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Imperial ^Sarliammt.
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Untitled Article
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Imperial ^Sarliammt.
Imperial ^ Sarliammt .
Untitled Article
pension ! of tbe ** 3 pensions ! granted by any minitter no * snrrivine ; and of them 19 were granted by Lord SidinoutSi more tiwtothirty-lhreeyean « ince ; » o tlmt ont of the total number of pemrion ? with respect to which ut ini u inter , h » First Lord of the Tremurv , ii-p ^ rstiTiBily responsible , vein find -, "ur-. " confined to 3 Q penuo ' n * grunted within the" last 30 yaa ™ , ont of the 3 Mit pensions ( cbeer «) . Tb * report o ( tlie committee of l&W distinctly stated , that in consequence of former urecdeuW and usages , fiiiiiSr settlement * r . f . T made , and nrrangetueuts of i--toiia kiudi entered into , that it would be absolute injustice t" interfere with ( hear , hour !) lie conteamed Chat no pewmisry snwup was likely to i * i-KbcKJ bj tl \ e fierntinv . Hut it injgHlie * aid , 'l want to : ; -s i- "'; ---i : i whether pensions liave ( urn ¦ ' [ . ¦ 'iii" i ¦ ¦ -- ¦;¦ . impure motives , and to - ' . ^'¦ liili s great principle by exposing abtiiBS . anil providing a security against their recarrenctf "' ( hear , hear !) - I presume vou are not prepared to condemn the net * of minister * now no more , und who are , therefore , unable to give mi account nf the ground * on which
Uiey gmnEiM tuose pensions ( criesol "oh , nhl" ) . presume , surely , that you will not do io without liuving an opportunity of ascertaining whut were thoto groumU ( cheers)—the gronndi upon which any particular pension was granted . Will yon now , in the year 1 B : )( , proceed to cast reflections on tho * e who , having Illiud the highest offices of the state , have now ix-i-i' long in their graved , rin ¦ 1 when the evidence which you neglected to ask for in IK 10 may no * , in contequence of vour forbearance , be destroyed for ever . ( Hear , hear , und load cheers ;) The Pension List now includes n period of nuarlj isiBnty yenr » . During tlint period of seventy yoHM there fiavu bean eleven Hritne Minister * of' tbia eouutrv immediately responsible for tho granting of these pensions . ' -Hie . ornce of the first Lord of the Treasury has been held since the date of the tirsl ueniisinbv lUe Dokeof Gtattou , Lord North , Lord Shi . Obiinie . Mr- Pitt , Lord Sidmontb , Lord ( irenville , Mr . Percent ) , l . iirci Liverpool , Mr . Canning , Irfifd Coderich , and thi- Duke of Wellington . Of these Huven Prims . " Ministers . reapuHfcible for the Civil List , three only now survive—Lord . % lmouch , cfci * Karl of Ilipon , * nd the Duke nf Wellington . Lord Sidmonths tenure ufofiice expired in 180 J , and thu * in respect of any pensions granted by him tliiri' - three years havp elapsed since the rime . I do nsk again , witli respect to the pensions granted by ministers now no more , will you , who i ) p the ye * r 1830 refused tu institute uu inquiry as In wie grounds upon which those pensions wero granted , riot with it view of saving the pcQ&onp , but with another virw , of condemning the grants mid eensnrinf- the ministors— -will yun take advnutuge of the Upso i'f seven years , w' ^ t yon take ads ' STH ; if « of your own ueglect , and proceed to the coiid ^ nuifllion , not of tha pensions , Wt of the memory of those , who are uownomore . and that bfcan ^ i' they cannot miv account for the grounds on which thoa ; pensions werejn-anltfd . ( Loud cheers . ) Bntiftliose ministur * wcro alive 1 should protest against tbejiistice uf trying the conduct of ministers of thirty years ago liy ttats cnlisel into ujwiHitiyn by jouraplies . ( Ixiud cheers . ) Hull ahould say tbat to ' lay down n'Killations in lS 3 i aa rogulaticiiu which onght ( o g ^ iveni grants of pennon ? grnntifd Under a uirTyrent state of law , atid under a diHercni siate of pnlilJ " fueljug , pensions which weri ; ^ rimttid in cnnforaiily with the "vie ^ rrt of public feeling * md with public
principle vritli respect to tiiesc grants , would lie manliest and tlitgrant iiijusticc . ( Lout ! clieerx- ) Georgt the IV . died in 1830 : it wits neft ? ssary in the course of the aiitiiDin of the year 183 U for the ( Sovemmeut of the day to propose n new arrangement of thi ? Citikl . ist . They did pi-opogn it ; and on tlieir re ? jinnsihil ( y submitted it to the consideration of Parliatnent . A motion was made for referring the Civil List to a Select Committee . The Govsmmeut thunght it their duty to resist that motion . The motion wjiS , "however , carriftd uy ft majority of 29 j and in uoneequence of that mflj ° nly the Members of tlic Goveriiiniait retired from uiiice . A new ( iovernment was ippointf d oil this very question of iIn- cuiiii . ii'rHiiii * u ! " iljt- jiL'tisii . !! lisLattd . ot course , uv ^ ry person was alive as Ui the conrse itliich the new ( lovernment wonld puryap . \ V ' ^ went out uf omreupoii thi * On cation . We prt ^ sled auainvtthe ajipointvinsitof the Sritct ConinrfWi'e , \ m \ a p ™ etful pnrty overburu unAand vu * directed to maVe the arrriHgemenw uI'flic Ci « l List . Lord Grey ojune into oflict 1 nd First Lorf of ihe Treasury , auil J . onl Althorp as Chnnca / lor of the . Kxchequer-Lord Althorp moved for hfSelcct Committee on the Ciril Lift , aud that Seki-t Cutninittee made their report upon thu su ^ jftt o ( penBtyiis . That very Comraint'p mi artioiiitecl 'by Lord Althorp , as Chuncelior of thp ^ Exchiru ^ ucrj w ^ s presided ox » r by him as chairarttli ; Ihe report-kms unlited by Lorfi . ¦ Uthorp , and wiis assentei to by the Committee 1 . la the report of the Committee , ao appointed hy il . f tMrpfiiuifiii wLieli « i « i ; ili ) -:. ! ut , it is slates ilL-iiuclly , "tli » ti ndvcrdiia UitHl ihe cirmu ^ UJiuta oi tasi ! tuai nniruwruu ruuei lu £
me , ronsiaenng U finances of ih& country would btftperived from such measure ! of retrenchment , and olio cmisiilerinfr tlint ftll invftri'dble ns ^ gi ? haij prevails , and had been ini'iuiuhly obsetvstt , of continuing tliese psnaons on the secession of the Sovereign , the Committee \ vvie of opinion thnt itiras not adviseable . that am " inquirv should he instituted into the ^ e iKmsionn with
b new xo their diimntimiaiice . How could the Right Honourable (^ ntlemiio refer to this reuort . Mid sn-y ilml it was an nutliority for tlie course he if as now pursuing' - ( Loud cheers . ) It must be recollected tbattliej turned out theJJukiof lVulliugton nnil Sir Robert Peel on this ( juestion ; that we vreresucceeded by anew Government , the mpmhers of which bad never glutted these pensionn , who had no interest in tiiet ? peiisions , but wliu had a directly opposite interest , if these m ^ n acted from grovelling leeling * , in exposuig these pensions aud putting discredit nn their prirtlecedsors . But what v . -4 s tile couriis which theytouk . Not only did tlieT present Ihe report to which I have alluded , bnt Lora Althorpe raine down to Parliameul mid said : — ¦* That hu knew those pensions were unpopular—he hnd a strong ' ppimon against the principle oljiranling them ; hut llist liitiing been grauted , justice required that they should nmr he maintained , however adverse In- might be to ftii- principSenn which , tliey WerS granted , or "whfttover interest the fii > verumcnt mit ; ht hsivr in pnEling an and to to them . " Tlie Uiglit Hon . fr ^ utleman—1 thunt him for it— -has nsked IOU 10 Suefitious referriitK 1 ° the voles of the Hon . Member ir Frame , and the Hon . Mftnbgr for Caituiiens . But I ham Mglitr authority ; 1 ma refer to one of Ihe hriglitt ! dt puge * in the live * of public inun—the jiiiBff wlimli tvainls tl \ e couseh I . ucti AUluiru took wifli respect to pensions . I do lut now mean to treat this quevliou « s one of policy ; of course on questions of policy public men mny diflvr ; but I now propose to treat it as a ( i"estioii wlictber the reviaoii of the pension list was in cunformity with justicp , und , tliereforp , with sound principles of dfinial policy . I nm not now referring to 1634 , but to Fehruirry , lS ^ l , before anv aminSeinent was mudtJ with respect to the pension list , when the question was as open as it would be noK ifttiecircumstances of
ISM hnd never occurred , and had not placed the question in a different situation . When ill 1 S 30 ft new settlement of the civil list Was necessary , nnd l ^ ird Althnr ]) httdlhe power of advising the Crown as to the com- ;* which he thought it fittiug to take with rospecLtopastpensious , whut did he advise r Lord Aliliurp snid , "I nilirat tlie Houw 1 ms a legal rigM to tnku away all those penaouft . " I gay so niso I jay that we have possitjly a legal right to take away ! hf-se pensions . But Lord Allhorp wenton to say , " These j ^ nsioJis certainly expired ivith fhc demise of the Crnwn ; bat though the Hoafle has a Wai right to discontinue their . ; 1 doubt whether tin ; House Iuik an equitable righl , for they have hitherto boot ) id . W 3 . ys gv ^ utM oit the auppnsiitinn thuLt « heo once obtained they were held , nnl mi-rely fer ihe liB of the Sovereign who granted them , but nlso dnriiij ; ( he fife of the party who Iiirid them . " ( Cheers . ) Tliis wbs thi ! l 3 Ug'i ! isc of Lord Althorp—iniiBuagt ! which gave very great dissatinl'action in lUEtnyofthosri wiio supported turn . Lord Althorp wiia ilien uhrcediri the situation in which the lit . Hem . Gentleman isiiow . This is the ca ^ e iin which I rely . I ndy upon this , that , if it wnsQot rifjhtin liSWI on nccofiit ol nn imarinble preceding ufagc to institute tliis iliquiry— if , Hccurding to the doctrine of this committee und [ Le principles of Lord Althorp , it whs unjust fo to inquire then , whatever inight be the question of policy , it wan neitherjnstuorfiurto institute that inquiry at present . Voit nn- youraeUes the parties who have fionRrined Ihess pensioners' assiirance in the continnHDte of lV-se grants . The Right ilon , (; inillemmi isMinsiilf Jin authority on this point , mid 1 beg to eay that
1 do niitijuote linn tor the purjiose ol proving a cuaujre of opinion , but to show that titose |> arties had , atleFisl . a right to espect that the- Right Honourable Ueiille .-tnnn would not he the nian to move for a committee to in quire into these pensions . But [ murit observu tlint Ibe poailiou of the pension in IKW is hy no tn > iMist . ! w esinw that it is . ulaced in now . It wai open o > revision in 1 HS 0 , but it is not so now : because in tlipyear ) 83 i an arnin | reinent wiis mndi . ' with the Crown , tu which the Right Hououmhlr ( Jentleman himself add l ^ ird Allhorp wc-re parties . The Right Honaurahle Gentleman w . iuld have been jnstificdin . 1830 ill making inquiry ; but ihe Crown ha * ue : e"J on the faith of I'urliiuuent , n « d hits conti-HHL-d these peiisions : so that it wns impossble , during the lile of the late Kinp , iu any way tii iiit . 'i " thfjn . Tlie Itiglit Honoumbli' Genilt'innn siiid . "Von passed those acts with your eyea open , and why should tin ! Huiise of Commous now ue eallpd upon , at the suggestion of the llotiouriible Member for Colchester , to ^ o into-die most ft nitlcss , the most painful , and , I will say , into the most distrusting inquiry . ' ( ChetfrK from both sides ) Nciw if tli-. t inquin ' , stud tlie Hononrsbir Baroin 1 ! . -woslil linvrbeun pRinml in ] B 3 i , would \ l not bp- equally so uow ? If it were dis £ u ? tii ! g then shall we be l > etr . ije ( t into it now ? ( cheers . ) The Honourable Bnron . 't then contmned to read the ettruet : — " 1 do not quite nnderitand that , cheer from Honourable Gimrlemen opyoriti 1 . Undoubtedly , such an inquin ' iinbi necessarily be pwiidul inid disjzustmp to the guud fciliug of ill tuaukiud . "—( Cheating from the
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oppoidtion . ) After thii declantliun , ] auk , would not ihe p-irtie * whoie cutei aie tliuo ipolten of li ^ ie a right t > - odeulate whoever might prfipi > ae tiach an inquiry , thnt the Chancellor of ( he Kxithequer , » t least , wonld not be found to uinctiou it . —( Oppo » i ^ on ch » rs ?) If one of there « rere told that inch an inqnirT wer * tlirenteneil he irould say , 'I have looked it tha apcecli of Lord Altlioi ? ¦ ' ! ' ' ¦ to that of the Secrclnry br Ihe Trea .-iurr . who is now the Chancellor of the Exchequer , und I find that both of them have dednrcd tBeintelvei iiguinit > ucli s proceediug , winch the iattcrhns uvon characU'riwd us fruitk'a" and dugmtinn , und . looking at these declarations , 1 haven perfect i ^ curity , n * pert'et a tecurit y •* can he gruunded uuan vk « chutBtton . mtd pledget of public men ( opposition oheers , ) thin the family U'ttlemenU mid pecuniary nrran ^ vmunti into which 1 have eutered , dpunndiuy niiou these parments , will not be diitnrbed . " —Loud chetr ^ O After reading . everal sther estracis _ from the former incechen , if Lord Althorp , Mr . Spring Rice , and the Chancellor of the Exchequer , in reprobation of Hny onquiry into the Pension I i-i . The Moa . Burundi cnntludpd by inoi-ing the following n'aoluti'Ui u an » meiidmeni : —
"That upuO the ectession of hu late Maje » ly King W'illiiiin tlw Fourth , n ii- ! ei-i cummtttii : Wiu appointed in 1831 , on the motion of 1 -i-r-i , Miii .. ' }> . tUen Chancellor of the Kxrhi'qucr , to talc ? ititu consideration the 14 CIMU 11 I- pre * eiiLed by order uf hit M !¦ .-jesty r-.-l : ¦ . ' . ! uj : to ihe ciril list . ** Thai the committee » o appointed look ititfronaiderntioii , tngether with other classes of the civil list , tlmt of the jwiijiijijs , and . ifif-r ataling Unit ( hvy fell it to be their duty to explain to tfie House fully ihe case in reBpect to pensions , mad ^ in their -. " ¦ ' : the following , among other observation * : — ' Atthesnroirime it would be a harsh mi-nsurB to overlook op flie present occmion that wliieh h «» heen tlie uniform uiia £ « on vX \ fofmet tetdemeHts * i ( the civil U « t . l * ta-¦ ions on Ihe riril lixt hate always hitherto been roiiaiderBd to he granted for lifci itnd in facl no inrtHuce has occurred wherein a pi-usion on the civil list granter ! by one uovereigu luts been discontinued on tJi * ttccesnon at bis meeetnor . Jt is more [ ban nnihable , thereiiire , th » t parties relying on an ndlu-rence to nn invarinble . custom , have made family settlements and pfcuniary KrrnngeineOUof various kinds , with fill of whiob hifi Majesty muat necessarily interfere , should ( lie uoutiuuiuice uf these pensions , for die lirst time , on hii agecasion m tile liirotie be rtfused . Adverting to « 11 the oirunmataace * of the ciEsc , considering that no miiU'rialntfhef oj . lhefininiors of Llie country cuulit be dwrivtd from the most rigid measures of retrenchment applied to the pelifiiou list ; that in many eases severe distress , in some , actual injustice , would arise io individuals from tbe general discontinuance of pensions ; Tiiiit tuch dii ^ ontiiiujuire on the occasion of ! ds SfajeBty ' s accessinii would he a departure iron ; an BSHpe invariably ubiervcd oil the accession of Ms Majesty's predecessors , your committee do not think : it advisable to withdraw from the Crown thosw funds which nniy euablw thu Crown , if it shall so think fit , to continue the punsiotion the civil liEt of bis Ufc Ma |«* ty . These Glifcerrauuns , however , do not apply tu the grant of futnTe pinions on the civil list ; if granted willi a ditftinr . l notice hi iheiiidividuiils recurving them tlint . they lire noloiiiy [ egallv tenninn . ble on tbe demise of the sovereign hv whom they have been ( panted , but thit they am liable to be revised or discontinued on tlie scttletDetit of it new civil ii « t , there enn be no obstacle to tliu reconsideratiou at that time of the then exiifting pension list . '
"The committee proceeded to recommend thnt the pension lists of England , Scotland , and Ireland should li « consolidated into one alphabetical list ; thnt pensions to the amount uf £ 7 i > , WI ) , on tin- first pun uf thi * lint , should be plauud on the civil list , nnd the remniudiir charged to the eons < didated ftuid . •¦ That bis AlHJpsty ' s Covi-rnineiit [ iroposed , and Parliamentsaiictionud , men * urcs with res ] iecllo the civil lirit ponsiocis , founded upon the repi » rL of tlift committee , » nd in precise conuiriuil . y witi tliem , making provision to enable the Cruwn , if it shouM so think lit , to CTintinue the whole of thepenslono oil the ciiil liss of King George the Fourth . "That at , a subsequent period , the Honsp of Commons passwd resnlodona iu respect to t ! i * gmiit ofillfutuic yBUsiuns by theCwwu , etprussiug a . u opinion that they ought to he coutined to tbe rowLird of eiiil service , or lilerary distinrtiuu , or upecial serrif * to the Crown . ¦ Tbat it to tnis inai
• appears nonae me course advisedly taken On the acceaMion of his late Maji ;» ty , by ( lie Crown and Parliament , was ealcuhtted to justify incranned conlidenCB ill the coiitinuanee of the then esisiini ; pensions , and in the permanence of ¦ fntnily sHttiuinonts and arrangements of various kinds . ' made by parties ' relying on the ituherence tu invariable custom , ' and tliat whatever harshuiiis or injustice there might haw been , on the acce ^ diEiit uf his Into MajHsty . in overlooking on that iHXaeimi the uniform preceding usagf , would on the prusout iim ^ ision be grently sggravaWd , not only 1 > y tlm lapse of time , and too intervention of » whole r ^ ign , liut liy tin ; direct sanction given in IS 3 i lij ihc Crown and I ' nflimiieot to an ' espectalion that the principles then acted on , so far if upplkaMe to the then esistiug ponsionu , wonld-be thereafter adhered to .
' That , under these circum . itaiice « , it is the opinioti of Ihia house , that regulations having been established in respect to the griiut u flu tare penai 01187 . and ptecautioufi having been , tukvu in cunptfct to fa ? reiisai or disciuiritll V ince ° * them on new settlemencs of tbe civil list , it ia advisable now to inuke Kticli ] iroWsioD as aUall enable the Crown , if it shall mi think tit , to coutinue those pensions which were tonliuned by the crown on the accession of Ids late Majesty .-or which were granted liy hip Majesty . " jVfte-r ppreches ( rom Lord Ullioi , Mr . Ward , Mr , H'ilhrahani . Mr- l'luinptre , Mr . I ' eitdarves , Colonel Sibtborpe , Hir Charles Douglas , Mr . Handler , Mr . Miluaa . Lord Kbrington . and Sir Edwurd Suuilen , Mr . p . W . HAitVKV congratulatedGovariuiiL'iit forhitrine at leiifith emaiici [ iiiuii tbenuelves fronlthe thraldom on this subject , under which they frail hitherto laboured . Uerujoicad inrtremely thn ! they did now , and tout-in » most intelligible and elliciwa manner , what liu belinved they 11111 st deeply ragret lliej \ iad not done at a , fornnir perind . —( Hear . ) 1 ^ - their conduct nt n former period they tuul furniahed n ^ umenls to their opponents n . 1 present ; for , he would ask , but for Lord Althorp s letter—bul for Lord Altliorp ' s resolution—but for die report of the former Committees declaring tlmt there should be uni » quii 7—where would thit Right Hon . Baronet , ihe Member for Tauworth hove been that night ? —( Hear , lieitt . ) ' 1 'bote diitumuutSi the letter of l ^ jrd Althorp , ihe resolutions of l * rd Althurp , the reporcof tbe coiumiitee , had lit-e" the entire text of his speech . Ho ( Mr . Harvey ) coufL ^ sud thni he had rather lagged Whind iu theilehati ^ , in the hope that otier Hon . Members might startup , like the Hon . Member for Middlesex , and defend their near relations from the imputation of hoviiis ''^ their pensions improperly bestowed npoii them . ; Many Hon . Members liiid . near relations on that lisi ; for there were many who had Dot been on it no long tlisl all thuir fauu'lv connections were esiinct . There were soiofwhoaad been pbiced on the lifit within the last seven or eight years , whose minds most alii I he fresh with , gratitude" for tlie rewards which they hod received in return for lliuir services . U'hy did
not the friends of thosp persons stHnd forward iu tW snnB waj llit IlOii . Mcuibei { 01 MiiMi-ittx \ ni done ' : —( Cheeri , and hear , hear : ) fl ' ns it thn they would not take , an unfair adx'autage of tbos ^ hisi ) fortunate individuals who bud not the benefit of powerful connections ; and iis they meant t < i vjiW a-jainst die comnuttee they would vote in _ becoomifi tilence ?—( Hear , heiir , andn laugh . ) Butitap | ieac '' u that Hon . Members could nut Tjenr the indignity tliat per ^ oiik o ( hiuji blood , connected with tho first JamiEes of the nounUy , shuuld be exposed by haling thBirclaims optn to n committee of the lloBse u [ Commons . WflHilto he euduird , thev said , thai the feelings of Honourable and Higbc Tlouourabli ) persons of eighty yeara of age were to be thus oatrsgeJ ? All « yiEpathy with Such persons wes , it seemed , fair and proper , but not so that sympnthy which melts at the woen and wrongi ; of the poor . Oh ! pity for ill 1 ? wretched and ( h * miterabk' 13 an ignoble —( Load cries of "No , no , " nnd cheurui which prevented us from hearing the conclmion of the sentence . ) He ( Mr .-Harvey ) was now aniiouito come to thnt iipeech which bad bveii cliaraclerised fij the alpha and omega of ihe dehnte , aa liaviua comprehended , nay , exhausted , Uvery thing that could bo said on the subject . He willingly admitted lUatvlre lUgut Hon . Bvuonel Ii 3 d wfttded ivimieM of every argument both for a . tid agamst himsH | , _ distorting and niis-stating them witn an LFigenniE ) that was incapable of imitation . If the Hieht Hon . Baronul&ad made that speech in a court 01 law , any experienced critii : who had listened tu him would have exclaimed , "Tbero ' n the ablest matt I ever heard , with thi ! worst caiinu J ever knew . '"—[ A laugh . ) After dwelling oil Lord Althorp * letter , and nn Lord Altliorp ' s resolutions , tlm liighi Hon . Unronet proceeded to dwell on what he stilted to be tbe fact , iliiil UlCSa pi-usiutis vrerv [ Djtde the subjeats of family settlemuutsthings which h . ( Mr . Harvey ) begpetl to observe were very different from poor-law settlement * The Iti ^ ht lion , ( ientlurauu who mude the mutiim hadaesTted thut illU was not it vulgar question of [ fecuninrj- < ji ! ciii ; itk > u , but il » ii ii » us a eoet&ia < S moral profit , aye , of eternal justice , of tun ( . justice which surrounds thetliruue ofhuaveu , ond "Which seea with equal eye , 11 a Hod of all .
A hero periflU , ur a spamiw rail . —( Loud clieers . ) Unt it was maiiiulined , on the other side , tliat tin ' coiintij would » iew witli wary different fceliu ^ s the dnprivatioiii of the . persona on tlie' 1 'ciisiou List o ( i \ itii inemnpa , aasJ tlie ieuiivMi « n uf aSoftsuoEes granted under tin- old poor l « ws to jiersous who hud spent all iheir lives in hard livlinur . ( Nos no . ) go it had been stah--d , Tlie House liai been h *\ lvA if there was anyjH 5 tcorapariiionbet *' i . i"n thiEVnipmhy excited f » r the persons whose names were on the I ' eusion tint , and tlie sympathy uiciied for merely the aged widows of the pour , and the decrrpid labourers botue down bj toil ratber than bj : ngL—
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( for there would be found no paup « r in the country whose claim went back im ikr u the jear lTf > 4 )~ worn down by heaiy labour , by pnvntioui , by expoaure to «^< soue , and by all other hurdsUipi of which the poorer c ! a *» es were the heirs . —( Hear , hear . ) Ohfiilie and hearllesi is tbe distinction!—^ Chpen . ) Are _ jou , who invi'e the poor tu the teni-: ¦! ' ¦! of the living God , to find comJbrtn for their mrriiwii . in th
and from weeV to week , posted npon your church door * , the object of the inogt searching scrutiny , for the pnrpojeof ascertaining whether by some miserable contrivance they muy not be made to nuuTitaiu themselves , or be fixed for life upon the support of relative ^ whoso condition , perhaps , 1 * slightly niperior 10 their own ? { Cheers . } But then wt : are totd that uzider the righteous decree of eternal justice , there is a distinction between the nrtinuial forms of Eociety and the bumble and despised hut motrt nsefnl class . / Cheers . ) Let the honourable eentleinen opposite , whose delicacv is so refined , hod comfort in the assurance that no iivdiviilunl wimae seiitiiimiile cciotide vnlfa ray c ™ n cjid be guilty of actme wiih an iron heart towards nny of the person * whose names are upim thi ^ list of ] ioi : fiinns . The very imputation lhat we bring against those who lave scuid with nnfeelitig teverity towards th ,-poor will be found to be tbe protection of deserving merit ; and unless yon are prepared 10 Bay tlint the persons whow namt'it are placed upon thii bit—that the relatives of many of tile lion . Gentlemen opposite , are ruhamed and afnud to uadfi ^ o the ordeal to wliich they are to be nubjected — -unless Honourable lienllenien are prepared to * ay thiit , I would ask , can any thing be more severe , can any thing be more cruel , than the course they tropose topursne in denying this inquiry- [ Hear . } c it not it fact that there are peKOns , "r hoii ! names are upon this list , who have for their relatives persons prvnn of their heraldic Varings , proud of ( heir ¦ uidenL families , and of their extenave and almost boundless tiosse ^ Hions ? Do you not find persons of this description upon the list ? And is it not a matter of Jeep shame and deep regret that those who cannot fcvlp it , that persona who have the means of doing so , do not inTerfere to rescue Ihtur honourable ¦ iu-1 ri u hl honourable rulutives from thu imputariaus whwli at « ivaf . usm ™ tbsta in cQBWsjaenoe ol iv . ivma their uame ^ i appearing upon this list . —( Clieera . ) If I were upon Ihe committee , I hive uo difficulty in stating to ttie . House tlin course I should takS . —
( Hear , hear . ) And nere , without mrjulgii ^ mlthe slightest suspicion as to the course which ( he Chancellor of the Kxcheqner proposes to pmsuB , I intist he allowed to s : ty that I do not mihsiiriln- to ' lhe umitstioii which ne intimates , i gather from Lj-h that he will place thn onus of e * Uiblishing lh- )* uajiropriety of eonteaJnd flidms , not upon die pjrty vhu urges t ! : t .- claim , hut u (« so the piirry who challenges it . If that be so , it appears tfi use that £ would be better if we hail no committeE ? at all . — I think the parties ought to be invited , or rather required , in terms , of iwurie , as ddliciite and renpectul as possible , to stale the grounds upon which they ( yet their claims to be reinstated upon itut punsion list . —( Hfar , bear , hear . ) Let the reijuose lie deivemj 1 by pr ivate hand , or by some livened attend jiut of the court . Uo it with all thir respect , all the deference , to which these high personae < a are entitled ; but call npon th- ™ in some -way or other t » state the grounds on wliifth thii grant van made originiilly , whether it was grouted to tlium individually , i < jt ffrm ^ as re . nd'i ^ d , and if >^ J , request tUeav to specify its nature . —( Hear , hear . ) And if the iraiita have been made for serviced not rendered by . hemselves , but by BOfne near relative , surely there * not bo much unfrutefu ! oblivion as to prevent liein from culling to mind thone ancestral virtues to which t ! tt ! V are mdehti'd for their pressut pay . — Hear , and chfitrs . ) And if it should happen that iome individuals wore placed upon th >; list in past imes so 3 i ? ly and exclusively upon the grouim of charity—if it should he fuiini ! that the circnni 3 tinceij
which justified ihe origiiiiil grant , unfurl 111 lately for the individual , still continue—and if it should further appear that tha grantee has uoLhin ^ else whereupon to subasc—has no uear rfilutive . uu lather , nu mother > f title and auiuence— -no brotiter * , oo sisterd rolling in 'vuaJth , boastful of their titles ftnd proud of Iheir josseswoni . —if he should appear to ne « jkj nt ( he le ? erted it ( jr . ankinii , iwamflv knowmg hi- origin , disincliufd to say what he believes of ii , having no connesiimi thnt can " o « called legitimab !—( liiughter ) —if iiHu the list tliere be fonnj niiy nnfi > rtunnte war j /; if n ^' " this " , {¦ : . though (¦ i 1 . : 1 " iiinv be - > ::- ' ( Sn _ , tn «¦ ¦ ' ¦ ' i . ' ' f ^ f ^ 1 ° V ^) l tllO ^ jfflat to cv c * j £ andcheer . } -,, ! J , for ra *? lP 98 . J' .. . .- j Uieir sorrows , and coodiiue : hem upon tte jicusion lUt . "—( Loud cheers . J— - When 1 see | 1 il > Noble Lord { l-ordStanley ) opposite , wbo ii ¦ . a riulu to he proud of his titly and property , apparently sneering at these suggestions , I am a ittle surprised that lie has uot called together men iie himself for the purpose of looltiug over this list , tnd of pruviding a frnid&oin Lh ^ ir i'wii vast resources iM i 1
nr the support Una "i ! 'i" > iWP '"""> i '" " " - '¦—' ¦ .-. i'r- -....-riti ., i . tJM ' gir- ^ fi' tell the Nobk- Lord , ihiit bereditarjvsnee » . -a « ijtq ( , natural ei-ijr-Tui Vir '"'"'"' n > UfMj '' lj | Hliil ^ Jlt . i : ' Ii 11 L > -ver ¦ i n privnce-lHi' -ui'irri tinm 1 r Jjft'prii < n » m poiatnf rank itnd fortune , we ar « allei [ uuls Jirrt * lisrepivsciiuitiies ir f -the jitople . -niljfiiws . ) MoteavathJU j , Noble iord will alloW ™ e to ti ; H _ liij ^_^ iai » LSVrn are esamjjles , tltuugl ^ ol ' a luwly ^ TuJ . ajid . tunongst : » < d& $ TO 8 ei ] dfttfr , -flliitli it vmvld be ^ odiii ; reiiiiforbiTB to-HBitotfen- ( C ! ieeis . ) An ; tlii'co |( oujinds of every khid-=-iTadi-i « -fiu ! d > .. wd « ws' fanje , funds of every variety—to aid and support mankind from the cradle to tbe tomb , all of which have their rise and ovru their contiiiuaiiiie to the honourable and independent spirit wbitiiiuctna'i'stJiehiiniolHrdriifsBE . audrtcJew ituim disdjunful of deriving ansistaute from nnyotlier . ii ^ ii thsrown resourcejf —( lj > ndcheers . ) Hncenftc these fuuils Iwl'ii sauclUmrd and proWied by Act * of Parliament ? TUere nreupwardsuf 6 , < W 0 , pf them in tlie country- Ts iE not the object of your boasted 1 ' dor l . aw Amendment Act to foster aud encourage them ?—( Cheers . ) Allow me to tell the Nobln Lord tlmt bi'maylearusouir . 'thing-fmm i'the simple annals of the poor . "—( Ureat cheering . ) I was aliout to state , thnt in dissecti" » this list I can suppose , without knowing it , that there may be persons upon it whose merits jnstitied thij grant ; and thouirh their fortunes mijfhi lie great a the limit thnt they n-eeived tlia grant , and may b « greatly improved since , j-et it mav be liossible that their services were such us deserved some inark of Rnytil favour , surpassini :, iu their eatiiniitioji , the value of mere . poiTiids , shilling ? , mid pence . —[ Hsur , hear . ) If ftteretaauj suc ! i , I wimW CAnitimie flieiu opoii tlie Jistg ( Cheers- ) But then , I sly , lei these oasen —let these bright examples he plucked front Hie scenes of obloquy laid vice by which they are t « irroiinded . let them stand fonh in their original purity ,
recomluendad by tJie ctrcninslLinces wnicti jusaned the S raut . lit tin-time , and which DO ago nor you&Iuvre eeu a () l « to tarnish . —( Lund cheent . ) Spare , I say , sjian .- these suotless genis of purer rays- ^ Chefirs)—protect thmn hy inquiry . —( Hear , haar . ) Aia you afraid , whru the report of the committee shall be made , thut the oia . < . s of tlie people , ond especiall y the despised poor , will fail to reciipiise those cises of real merit which at wide intervals may be found upon the list ? Do tint deceive yourselves—do not misunderstand the poor of England : they wonhl lie the ( mil to denounce liny act of an unjust or . , ; ,.: < , : : > ltid . — -I will presunie tliat there are l'i Seat U ] io ! i tlie list who itnve been nlnced ihere uot in conseqat-nce of any service immediately rendered by th « m—not in entujequence of any of tboseinfluences Lij which I will nolnowreter , liut solely for their ] loverly . If their poverty be not exaggerated hy ilieiu , I sho ' tjld not Ue tbi > individunl to apply 3 stern ruk to cast's of thiH kind . —{ Hear . J Althowb tliem \ vm "bieii Aft ^ bv wuB dvsire tft avmd wm j ^ ntY of the Poor Law Aia , 'udnient Act with this mqniry , wf . I . ^ , ninUiin that whatever weight or plausibility inislit have belonged In the argnments put IVirth bj the ' Right Hon . Bnrouet . yet they avail nothing , the Poor Ijiw overtlirows them all . —( I ienr , hear , tieor . ) r ' i > r what is thn princip le upon which the Poor Lair Act proceeds ; That no man nor woman shall b < allowed to . live upon the labours of other * , whoiii streniith or ye : irs enable them to labour for themseh ' es —( Choers)—or whose relation * are in n conairiontu estuiid to them [ luil support which nature requires , and kind and jirofiifr leelinga prompt . —
Lpou wuat pmicipie- snen . no cnose ^ enneiueu , wno are so anxious to maittuiin these peuaous— 1 nil ! not say who are benentied by tliem—npon what principle do you defend them ? f ntt you to apply ihusnme rule Io tbttW state [ lensiouers lliat you apply to your parochial pauptTs . —{ Cheers . ) And here letmtr iidieri to 11 remark made by iht- lUgbt Houonrnbltf Baronet ( Sir R . Pee ] . ) He aaya , " Looking Over thu list 1 5 ep tliBrtrTRivi ! heen elevon prime ministers , uieht of whom have tjeeh gathered . W . their linnl jfteoUBt , three of whom . inly remain ; will jrbu hA upon a person whn nnd thn antniW bo onuuity op , 1 pension snni' to Isiiu dtuiag thii life uC latlliS « f lK « ei ^ ht ministers vvbo have ceased to exist , U » explain mid . jratifV the circumstjuici's of tliat grnnt . " ( Hear , bear . ) JJnw , let ai calrj this analogy ;! Hitliv further . A ponr wom : iu , who has Iwen respiting two shilhuga a-wtuk , shall be iold br the jtu : irdians that she cull no longer hufo this relief , and is naked nnder wiiat dnjumstaneia it was oritrinnliy granted to her' ¦ Oh , ' saya she , "it was grunted to me twuuty
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y * a" ogo b y old Brown , the church warden—( Laughter and cheer *)—1 was at bii funeral fifteen j ean ¦ * " ¦ Lord love yon , do not deprive me of it . " ( Cheers . ) What do the gnardian * say to this ? "Y # U were very lock ) ' in having such a citirchwarden *< Mr . llrown ; tliere | i a diffcrentrace cow —( CrMt laughter and cheering)—we must hnvo some littl * couversjition with yini , mj good old huly ; yon b » k trong and hearty ; ean ' t you go out to ehBring !" T- '' Wh y , " « ajs she , « I do sometimes go ont a char-1115 , now and then 1 get rixurace iwlny , and once or twiee I haiegota shilling . "Don ' t yon think , il Jfoit were to go a little more about tlie paritb you could coatriva to get more ? ( Hoar , hear , and iheers . ) You must learn to be morn * ctito , to he woro induBtrious ; you miift seek to maintain yourself ; onr anxiety i * to infill into T <> ur mind tin moral , the hi g h tease of the eternal principles ol justice —( Loud and loitiE-continued cheering)— -but jou say that you are frequently afflicted , and that vou nnd it impossible , except when tbp weather « very fine , to go out clinring even for tlie few times you ijieak of . Have yun goi « -ioq or ad » oglitci : "
— 1 ea , tnank dud , jays ihe pt-or old rraature . - 1 have a son and a daughter . " "Are they your o if ¦ children ? " [ That is a question I shall uot put in the committee . ]—( Giv-at laughter and loudcheeriii « . ) "Are they your own ?'— "Lord love you , sir , whose do yon think they nre ? " " Well , then , whst i * yonrson ? " "Oh , heiaslnd , ftnd aj gosd a lad , though I Bsyit . as nuy mother eter hnd . " "And what does he earn ? " " Fifteen shillings a week . " "And wh « l deeayour dnughtar do ' : " " She ia married . " Hai . sha anr ebildnn ? " " Ves -, two pretty babei . " "And what ia her husband .- "' A joarneymmi caipenter . " And what does he earn : " " Why , whcnleia at full work , be earns n matter cf five nnd twenty "hillings a week . " " Thon , " eicltiims tlie indignant guardian , with wonder in iii « eye , and slern displeainre on til" brow , " why , niy gooiiwomau , bow can yon hare ihe impudence to tome here—( loud and continued cheering)—how can you have the impudence to come here , and aak fwr the continuance of tbe relief that old Brown gava you , when vou haie a bur and a girl , of whom von are so justly proud , the one enming lbs . a week , and thi ; other having a husband who get 26 < -a week ? ( iet awty , voahusiwj : "—( Great sheering . ) Such woald be the predicament of many of these pen-¦ ionera , if we were to inquire iiito the real c . ircumsbinccj of cheir ease . —( Loud cries of hear , hear- ) I will venture to say thnt there are muiiy ineu slid women upon this liit who , if iuked a : tri their relatives , * nd wlint was meant b y thpir baring artachml to th ^ ir name ^ thp appellation ^ of " ilonournhle " ami " kieht Honuiirnble , " uf " Lsdr . ' ¦* Dowager . "
und Uiune , " after recovering from lie first sitrprisa occasioned by the impudence of the inquiry , would tell you that they had n Iodr line of , unoestry , who had tlieir origin with the Plantageneti , and those who cilme over finm " Fairy Lanii ^ " —(( ireat laualiter and cheering . ) Ye& tlieT would toll you that there wa » no moiuirch , from Harold to tbe present day , with whom they were cot iu some way counseled . —( Cheers . ) Sonio of tliem would be so proud of their superior blood—of having in their veini none but thp best blnoii—that 1 very much dnubt whethE ? r thoy Would not hu digpon-d to carry theirpretensioni even forther tJian the nncieut and nob e house of Slauley . —(( Jenerni eh . 'oring . ) And if you inquire furthi'r—if 3-011 say to these iierioiu , "If juebbeyoar connections with living title ! , have they survived their tiLLetilancesr ' what ^ o uld Uetlw njply ! Aifuinitii ; the attitude , and speaking iu the tone of iujureii dignity , Ihey would say , ¦ ' No , sir , the Noble iMi-d ortheHabte 1 'nke , who it my relnSinu , js roJliug in wi ^ lth , baa the Inrcest eifF « es iu the county in whirh I dwell , enmniBiids the represcnturi . iu ( if that enmity , and has twn Conscnativej nt this tim » in the House of Commons . " —( Cheers . ) Are we , then , to he told by thorn ? who passed thi'Poor Law Ameiidiuent Act to improve the comlition nnd civ * a hi ( : h moral tone t'i the labouring community- * ( Cheers)—are We to be told that tha only exainpliJ yon are prepared to act to the humbler classy for whose welfare , moral and physical , you hare' Ito carefully , so wisely , so generously provided —( iheurs ) —are we to be told , I say , lhat the only essmpl « you are prepared to set th ^ in of you virtue and sincerity is to make _ them ( the poor and humble ) labour fur the miiiuteiiance and support of tliuue your relatives ami friends . — - ( Long .-Mid loud cheara . ) Lord STANLEY , in a ionjj speech , follnwedup Sir Robert Peel ' s course , : md knocked the former apet-chp . i of thu Ministers about tlieir ears moat uumerrifullv .
L . > T . iJOHN Rl'SSKLL and Mr . SPRING RICE replied , and then tin' House dividsd—For the motion -. 295 Against it 23 a Majority ——62 The nunouncemeut uf the mtijority Vfaj received with loud cheera . CONTBQVEBTEU ELECTIONS HILL . . Mr . C . BLJL 1 . ER mowd the commitment of this ¦ ill pr-i forma , lie intended , he saij , to move its recommitment on the Ttii February . Sir H . I'EEL declared thnt he had nut the least obectioii in the motion proposed . A 3 he found ( hat he bill waa not intended by the Hon . Moi'f r to have iny reference to pending ufection < , he should give it iis he ^ t consideration , und in 1 b « discussinn of it b ^ liould , us far as po . fible , endearonr to allay all > afty diffen-ncfS . Uy fur tlie greatest tusk t > iat would devolve njion them , be Ihonght , would be to prevent any admixture of party fueling in iU consideraiiou . ( Henr , hear . ) He assured tbe Home that no member could be morcaniious In amend the present tribnnflli for determining controverted elections Hum he whs . ( Henr , hoar !) The- House then wi'nl into committee . Sir It . I'KE'j ^ ish ^ MlUikmjf fcom the Hon . M . ( mb-Tier for I , iskuard . whether , in the iuncmlmentfl he intended to propose , he purposed ( o leave ont the last clause , by which it was declared that the bill was not toconie . into force ilurin ^ lln- present « ps ? non . Mr . C . lit : LLER replied , that ha had not thr slightest intention ofloavinjr that clause in the bill . Itsintertion in the bill wasainere misWk « froin » copyuf tt |> ill oflast session , lie felt considerable uniasinesa oa account of thatelanac , in cuusequence of the observationj made respecting it , aa some pjrties niieht thinl ; that hp could be guUty of tlie attempt to pWiliuni n trick , lie waa thoroughly convinced ihut hia bill , upon being agreed to , ought to he broufilit into ojujration immediately . Ho should propose no change nuw , as the bill wus only pnftn-niti m ctiminitlee , nor should hp propose any change without iflW'fiHg Hie opportunity for a full and Tsir discii . ciiion uponii . ( Hear !) The hill was then ordered tobe recemmittedon the 7 th of February , PESS 10 S UST . TbeCHAKCELLORof tbe EXCHEQUER stated that it woa his infention on Monday to propose thenames of the oiuimittee . to eouaider tne civil Use pensions . ( Hear , heart ) ci' » Tony or insane persons bill . Mr . BARNEBY , ut the snggBstJon of Lord Jobii Russell , coUMi ^ ted to withdraw ili ; - ? " ! l . which stood for a third resjliug , till ftftcr Die rerass . The Houkb ndjourayd lit a quarter to two .
HOUSE OF LORDS . MONDAY , Due 11 . The Barl of ALBKMAR 1 . E preae-ntud a petition irom the Mayor , Aldermen , and Burgesses ol Wisbeudi , for ihe n'peal of certain parts of the Muni .-ipnl Act . The Lord CHANCELLOR then delivered the following mtssaw from the Queen : — "VicTOitij IS ' eoin . * . —Her Majesty , tuking into consideration IIle provision alread y raadi-by law fur her beloved mothe ? r / rer R&y&l Higntiezs the Dnc ] ie& nf Kent , relies with confidence on the iwal and loyally of yotir Lordships , and yonr remliness to concur iu fiuch measures as her Royal Higbnesi ' s nink , station , aod proximity to tbe throne may seent to require . " Viscount MELBOURNE gave nolica that hi ! would on to-morrow call their Lordship ' s attention to tlus message . Lord BROUGHAM presented ^ petition from tha Mayor and Aliii-Tmon of Banbnry . in Oxfordshire , in Isvour of tie Manicipal Declaration Bill , and ? raving for the extension of its provisions . The ioolel ^ td Hien saiA that he Uad a petitiim to present from a very respectable and important bodycertain Baptist iviissiouaries , irbitioued in tin * Western part of the Island of J amaica . 'fhe prayei of it wn * that the apprentices in the Colonies shonlc he put upon the same fouling aa free citiztins in thi . other Colvuies in licrmuda , And Hun , and some o : thu smaller Islands , wliich had already tafceu thU course . He wonld nuly udd that it was ; greal cause of complaint herp and in the Colonies agnhisi certain individuals , but there , waa greater csuHe itil aaainst the Ltjnslatares of many of the Colonies foi having delayed to perform their part of » n implied if not an eipreased contract , on which man ) millions bad been , voted by this country , aud ereai iujutrtiee bad been thus done , bjf . them ou the other hanj toward lie GoveranSnt vrhich had recommended , nnd tne l-egislatnie -wiac-h had poised llii . measure of 1833 .
Thi ! Ihilie of CLEVELAND presented a petition from the Mayor and Corporation of Simflerl&nd . prayiiiR thut a clause might be inserled i" the ' Municii . il Act * Declaration Bill ( now u « der considefntion ill the other House ) extending to Jews the Baine lirivabVes as Quakers and Moravians . The Lord . CHANCELLOR informed Out Honsa lhat her Majesty h ; td by commission nndi'r the grea ^ eiil appointed tho Earl of Shaftesbury aud Lor : Kenmau , Speakers of this Honse , tn the nbience o ihe l * rd Chunn-llor . On the mution of the Lord Crikcellor , Ihe Ear of Radnor was added 10 the Committee on the lrouriBinmcul for Debt BilL The llouse then adjourned .
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HOUSE OF COMMONS . CoL SIBTHORPE said it tint reported in ih * GiaAf that he had introduced the name of the Nobli-Duke ' s son ( the Marquis of Gninby ) in the list of State Pensioners . Nuw he most distilled ; and onequivocally denied havmg introduced any n : in » whatever . MJSO-LOoJi WEiVKllS . Mr . FTEI . DEN preaentod a petition Horn tha hand-loom wesvem of Manchester , complaining of tile distre « iied state of the maiiufacturers in th » t district . The Hoa , Mumber lamented that nothing » d been doae for jhese infferin ( f iriJiridealrf . Tb ^ had spent Lbeir live * iu arduous labour , aud liM undergone all tbe horrors of wnot and lif-Klect . Yat tho Legislature had yet taken no step in their liphnlf . He concluded by moving that th * petition be read and printed . The petitim was then read and ordered to hi printed with Die vote * . Mr . M . PHILLIPS and Mr . HINDLEY supuortBd fhe prayer ol the netitiiin . Mr . FIELDRN moved that thepeiitiou be printed , an he inWudud to bring it under the consideration Of the House after the liulidays . The SPEAKER said h ' e could not , according to the Rules of tlic House , have it printed , nnlesB h « intended to form a motion upon it before the holidays . Mr . FIELDEN theo said he would move to have it tnten into consideration on thr 21 st inst . Mr . WAKl . EY presented ft petition from a C liUre near Wolverhamoton , in favour of Vote by allot
Mr . LEADER wished to ask the Secretary for tbe Home Department , whether Lord ( iosford was coming home—that is , whether he liad been recalled , or whether he hud resigned . He also wiehed to kuaw if a sucwaam liad been iipiwinted . Lord J . RUSSELL said that Lord Gosibrd had »! inw time since expressed a desire to resign , mid ordert had recently been sent stilting that his Lordaliip mi ^ ht wtuni home . The limerninent tot ' Canada had in Consequence devolved upon Sir Johil Co / borne , and no successor had a * yet been appointed to the situation vacant by tliu retail of Lord ilnsford . Mr . LEADER wished nlso to know whether a proclamation hod been issued against Ihe holding of lublie meeting ? Lord JOHN Rt'SSELL—Proclamations had been issued against tb >> infringement nf the l&vr in Keneral , hut not gainst tlie holding of public meetings . Mr . O'CONNEI . L had giren notipa of a bill in reference to controverted elections . Another lull 011 tho same subject had been introduced by another lion . Member ; tlwt bill liad been postponed until nftiir the holidays . L ' nder these ciruumstHuces , he would delay the brliyuiE ; in of his billon thii subject until the brst dny of tlie assembling of the house ttftcr the holidays- h was also his intention to bring in 1 bill in reference to the repeal "f municipal teste and dedaiavioiis inimeAiHtely nftet Viie holidays . An Hon . MJiM liER , on tlie opposition side of tlta House , whose name we conld nnt luarn . wished to iisk a question nf the Nuble Lord upposito , relative to soino extraordintiry proceedings which hint tnkeli place at Waterford . He wiihed !¦> know n-heflwr 11 ense had ocouitod of a violent riot—a riot which suspended the Prnteslaut serrice , and droie the dergjman from hii nnlpii—n riot at whicli ware preseut , as ho was intormud , some of the police—of wliich riot were cogni / . aist the authorities of tbe city of Wnterlord . tie winlied tu ask whether the Irish ( jOvurunieut had ordered an inquiry into the authorities aud the police on tbnt uccitsion .
Lord ilORPKTU replied , that in consequence of a memorial received from IVaterG'rd , slating the circumstances which had occurred , an answer Und beeii wr iiu-nby flie Under Secretary ofSUta nttliedeairu i > f the Lords Juwtiees , wliicli was to the following Sftect : —The Lords Justices staled that they had received the momoriij signed by the archdeacon and : ertuiu Protestant nlenjymen , nnd direcled th « nemorialista to be informed , that uuo time should by hist in instituting Bji iiniuirT int <> the uflair , that if the allegations set fiirlh . hy " the memorialists slionld \ n suVistautiiited , iWy toiiiUt n ? lj ta every jiosnihle . exertion being made by ( iovurnnvnt to bnn >( tlie persons concerned in the disgrncpful outrage to uatice ; andthBt Government would Hot neglect its duty in calling to an actonntthosewhosedulyic wns to preserve the pHace . — -tltenr . hear . ) It . tTHC 0 KMAC . Sir FRANCIS HUltDETT said , thatanolice htui hvni gilea , anfi pw . nff ftnm time \ " Viraa , ranne th « yenriy 34 . Itseiiiiivl tohini tobe of great iiujiortancu , nud therefore he gave notice of his intention louring it forward on an early day after tlie holidays- What hi-meant to prupine ' , an iumsligntiou inio the different circiiinstances that had titken place at BnWicormac . —( Hi- ; ir , hear . ) Mr . Slllill , mquirod if the Hon . Buronel would Sk a day ? Sir F . ' liL'RDKTT did wit kiinw brtff HmnonVes stood , but if the Hon . Member would take the trouble of naming si day , it womd nnswer hi's purposK . The sooner the ditcusKon took place the belter . — ( Hear , bear . ) Mr . FIELD EN put a question to Lord John Russell , wliich was noi hi-ftril in ihe £ tillory . His Lord * ahip ' reply was eqin . lly uiiineelliphla . FK ^ Slo ^ list . Sir GEORGF . SINCLAIR gave notice that on tomorrow , when thi > names uf the committee to inquire into the pension list were laid before Ihe House , if tho nsnie of the Him . Member Sir South wart was not amongst them , he would movothatit beinserted , in lieu of one of thofle ^ eutlcmuQ ttamed by her Miyesty ' n Ministers , and if the preponderance were oTmiKised of those Members who had hecnheretofore unfneodly to the inquiry , he would move Ihut other * be substituted in their pluoos . —( Hear , hear . ) iiii umsuow rnisoxEHs . Mr . WARl'EV gave notice lhat he iihonld tomorrow present 11 petition , signed by 20 . 0 UU Inliabi-UtntH of Glasgow , complaining of thy conhnumunt of tfepit fellow-dtiHens \ ij tbe law officers of lb . « crown . Lord J . RF 5 SEIX appeared at the bar , and brought up Ihe fbHowing me ^ sa ^ e from her Majesty , which was read nloud by tlu ? Speaker , tile' member * standing and mic'Nvered . The message is tbp sumo as tbnt to tho Lords . Lord J . RUSSELL gave notice that ho would tomorrow move tbiit the mileage bu taken into cou-¦ iideratiiin by the house .
fiVIL LIST ACT . Mr . HUME wished to know what course was to be takfin with reference to the rivil list , as many flon . Members had only inst received the report . The < JllANCELL ( tll of the EX . rHF . O . UEll said thnt when in coininitiei . ' on the bilL he pledged himself lliat tae order of rtin day should be brought oa at an early opportunity , in order dmt the fullest opuortuiiity mighf be uBorded for sin'h diEcussiuu . AM tliat heshonlddo now wastomoveaprefiminar ) - resolution to enable Mm to introduce the bill . It would take a considerable time to go through all the vtiiges , but he trusted it would be passed with u * much dispatch as possible , lie should move a resolution founded in the reywtt in the hamla of Hoa . Members , that it be reported , to-morrow , and ihn disenssion in commitfue rake place . On Friday , Mr . D . W . HAItVEY said , asthe Hon . Gentleman proposed to defer the discussion 011 this subject to Friday , lie should then press for th * course which ( loveruinful intended to take iu reference to thu Duchies of Carunall and Lancaster , and likewise asS in what way they proposed ( no * lhat Hit ) Crown had jiiveu up its exclusive interests ) to deal with that considerable sonrcu of iurome in the enjoyment of tlie Crown arising from Uddng nome'mon ( if in tPstaU * estates . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said , perhaps as the last question invoked matter oi a rather intricate kind , it would be betler for IhB Hbn . Member Io put it in writing , iiud he ( Mr . Rice ) conld llien Jie * M ? tu put tie nnswei iii a written shape , which would perhaps be more sn&wctory to the Hon . Gentleman . If it was 1101 satisfuctory the Hon . ( Jiuitlemau could repeat his qneadau on Friday . The other questions of the Hon . MiHnber would bd better put aud answered on Friday-Mr . HAKVEV sitid he had no objection W aequiewu ! in flie proposition of tliu Right Hon-Geutlenum ; Hut lie would not undertake to lie bonnd by the written aiiswer of tho Right lion . Cenllemao . The CHANCELUMt of tbu EXCHEQUER said he would lie miite retdy to answer the Hon . Gentleman on Friday , shnuM the written comnuinicatiou uot be satisfactory . Mr . CROTE « ave nouce thjit on Friday next , or whatever day might be Gseil , be would talte ( he opportunity to lake the sense of the House on tin " que . ition of the Continuance of any pensions on the civil list , and mow thnt 110 sum bfl granted to her Majesty for any" pensions on the civil list , sa , ve nnd exefpt those alix-iidy there . He alluded more particularly to the proposition to grant tbe sumo ! ' £ 1 , 200 annually to the Lrowji tor pensions . 1 NrtAEEB tnen nt tbe chair
ne . Tbe CHANCELLOR of the KXCHF . QUER then uiovBil this rfifiiliiurnn of the aflL ^ l eomnuiw ™ oil llie civil list . A 3 no business « f importance vraa Rued for Thursday , he tlioufiht that would be the best day for the discussion . The lirst resolution waa "lhat for tho support of her Maj «« y ' n household and of tlie honour and dignity of the crown a sum of jiSUMXXI per annum be granted to licr Majestv , witn a further sum of £ 100 , 000 for her Majesty ' s liousehnld servants ; * nd that the ^ aytiient of tiieso sumi commence from the demise ot ii ? lute Majesty , and be paid ont of the Consolidatsd Fund . " The next resolution was ¦ ' That a sum of £ l , ' 2 lW p * r annnin he also charged ou tlie Cnusolidaujd Fuud , and be ulacod at the dUposal of ber Majesty for the granting of pansions . ' Mr . HUME wished to know whether : o ; resorttion contained the worl 3 '' notexcc * lins "
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HOUSS OF LORDS . FRIDAY , Dec . 8 . Ijord DE ^^^ fAN presented ft petition from » ,. p « r « on of the anvae of Charles (* itt , praying for tho abolition of liopriiionmejit for Debt . The iccond report of the Commissioner of Ifrligioui inttrucQoti it ) Scotland was ordered tobe {¦ in ted . f I , urd GLESELG LtiJ on tile table cerdiin returns rfliiivc to « Im itaiu of ftp NegKi I ' opubitioii ia * t « 9 % ' est India colonies . He stated : ! .,:: the returns impacting the amount of compunsation , tbe name > o-F the parties receiving it , 4 c , would not be ready for pieeeutatiou for rix weeks . _ Lord BROUGHAM loinplained nf tbe length of lime thnt vrns Uikeu to prepiire Ihese returnii . He « tw no reason why they should not be prejwuted nt once . Tin , ' fjoblo and Leiiraed Lord then presenWd Letilion * fromKingabridge sod other places mDewiu-8 hire , prayjn ([ for the immediate extinction of llie AiipreiiticcshiP Syntom in the Colouie * . 1 In- House then odjonrned .
HOUSE OF COMMOXS . FRIDAY , Dec . 8 . Gl . MltlOW CDTTOS »» 1 SSRRS . Mr . IVAKLEV presented a petition from curtain Cotton Spinners of Glasgow , who had been imprisoned on nuspicion of huviuj ; beeii concernpd in the murder of rtn operative , comphiining of the delay which luid taken place in consequence" of their tntii having been postponed twice without any reason . The LOHD-AllVOCATK < nid , Iliat ( tridl difficulty had been experienced In endeavouring tv find ont who had been guilty of the murder of tlie operative in thu atrei'ts of ( ilasgi ? " , but the result of a tninule invest ^ aation of ull tbe circurostimces leil tu the apprehension of the president , treasurer , and offieemulaT rHcleM nion , ttndaiiothnr ji .-rson . supoomi to be guilirof the miirder . (? ousideruble , lirlicu 11 y Uadariseuin collptri m er ideace , and uccoriiiiiJ 10 the lairof Scotliiiid il wa * neeesinry that the nccusiid ahtiuld have n complete list of nil ihe dotumente , di-posilion » , names of v / itnessps , Ac . The court having prouonneed in favour of tin . 1 relevancy of the indictment- which wont into a long chain" of evidence , further information embracinj ; evidence uf il most important nature wjis communicated to llie publicpro 5 eculor , of which he coilld not avail hiiuwlf under that indictment . A new indictment was -a ' coriiingly IVjinie'l ; but his anxious wifdi was to hriuif the trinl to a conclusion at souu iui the forms of law mrald pBtttdt ,
THE FACTORY BILL . Lord ASHLEY inquired whether it was tbo intention of liovemmuut in the present session to iatTudaca -inj uvtf Asurv for t \ w purpOb « of amending the > 'acti > ry Afltf Lord J . RUSSELL said , it n * . is ( lie intention of Government to introduce , a bill to anunid the Factory Aet , butit would not embody Ibe olauaes suggested bv the Sohle Lord last session . ' The CHASrKLLOR of the EXCIIEQUF . il ro * e , iu , pursuance of his pledge to more thut Ihe House gu into Cotninittee on tiie C'iiil list . Fmm Tliu manner in nhii-li his former slatemeut had Wen re 4 ? iwJ , he LjmI bad cprljiinl . y no eipectaliini o ( being . opposed in his present motion , tie intended tojuake this motion in the precise terms of the origiinil tiotieti uf tbe Ilon . nnd Lmiraed Member ftir Southwnrk ( Mr . D . W , Harvey ) . He would submit tbe motion of the Hon . and Lcumed Gentleman , ¦ witiiout ultering one single word orproiiosing to alwr any one proposition contained in it . _ ( Oieeiu . ) Because it contained nt once a recognition of the princinle of inquiry , aud a recognition also that thnt inquiry is to h « made with , a due regwd to thejuat clmuieof the parties .. ( Hear , hear . ) The speaker ihvii tTitLTi ' ii iii Io ii iletoilof hujtoricnl circumstanced connected with tbe Ptnudun List . . Making particular reference to Mr . liurke's motion on the I'eusion List in 17 c 2 , end lli « u cvrmiag du « u u > Mt . Hume ' s inolioii in 1823 . Ho maintained that flic House has laid it down as a principle that tlie I'eusion List is liubject to the consideration i > f Parliament . In reference to the pensioner * , the lion . Speaker observed , we on ^ Utuot to castthemoff . ( HearJ lVeomjhttocxamainenotwitbje . iloui'yBndBi ! spicii > n but « ithjuslici ; , and even , l would say , with generosity , their respective eatuf ; ( hear- heflr ^} aud tliat . tOO ^ with a viuw of making provision for these purties . The Right Hon . Baronet means , I perceive , to inoie resultitions : B opposition to my motion ( or a committee , but will be undcrtalte that the House of L ' ommonB will vote the money nitbout inquiry ? ( Lond cheers . ) 1 aiis ine iiiiescouineueweu
nau r , snnpii' . cneering . J The Right Hon . Gentleman had a short eiperience , «¦(( Ji Ziigi iotiuur to tiimsal ^ of iJie duties n ! that office whkli _ 1 nave now Oiehunour of filling ; and 1 n ^ eal to him , dues hjs short experience enable him ti ' Eicy that he could look wit Ii con tideiice for a Kruiit of £ 150 . 000 after refusing and uegniiviug the Iifesetft iuqniry ' : ( Choert . ) \\ ill he Tindertake tliat lit ; i > wn friends will support ntc if I make a proposi " tiou of that kind ? ( Cheers . ) Hub In . ' , 1 ask , anj " doalit upoailussiibJBet r I take tlie liberty of 5 * y-UiB Uiati Miy ividividual vefaiiiis imjuiry » C ilia coniineikMinijut uf itne . w rdfin , when 11 is necessary to auk for a vute of 4 ' 15 O , 0 ! X ) a-year in pensions , or for eucIi of them , as lUriv be approved of , is a man who hat a lory slight knowledge of the state of partius or
o : ihenpniionsprev'iiiEiiigin this country , it he Uiiuks thai be hits a chance ol nbtniniug nuclt a vote if ho resists ini ] uiry . ( Cheers . ) I lake tip aeontraryposition , and in defence uf llie pensioner ! themselves , advocate a due inquiry into their claims , 1 find ili . it , upon former occasions , mnitv Hon . Gentlemen who ; ire now in the habit of voting on the opposite side of tho House , and who uru considered to ( jo Conserra' ¦ ' .. ¦ - . have supported tliis nrono ^ itiou . 1 shall not < i- ¦ ¦ ¦ ' ¦ go through [' n tu ; : ! l : but I Ilim ; lliu tiiime of ihe Him . Gentleman thu Member for Kent voting for it 011 a former evasion ; 1 find , t ( ju , the name of tho Honourable Member for Aylestaury , anil the Hon . Member for Fwme , the Hon . Member for Caithness , and my Honourable l ^ end the Honourable Baronet wllo sits below liie bar ( Sir Eaidlev Wilmot ) , and the Hononrnblc Gciitleman , thun Meiitber for Ccileraine , oniliiowSTemuerfiirStote-iipou-Trent ^ iupportetfiucli u proposition . ( Henr , hear . i Hut it may he said , if yon cliunge your course now , wliy are 110 L other Rvivtli'VBc » jiia ! iiiviiim ; U ( ui ^ iDstlirifj ? ISuliaicumsrauces call for tills int | uiry . The difference is this , thut you bnd upon funner discussions settled the civil liai ti ' n- ihe njienina Sovereian in iSU . It was then
so settled , and you nre nuw culled upon , with a new civil liat before jou , to vule iOffi 0 , 00 U , and 1 say that it is just and proper to have an iiniMir ) ' , ( Near , tear !) Having , then , stated this , 1 shall uot now atop to defend my awn consistency . 1 know thnl an attack may lie mode upon me , and probably will be made , for the different course ] bnve pursued upon n former , aiid lhat which I am adopting upon the present occasion . If it be so , 1 should not bit ashamed in Gikiug Am ' "' mrsL- tliat I now do in preference to that wliich j tool ; upon a lurmer Occiisioii , but , indeed , there is a sifAl dilFt'rence ^ betwufn lie two cases , if tilt ' defence uf inv consistency is to lie the subject of discussion , und iiot llie merit of the vote , is tlie question ( o be argued . But , (^ insistent or inconsistent , I say to Honourable Guntlenieu fresh from their consitutfiit * , aud with pledges of economy upon their lip ; , tliat now is tbe fitting opportunity tor redeeming tlieir uleilges—we tender ; them the fiiiresi and the fulkvt inquiry , unfettered , and unrestricted . ( Chcers . l > : ¦;¦ . Wd suv to tliem , by the obligations of eternal jiiMife , l > - ( UiL' oblisaSicjjisuf everj fiiudasd geneious feeling , that ( be mor « fair , the more right , and the more honourable they consider tJw claims of tlie pensioners to lie , the more bonnd are they lo enter into thut exaraioJiiloii undertaken by thu nriu ' sli Cuvernmeut Under these circumstiiices . Sir , and putting llie tolc upon these gromids , tnke the liberty nf inoiiug— " A selei't coiumitiee , to inquire bow far pensions granted 111 ^ rtue of 1 Win . IV . e . 24 , iiuil (! luirgi . -d on the civil list , and in virtue of % and 3 W'm . IV . c . ll ( i , and rhargsd oil Ihe cojisolidated fund , ought to be coulinued , having due regard to the iutt ri ^ hta of ' . he parties , and to economy in ( he \ token tlie ot tne
public expenditure . | lme worun motiuu ut' the Honourable Gentkinun the Memlter fur Southward , for ^ ubrnitiiug the pensions to 1 I 1 O lismnii in lion of a committee , and I mean unreservedly to give my beat assistance io [ heinquiries of that committee . Inow trust , Sir , thnt 1 have redeemed my pledge of actin £ fnirlv nnd candidly npon this subject of the pension list . ( Loud cliwrs . ) Sir R . f EHL : Sir , if this proposal of the Right Honourable ( ieutleman the Chancellor of the Ex-I'tipquiT involved merely some consideration of temporary policy or expediency , I mitflit have felt invsulf ni lAtrly to nilvmi to some « £ tins cumideratiiiiis to which lin hae referred for the purpose of laiubling me to decide upon lite course which I should pursae . I nuglit possibly have occupied myself , as he hits done , in rnnsa ^ king the past votes of members upon this sido of the House—1 might havif referred to pledges given to constituents ^ I might , "Wio , inive Stnled tlie . means » f ei-ading u direct vote ujMia iLa Jinerfion— - ] jnighr , loO , iiave contented ¦ nytelf with u vehement protest and violent decla-. Tiiiiion , and , haiing dune « i , I mijclit have iroi tated » he example of others 'ind tried to avoid coming w . iuiy decision [ elies'rr ; and laughter ] . If this question di « s imulie no consideniHou of expediency , but . considerations of equity and justice , Ulan I cure not 4 o , v rfnr voles of iuy friends may have been given - upon former occasions—1 cure not whether thi » be tt favourable opportunity for bringing parties into s -collision : for 1 am di'termini'd , in satisfaction of mi ¦ own feefinss , and in vindication of the eternal iulenvts of instice [ cheersj , by my vote , at least , ipoti the division thin colled fur by the Right lioiiiiurable fientleujnu , whatever bearing it ma ) - have upun parrjf interests , to show the , sincerity of my own convictions [ cheers ) . Tpou the Englisli iivillislllieieaie 383 peuuvinB . Tlwie ate only 68
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« | THE NORTHERN STAR . Decbmbbb 16 , 1837 .
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), Dec. 16, 1837, page 6, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct986/page/6/
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