners , contrary to law , in mending hia gig ; tho irou was said to be only worth sixpence , but he ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) believed it to be really worth three shillings and sixpence . But suppose it be only worth sixpence , they saw men committed every day for . stealing a few halfpence worth of apples or turnip-tops . Thm a-j to tho circumstances connected with the whipping of the boy Edward Trainer , the case was said to have been adjudicated upon ; but the fact was , that he had been merely reprimanded by the magistrates . There wa 3 another case

      in which a . boy , named Baacroffc , had been flagged previously to his removal to Parkhtuat prison ; and hu was flogged so carelessly , tbat bis eye was severely injured by the thong . He understood that when a person was to be flogged in thia g iol , tbe town crier of Kuutsfotd -was called in to inflict the punishment at the rate of two shillings for each person . It was often the case that ho surgeon , or aa distant- surgeon , attended to witness the flogging administered , but merely an apprentice . The report of the surgeon , Mr . D « ane , ou the state of the gael , prison diet , &c , stated that since his appointment to the office he had noticed the falling away of the men employed In labour ; that his conviction was , that after an experience of fifteen years , it was impossible to keep men undergoing a long sentence :

      of imprisonment , in ordinary health , on a reduced allowance of food , and he , therefore , recommended that tbe allowance should be increased . Instead , however , of the gaoler giving tho prisoners an increase of food , as recommended by the surqeon , tbe punishment continually resorted to was a stoppage of their food . During tbe three months ending tbe 10 th of March , 1843 , toe stoppages of diet had been on the average 302 daily [ an Hon . Member on the Ministeral benches exclaimed "No ; that was tbe Dumber of prisoners . ''] Stoppage of diet was the only description of punishment resorted to , and it fell frequently on the same individual . The magistrates , however , seemed to think tbat all these matters were of no consequence ; they retained

      the gaoler hut dismissed the chaplain . If they thought the chaplain an improper person , why had they given him all those testimonials when applying for tho chaplaincy of the Pentonville prison , iu July 1842 , the magistrates spoke of tbe assidious manner in which be bad performed bis duties as chaplain—of his upright and moral character as a clergyman and a Christian , although iu their report to tho Secretary of Stnte they said he w : s not entitled to their confidence , and bad not been so for the last three yoars . The gaoler , tho surgeon , the schoolmaster , the task-roaster , and tbe matron all added their testimony to thu exemplary conduct of the chaplain , as would bo seen by the following documents . —

      " Knutsford House of Correction Committee-room , July 26 , 18 V 2 . " We , the undersigned magistrates , constituting the Raol committee of the House of Correction , K- utsford , in the county of Chester , and others , have great satisfaction iu bearing our testimony to the z-al , assiduity , and faithfulness with which the K ; v . W . R . Browne , M . A ., our chaplain , has performed hia onerous duties during two years and a half , and also to his upright aud moral character , as a clergyman aud a Christian . ( Signed ) " Egerton Leip . h , Hyde Jao . Clark , L . P . Townabend , ( i . Wi . brahani , E J . Loyd , J . H . Harper , Jus . F . France , Rjbt . Hollingworth , John Howard , Chairman , Harry Mainwaring , "

      " The Rev . W . Browne has held the situation of chaplain to the House of Correction here , for near three years ; and having had , during that perio * 1 , almost daily communication with him , I have gr . it pleasure in bearing testimony to the zaal and assiouUy with which he h ; is discharged the duties of bis cfilviu . He has shown himself sincerely anxious for the moral improvement of the prisoners , and has spared uo pains to accomplish his object . ( Signed ) ' Richard Dean , " Surgeon to the Hiiuiu of Correction , " Knutsford , Cheshire . " July 28 , 1842 . " " House of ^ riectio-n , Knutsford , July 2 S , 1842 .

      " TheRev . W . Browne having officiated as chaplain here now two and a half yt-irs , and having been iu daily communication , in my official capacity , with him for that period , I beg to add my testimony , along with several magistrates wh » have signed a testimonial in his favour , to tbe efficient manner in which he has discharged bi . s duties , nnd the active zjal displayed by him to make himself useful in bis ministerial vocation . His private character will bear strict investigation . ( Signed ) " Gf-O . Burgess , Governor . "

      Thomas Hayes , schoolmaster ami clt rk , says , " The chaplain has been very attentivo to the boys , both as to religion and other matters . H ^ teaches them bimself . He is tbe firet chaplain vcho -I : a * < 1 one so ; always cxaminta tbe boyB as io the chapter that has been read ; teaches them spellmi ? ; lectures daily . Chaplain has always strov » v « ry much to do q . > od by lectures . Chaplain catechises the boys regularly on a Saturday , ¦ when they repeat the collect . Thuit ^ as never done before Mr . Browne ' s titno . Hu has < : me his duty to the boya , you may depend upon it . ' "

      Greavts , task-master , s . ijs , "C i ** iphtn never neglected his duty , he has seen him tsku prisoners to his room repeatedly . He never heard a complaint of the chaplain at the hospital . Hospital m .-n attend chapel lectures every day after prayers . He iGraves ) has tcun much edified by these lectures . Hu explains tbe Scripture in a clear and sensible way , bo as the humblest capacity may understand . . TVtsver ht . ird a prisoner complain of chaplain ' s neglect . Constantly tnoro or less , chaplain takes prisoners tu his privuto room . This has been his usual habit . Has taken thiiu particularly before the nacrament . ' *

      Mrs . Gaskell , matron , says , " The chaplain has been very attentive . The women never wtru much instructed bofora hia time . She always requires tho chaplain when prisonersare ill . He has alwayi attended imraeaiattuy . Always has prayed with prisoners whtu requested by them . She ( the matron * had accMTijt * " * n : e r ' s order . The chaplain ' s conversation with prisoners whrn sick , rel'gious , and good . She bas always attended during theie conversations . Chaplain has always ha <\ cuaversntion with the prisoners previous t < i their taking the sacrament "

      Mr . 13 rowu mU'hfc , indeed , be well proud of forfeiting the ct > iitiik :: cef / f such magistrates ,: Tnty however , had ma . il >* «;> their mhiUs six weeks before to d . smirs thn clt'iptai : ) , and they ' . id not condesccirJ to art-no tbe in : ur > -r with those who dof ' onded h \< i : ** : pres " -, Mr . G . Wilbraham , Mr . E . Stanley , and Mr . Davenport . One of the Magistrates askurl , " Is this ? ^ aol to bo governed by the Secretary of State or the magistrates of thp county ?"—( hear , hear ) . The S ; oretary of Statfi wrote to the visiting justices , "Jiiin : his regret , that the governor of ihe gaol should haw been considered fit to ba contiuued in his place , and expressing an opinion that tho conduct he had followed should have led to hi ; immediate dismissal . That letter , ho thought , reliectcd the grea ' est credit

      on the Rifht Honourable Baronet—( hear , hear . ) It was a bold and true statement of the case—a b *> l < i and true censure on those for whom ho mic ; hfc be supposed to have had some predilection . Tho Right Honourable Baronet had proved that be was above political feeling on thi- important ; occasion , and had passed a censure oa the mu , * , \ .-. ' . r . ( tcg , to vvliieh he was satisfied the whole jnib '' . « •/¦ onId respond . But now that tho Secretary of Sia . ? had clone his duty , he maintained th&iit w * s for l ' u ; ruinent to do theirs . It was impossible that th > question could stop where it was . The respons ; b \ li » . \ , saiii t ! >;* High * . Honourable Baronet , lay on vh- »• i , 'i = tra' < -, but ho ( Mr . T . Duncombe ) maintain ^ : - . ! ;; u " , it . lay on i ' uriiiineat . Ho did not think tho Ritjut How Baronet could

      carry the matter further tnau he : uu done . He might certainly have cancelled tho Cv-mmLsioti , aud remodelled it ; but that itciiIJ lay a responsibility on the Right Hon . Bara-ie ' , which no mau had a right to impose . It was how for i' rl-am ^ it to interfere . He did not think thoy ha > . ydi probed to the bottom the iniquities and corrupti ^ :.- * of this £ < aol ; be believed that still greater c .- ^ rud than appeared on the face of the document , and f r this rea&ou he asked for a committee . He was , * r < psred to provr ; that within these few days , Bnr % «¦> , the gaoler , had collected some of the prison ofilct ?••< , and teJd them that the magistrates were determiui . u to stand ao mere of this nonsense , and that if any of thu officers

      were found divulging anything tha * passed in the prison , they would be immediately dismissed . This was lately made by this man , who possessed tho confidence of the mojority of the Cheshire angistrates . It ought not to be forgotten that from 2 , 000 to 3 , 000 individuals passed annually through this gaol , and therefore the administration was of torn _ ¦ importance If nothing further were to be divul ^ td respecting it , tbe inspectors of prisons would ueyei bo ablo to arrive at the truth . If the magistrates doubted tho accuracy of the inspector ' s report ia th t > instance , and thought he had misled the Secretary of State , that was an additional reason for gr » tivii ; g thu committee . But , at all events , he thought that Parliament would see the necessity of strengthening the hands

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      '' *¦* - /*; z \ 3 u < r * of the Secretary of State , and graniin » ' ne * powers for the regulation of a system so re ¦< i of juaticeand humanity , as had prevailed with ; v ¦ *) 39 to this prison . The Honourable Member ci >» ,:,,., ed by moving the following resolution : — "Thae k *\ p . poaring to this House that the Secretary of S ' > for the Home Department , after inquiry made under hi 3 authority into certain circumstances connected with the discipline and management of the Knatsford House of Correction , ia

      the county of Chester , has thought it ri .: Vs to advise that the governor of the said House o . Correction should be removed , and it also ap >> c : ; - iug that the magistrates , in sessions assembled , have , after an alleged careful examination , deemed the charges referred to them by the Secretary of State , with one exception , not of much importance , nor such as to deprive the governor of the confidence opposed in him , and which , as theyallege , hi * £ ¦ - ; . •• ral good conduct , and the discipline ho kadmaii . ' 3 i « ed * i appeared to deserve ; and , therefore , that sutn governor , contrary to tho recommendation of the Secretary of State , has been continued in hi = -M" * I and it berag alleged by the Rev . William B r .,-.-. ne in hfs petition , presented to this House , that Is seb beendtrimtssed by the magistrates , after giving evidence against the governor before the inspec : *> r of prisonp , upon the examination instituted by c ich

      inspector , under the authority of the Secre . 'a-y of State ; and thi 3 House , considering that the £ r ¦¦ . ad proper management of tho said gaol must bs »> ¦ . ; aportanca to the public , and that the samemun :., ; st materi&l ' y depend upon the character aud c :.. * , at of the governor thereof , and upon due prof v ,- . on boiag afforded to pers ^ is -who may ftota tii .-. to time be called upon to giva evidence b < pfor-j in . nspector of prison > la respect thereof : it is rc--c j J , that' a select committeo be appointed , to inquiry uito the conduct and tna / Tiageoient of the said Ho ¦• . * ¦¦ <> C Correction , in respect to the matters referred to iu ; he report of the magiotratos , and also into the cm uoastafjces connected with the dismissal of tL . 11 .-v . William Browne , tho late chaplain of tL . -aid House cf Correction ; the said committee to - _; . rt the evidence taken , and their opiaion thereon , : . 10 House . "

      Mr . W . O . Stais-lky seconded the motion . Mr . Tatton Eg erton as one of the Cheshire Magistrates implicated , denied that the governor o " he prison po £ ssed his confidence , and expre ^ c - his regret at tiiTcourse which they had adopted . I " ¦ at even admitting that they had erred in judin . nt , misled by feeliugs of attachment to an (! j :., d faithful servant , Btill a body of thirty-four ^ r il .-wu residing ia and well acquainted with the ' -s > - ^ . ij , must be better judges of all the circumstaiv ^ = if ah the House . The chaplain had attributed hi- dismissal to politic ?*! motives , which was a libel on the magistrates , for a large poi-Hoa of those who concurred in it were liberal in their political principles , and he hai beea treated leniently , considering his conduct . He opposed the motion .

      Sir George / Strickland said investigation wa 3 absolutely necessary . Ho had defended the >> i ; r * j . t unpaid" in periods when they were not very pov-uarj but the allegations against the Governor of Knsitaford gaol were too svrioug to bj . passed over , seeing tho manner in which the magistrate- had screened him . Mr . Herbert Curteis was also convince . ; ? V-at theroshould be inquiry . His prejudices , as a im ^ istrate , had . been enlisted against the motion , b '** the speech of Mr . T . Duncombe had satisfied him tU *« a strong case had been made out , to which no i ; uffi ucut answer had been given .

      Sir J . ' Graham said that it was not his intentic : ; to eater at length into the question which the I ' imi . Member for Finsbury had that evening fciou « . hfc before the Houee . In the first place , it was his cutjr to acknowledge that the Hon . Member was fully justified in bringing that matter under the con ¦ ' : Jeration of the House . He must also compliment tha Hon . Member for the dispassionate manner in v . hiefr he had stated the case to the House . Hg ( Sir J . Graham ) would at once direct his attention t . the real point involved in the motion of the Hon . i ^ mber for a committee to ioquire into the conduct a ad management of the House of Correctioa . H-. < -oucurrodinwhat had fallen from the Hon . Ba- >; icfc

      the member for Preston . He thought wiii hat H 011 . Baronet that this question ought to be : refully sifted . If he ( Sir J . Grtiliarn ) considereu nafc any additional inquiry would bring to Hfiht anf . » w facts in connexion with this case—if he cou > be induced to believe that the investigation a . skt ;< : for by tht \ Hon . Member would be productive of goi- * l — he would not resist the motion for a commi ;< - * cf inquiry . It had been affirmed that tho Priiu ; Inspectors had no power to investigate . A 6 p cial inquiry had been made and was before the Lt * :-fl , He differed from the view which the Hontmab ' e Membor- for Chester had taken . He thn . / iib that tbe matter which had reference to the eha :. ' . iia had been quite settled . With reference to tha

      conduct of that gentleman he was not prcparrd to pronourtce an opinion . Ho had no knowleoV : ot the leading facts . The Hon . Member for Fin .- ^ ury complained that he ( Sir J . Graham ) had no' oid upon the table of the House all the reports ma ** .. ; by the Prison Inspectors . Under certain cirenmsi > . iees report * - * of this kind ought to be considered a- " . f a a confidential character . Communication also which were made between the Secretary of * -.: ate and the bench of magistrates should be view ! aa confidential . Uuder the particular circumsiav * . ¦ , 2 . of the case he ( Sir James Graham ) should have tb ^ -ig ' it that he had acted wisely if ho had refused p ' -b > - ! t . y to the letters to which allusion had been nir'le-Whilst on thiT subject , he was bound to grate -hut

      the most difficult p . irfc in the admistrati * tver of removal iu certain cases . He felt himself jusiiqod in stating , that the majority of the magistrate of the county of Chester were in favour of the guolcr

      remaining in oSif-o . Tho majority was overwhelming—lie did not say unanimous—but it was certainly overwhelming . The majority was corapoi < jd of , gentlemen entertaining the most ; opposite political opinions . Ho adopted tho opinion of the Hon . Member who had recently addressed the House , and regretted that any feeling of jealousy shujld have arisen in consequence of his ( Sir J . Grahaoa ' sj interference . He was unwilling to speak with , harshness of tho decision to which the magistrates had come respecting tfcc dismissal of the chapkfulie could not regard it as a judicious exercise of discretionary power . Having uaado tbis admission ha must say , that he could not , consent to the proposition of the Hon . Member for a committee . Ha wag

      strongly of opinion thw tha appointment o 2 tho different official personages connected with the gaols , as well aa the power of dismissal , .-hould be vested ia the hands of the magistracy . Without pledging the Government to any ultcrioc mensures he trusted the House would give the Secretary of State concurrent power of dismissal with tho magistrates . He again as .-erted , that judging fsora his past experience , ho was disposed to con&ij .-r 1 iui it would be conducive to the public good tb ?~ * k ? Secretary of State should have that power . 11 : was sorry t ;> detain tho House , but ho must again re ; ? .. « t , ' . hat he did not think there was any good groana tor inquiry . He , howover , was prepared to ad ^ i : that ; liio i ]< u * ition could not stand in its present posit , \<* n . lit * ud thmk that legislative interference wo ;/; -l La beiter thui the inquiry which tho Honourable . ' . i : m-

      bcr i ^ r rmsbury solicited . The magistracy rr ... isc have the power of appomtaientand dismissal . < 1 . " * jecfc to public opinion . lie was an advocate for retu . In-. iig ; the pew it in tbo local authorities ; but some c ;¦ . .. * . - _ •; wii . i neecsary . The Secretary of State shi-uid , ha thri'i ^ ut , have concurrentJurisdiction with thj L ; a-Ki « ira . tes . Inconclusioa Ua would strongly i . T , -. 1033 r > n the Hon . Gtjntlemaii the expediency of not It . v- is ' . g , this question to a division . If he did persist ii \ ,, uiti be clear / y his ( Sir J . Graham ' s ) daty to dividoagain *? t him ; but whether tuere was a division or not hu would promise that tbe matter should be carefdiy con . Md red by Her Majesty ' s Government , and ha uould further *> ay , that n ^ at present advised , us i- - a . s deposed in ihe course of the present session 10 y tfes = ome legislative remedy for ihe evils compiainea of . I Cheers . )

      Sir T . Wilde next adc ? ressed the House , bu * in cmui uue : ; ce of a severe cold the Hon . and LeaTi ; -: d Gemhman ' 3 tone was po low that it was utterly impossible to distiu , ; u ; ,-h hi , sentences in the gaik-ry . A .-5 far a j we could uad"rs ; ar ; d , he severely ceustax& the conduct of the gav ! - * r aud reproved the magistrates for not taking turlior notice of the abuses . If the Hou .-e did no ; in . orfore when such a case of neglect was presented to their notice , it was clear they would > iever interfei-: at all . He expresssd his iear , that had as the facts wero , the Housa did not f vea yet ktnw ali . As they stood these factg

      presented an overwhelming case , and unless tha Government would distinctly promfie to take tha case into their own hands , he thought the motion for tho committeo ought mo :-t decidedly to be granted . There was a precedent for such a proceeding in the case of a warden of tho Fleet Prison , who wrs charged some years back with gross misconduct , and whose ci ^ e waa BtrirstJy investigated by a committeo ot tho House . However , if the Government would take the subject up , then the Hon . Member for Finsbury might leave the matter in their hands , aud a division would be unnecessary .

      Ar . W . O . Stanley disapproved of the conduct of tr . u Cheshire Justices , bom in the retention of tha giolfcr and ia the'dismiss ! of the chaplain . Mr . JLegu said a few words in justification cf ilia mwiitrates for the dism ; :- ^! of the chaplain . Alter a few words frou Mr . Henley , who expressed an opinion that the whole aubj <; ct of prison discipline must shortly be revised , t Air . Duncombe replied , consenting to withdraw his motion .

      M W V Fboducers Of Tvea1th, And Ml Those Who Live By Industry Nv The Land.

      m W FBODUCERS OF TVEA 1 TH , AND ML THOSE WHO LIVE BY INDUSTRY nV THE LAND .

      Ctarttgi 3riruiitsntcf.

      Ctarttgi 3 rirUIItsntcf .

      Hsmpm'al ^Arltamrnt.

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      tm AND LEEDS GENERAL ADVERTISER ,.

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      T 01 ' 1 ZPlJ ! 9 - SATURDAY , MAY 27 , 1843 . "'" . ^ S ^^ r

  • Citation
    • Northern Star (1837-1852), May 27, 1843, page unpag, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct935/page/1/