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and disduss its details , and when the House should come to consider it next session , they would be themselves better prepared , and the . public would be found better informed respecting it . ¦ - Mr . Scarlett said that he did not feel great alarm for the fate of the measure , in point of argument , from finding
himself assimilated * to a raving madman . That was no argument ; and a man who professed himself to be under the influence of passion , could not he expected to use much argument . The honourable gentleman ( Mr . Gurney ) had confessed himself to be an abhorrer , and abhorrence was not much connected with reason .
He ( Mr . Scarlett ) . had taken a course which was not his own choice , for it was by arrangement with the opponents of the Bill , t * liat it was withdrawn without any discussion . When he had agreed to that arrangement , and abstained from
answering all the arguments that had been urged against this measure , he had not expected that advantage would be taken of his silence to declaim against the Bill . ~ His wish was , that no prejudice should go ^ forth to the public from either side . .
Mr , Gurnry explained . He wished to apologize to the honourable-and learned gentleman if there had l > een any want of courtesy in what he had said . It was against the nature of Hie Bill that helmd directed his observations . He might have warmly expressed his opinion of its tendency , but he had felt 110 desire whatever to be
disrespectful towards the honourable and learned gentleman . He ( Mr . Gurney ) had not been one of the opponents of the Biil with whom any arrangement had been made . Mr . P . Courteney said , that if any thing gave him pain in opposing the Bill of the honourable and learned gentleman ,
it was the praises which had been bestowed upon him for that opposition . He was a strenuous advocate for modifications and qualifications , and was disposed to agree with the honourable and learned gentleman , with respect to the second Bill of which he had given notice . Mr . Harbord complained that there
seemed to be a disposition , even that evening , to hear praises of the measure , but to hear nothing against it . Notwithstanding his respect for the talents of the honourable and learned gentleman , he differed entirely from him on this subject . Mr , C . F . Palmer said , that such a
Bill as this would do away with what he considered the chartered rights of the labouring classes , which were too sacred to be lightly tampered with . Without meaning arty disrespect , he would say th $ t % bere was not one member in the House who was sufficiently acquainted
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with the condition of the poor , to legislate upon the subject . He hoped rough inquiry would be made , and that returns of various kinds would be laid upon their table , before any thing like this Bill should be entertained . He had in his
possession a list of 300 poor labourers , who , at the end of the last centuryy could not support themselves by the amount of their earnings . He had himself lately made a similar calculation with respect to a smaller number . An extended
inquiry of this nature would demonstrate , that the wages of labour were not sufficient for the sustenance of the poor . Miv B . Cooper ( we believe ) said he would oppose the Bill . Colonel Davies conceived it to be unfair to take this opportunity of making
general declarations against the measure . Although he had been desired by many whom he respected , to oppose it , yet so convinced was he of its necessity , and so friendly to its general purpose , that , without pledging himself to support the precise Bill of his honourable and learned friend , he felt that some measure of that
nature was quite necessary * Mr . Monck said , that he considered the poor-laws to be an ingenious device for obtaining the greatest quantity of labour at the least expense ( hear , bear ); they ought , therefore , to be abolished ;
but previously to any ^ attempt of that kind , redress must be given of great and numerous grievances which affected the poor . When that redress should be afforded , they would be prepared for the extinction of the poor-rates .
Mr . Scarlett said he would state to the House the opinions of an individual , with respect to the tendency of our poorlaws , who certainly could not be considered to deserve the imputation of advocating mad schemes . He beliered ,
however , that the honourable gentleman ( Mr . H . Gurney ) had made use of this expression , without intending the slightest personal allusion to him (] VJr . Scarlett ) . The person whose opinions he was about to state to the House was Dr . Franklin .
That eminent individual had said , " that he was for doing good to the poor , but he doubted as to the means of effecting that object . In his youth he had travelled much , and he found that in those countries where tnost was done for the poor by the state , their situation was the most deplorable . He thought that those who
passed the English poor-laws took away the greatest inducement to frugality , industry and morality ; and had substituted a premium on idleness and crime . He was of opinion that a great change in the habits : of the people would soon be perceived , * i jf the poor-laws were repealed . " The honourable member then observed ,
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Sw JMaUig enee . ' ^ Parli <( m eA tary . Poor Relief Bill
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Citation
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Monthly Repository (1806-1838) and Unitarian Chronicle (1832-1833), Aug. 2, 1821, page 500, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/mruc/issues/vm2-ncseproduct2503/page/60/
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