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NATIONAL DELEGATE MEETING
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
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AT MAYCHS 8 TE& . The o ^ egaies appointed by the various Radical id eations throughout the country , to meet at Manfester , foi the purpose of fixing upon some- defiai-Ure plan for the obtaining of the People ' s Charter , ggd for the taasaetion of other important business ig ^ nblod at the Griffin Inn , Great Aneoats-street , m Monday morning . At eleven , ©' slock , the hoar appointed for the eomff encement of the proceeding , it baring been ascertained that there were about * dozen delegates jbeftdj arriTBd , Mr . Leach , delegate for South Lasjj ^ i re , was unanimously called to the chair , and ££ . John Amu , delegate for the West-Biding of jorkshire ,, was appointed Secretary . OORRESP 05 DBKCE .
The Secretary then proceeded to read the fol-Ig ^ jug correspondence : — ^ A letter from Mr . Richardson , of Manchester , and 80 W a prisoner in Lancaster Castle , for advocating tjje rights of the people . Mr . Richardson expressed jjij en * ire oonenrrence with the objects of the meeting , jad advised the delegates neither to adopt Lo wry " a plan , bot O'Connor ' s plan , and , above all , not " A Repub-EjaaV plan , on acconnt of its recommendation of ecrecy , but attentively to consider all these , and
eideaToui , by a careful selection of what was good Jb them , to lay down such a method of proceeding as ihould insure the object they had in view . He also expressed an opinion that John Frost and his fellowpatriots had fallen Tictims to ihe arts of traitors and ipies , who had assumed to be friendly to the cause ef gte Charter . Tlie Secretary expressed nis dissent from Ibis isst sentiment , and thought that accusations and ^ criminations among the friends of the people had already gone too far , in the truth of which ihe dele-Fn « present appeared heartily to concur . the Radical Association of Colne
A letter from , Lanasiiire , regretting that they could not send a delegate to be present on that day ; but should the proceedings last beyond Tuesday , a delegate would most likely appear from that town . APPOINTMENT OF DELEGATES . ^ Mi . Haxfibuov dategHbs trim the WwtKWrtfr ^ ere riee , ^ ad said be thought they were proceeding rathe ? irregularly . None of the delegates present had as yet delivered in their credentials ; and he tbonght that g -would be better that this should be done imme-« ately . This proposition seemed to meet the approbation of be meeting ; and the delegates present accordingly produced their credentials , which were successively re * d fcrthe Secretary . Tee following is a list of thair names skj tie localities they represent : — Hr . John Arran ^ Hatfield , West Riding of
York-Mr . James Leach and Mr . James Taylor , South Lanashire . ) Ir . J . Deegan , Stalybridge and LiTerpooL Mr . D . John , jun ., Merthyr Tydvil and Menmouth . Mr . J . B Hanson , district of Carlisle . Mr . VC . Tillman , Manchester . Mr . Beorge Alton , Preston . Mr- Samuel Lees * Stockport . Mr . Richard Littler , Salford . The following gentlemen stated they were appointed fcy the localifies placed after their respectiYe names , but they did not produce any credentials : — Mr . Andrew , Glossop . Mr . Lowe , Bolton . Mr . Royse , Hyde .
It was then stated that it was extremely probable tot other delegates would mate their appearance in Recourse of the afternoon ; and in order to enable these individuals to he present , it vu unanimously resolved to adjourn till two o ' clock . The meeting accordingly adjourned till that time , it betas then about twelve .
AFTERNOON SITTING . TbeCHAtKiujt took his seat at two o ' clock . E » Secretary then read the credentials of the fcBowin * s delegates , who teok their seats for the ftjkwing places : — Mr . Morgan Bristol and Bath . Mi . Caoke . Leith . Mr . Black Nottingham .
CORRBSP 05 BKSCE . Ihe Secretary then read the following correspoBdeace : — A letter from the Democratic Total Abstinence Society of Birmingham , regretting they were unable to * sd » delegate . Th * y strongly urged on the delegate ifceaeeesaitr « f recwmmenffiig total abstinance as a pewrfol mesas of carrying out the Charter , and ealled m ttem not to adjourn to Birmingham for the transactkaof business as had been proposed , bat state they riall be happy to- see any of the delegate * at Birmingba to meet Lovett and Collins after the business is
A letter from the Chairman of a public meeting at MBburgh , stating that no delegate has been appointed fir that city , and taasmi&iBg resolutions adopted there * mcb strongly recommend the delegates to avoid sxxeey themselves and to discountenance it in others to the plan of a secret directory , how could those Yho obeyed it be sure they were not obeying the orders ef GcYernment ? A letter from the Staflbrdshire Potteries Palitical Association , expressing their concurrence in the objects cf their meeting , and regretting they could not send a delegate , Mr . Richards , their delegate , to Convention , being absent from home , and others whom they would owe sent being hindered by bnsra&s . REGVLAT 10 KS FOR DlSCl ? SSI 05 .
The Chairhas said he thought that , before they proceeded to consider tLe plans which would belaid before them * on * e rule ought to be laid down for their fn&Bce in discussion . He should feel obliged to any gentleman who would propose a resolution defining the time jDoired for each speaker , and how many times he sb » a be allowed to speak . Hr . Hatfield then moved the following resolution ;—" That any delegate making a proposition shall be allowed fifteen minntes for that purpose ; all other 9 > eaten t « n minutes , and that no speaker speak twice aeept the proposer , who shall be allowed fifteen " unctes to reply . " The resolution was then seconded by Mr . Abkak , put from the chair , and carried unanimously .
PLiJfS FOS O&GASISIXG THE COi" > "TB . T . Mr . James TaTLOU moved thai the various plans * tota had appeared in the Star , as well as those lying « the table , be now read . The motion , having been seconded , was not put from toechiir . yJ ^^ Pkn Te&d by the " © cretofy -was the last plan |«> khed , that of Mr . O-Connor , which appeared in Usf ** k-BSfar . We think it will be too fresh in 1 he E ^ ory of our readers to render it necessary to give an »**»« of it ; we shall therefore content ourselves with totn * that it w « listened to with great attention by ^ jfeegata , u well as by the strangers present , exeept | ^ then- hearty laughter at several of the humourous asenptionjto be found in it , and loud applause followed s » conclusion .
tf t& ? lj K PHILP aid he desired to ail **» attention iw delegates to one or two inconsistencies in the «™» just read . Mr . O'Connor had not only proffi * pb ^ for their ^ option , but he had stated tot * V" ^ CMTy U < mt Bat u the delegates came ""» QlHeieat eonrAxuaon , what would Mr . O'Connor do ? u * Hx had ilre&dy M *** e& fte pnbUc mind ; and J ™™ «> forcibly struck him ttat he had written »» to hu consiitn-nts , advising them not to stir in ^ a » tter till the delegate meeting had come to a de-«*¦ He himself thought the delegates , who might » eoacdered the concentrated wisdom of the country , J * M be more likely to choose the best plan than one * & . James Tatxor rose to order . It had already * & decided that the various plans should be read P ^ iwa to any discussion taking place .
Efc SECRBTAKT said , it was true such a motion r « ea made and seconded , but it had not been put * e Chairman . * Mr . Boy jiE said as that was the case , he would move ^ « aendaent that Mr . O'C » nnor ' s plan be now ** - Biu > seconded the motion , ft ? oi 0 H !* 3 t ) E 8 GAN thought it wotdd be better refen ^ T * '" ions plans should be read , and then j ^ w to a committee for consideration . He felt coniXj *™* ** ° ne of these plans would be adopted as ttkuftfeL ^ i *** member might make notes of anytoaL , Z l * Fnck bm in the plans , and hand them over ^• - wnuQittfce . ^^ Jakes Tatlou said he had contemplated such * Sh t ° a committee » hen he had moved the do-»« S nT *^ " ^ He&nonld Prea « Ms motion to
S * b * S ^* v * P Bt **¦ K ° y * amendment to kifiimf ^ .. ' lrheQ U WM lost » only ttJree hands being IW *? * !/ " * " * « * 1 motioa *~ carrlexL ^ •«» tiT ^ L 1 Ml ' h ° 7 ior thB agitation of the tfc ^ V *** appeared in the Northern Star some ^ m ^ t Ulen " ^ * y ***• D « BGA * . ^ CW * * i 7 Btem ^ WS&niffltion therein ** * k ?! rt' ' n * ^^ read ** *• seckbtaut . ^ K lW ^ t , Penn * »«« an » eBded by a West S £ ^ i * fcto Meeting , wu read by Mr . Debgak . Ij ^ igr *^*! » ared the ^ far » few -ireeka back . ifcrfuT ^ taete&j eammgae&d «« dW tte Ht l , ^?^ W « . " - »*»« ^^ 1 *» M »»» r'f fa ^ » d whether " A Republican - did TvT » UBla Wl * Seemt mt ** m nf wKn . » uaA
| ' J ^ ttKAji _ YeB . \ + L TliL ? " —Then I more that his letter be not ** Pr ?? " ** »«> nded the motion . ^ bel ^!* ^** * ta *« < > ugBt to be read . It I * * & W , "honid not" ««« * ith "A Bepnblicaa , " taJ ** Sto . ^* like to k * " ^ e ^ 1 * d * jttdged . 12 * ! i « ocW ^ T tho « 831 t Uw rooHoo of the delegate r ***«! aij » nS . **¦<«»» <* order . It had already I ^^^^ ttw plfcM should be read .
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Mr . James Tatlob said he thonght there would be no danger . If there was danger to any one , it -would be to the publisher . CTbe letter in question , as most of out readers are no donbt awara , originally appeared in the Star . ] Mr . TiLLiiA * said it was not a fear of danger that actuated him . Hisobjeet was not to appear to countenance in any manner whatever , a system of secrecy . The SECRETARY said that the discussion was entirely out of order , it was the order of the meeting that all the plans should be read . - The motion was then abandoned , and "A Republican ' s" plan read . A plan of agitation , proposed by Mr . B . O'Brien , and ¦ which appeared last April in the Regenerator , a paper then published by Mr . Philp , in the West of England , was read by Mr . Morgan , delegate for Bristol . The next - J ^! : it ? . ? t ATL 0 B ¦*** * e thought there would be
document was read by Mr . Philp . It was theaddress of Mr . W . Q . Burns , delivered at Hull , in wnich he recommends the establishment of "A National Press ^ " This addrws was first published some months back by the Star . Mr . Williams , delegate from Sutherland , was then introduced to the meeting . The Chaibmak stated that there were several other plans before the meeting : they were in manuscript , and very lengthy . There was one of twenty-eight cloaelywntten psgea , One of them was by Mr . Benbew , a prisoner in Chester Castle . After a shert conversation , it was decided that these also should be read ^ . TheJSBggETfrwr nfonnmm iud « letter fromananonymros -writer , in exposition of his plan , " but the writing was not very clear , and he did not get on very quickly , upon which Mr . James Tatlob said he did not think they were bound- to read that which was illegible .
Mr . Deegan then volunteered to read it , but he also broke down .
It was then put on one side , and the Secretary commenced reading the- plan itself , which was in another hand . It occupied nearly an hour in reading ; but as we shall most likely lay before our readers , in the present number , the plan which will be de&nitively adopted by the delegates , it would not possess any interest . At its conclusion , The Secretary read the credentials of Mr . Philp , for Wiltshire ; Mr . T . A . Smart , for Leicester and Northampton ; Mr . James Baker , for Loughborough district , and they took their seats accordingly . The CHAiRMAJt then said he had been looking over Mr . Benbow * s paper , and he thought it could not fairly be considered a plan of the nature of the others . It was a very long paper , twice as long as that previously read , and he felt convinced the reading would occupy at least two hours . He thought , therefore , it must be passed over .
The meeting then adjourned for forty minutes , at the close of which , _ A plan was read from an anonymous writer at Longsight . It contained nothing particularly worthy of remark . There being no further plans before the chair , Mr . Deegan said he thought that it would be as well to refer the various plans to a committee , who should propose such a plan for the adoption of the delegates as should meet their approbation . He would , therefore , move" That a Committee of five persons be appointed to select from the various plans which have been laid before the meeting such portions as they may deem calculated to promote the object for which we have assembled , " Mr . Morgak seconded the motion .
Mr . Smart said his constituents had entrusted him with an outline respecting the organisation of the people , which he thought he had better read before the motion was put . He then proceeded to read it It recomm en ded—Pirst- » A general reorganisation upon a system to be sgreed upon after an examination of the different tO flTftt Second—A national fund to be placed under trustees chosen by the people ' s delegates . Third—The appointment of missionaries to explain and propagate the principles of the Charter , and Lastly—the appointment of a national executive as a head , without which unanimity of purpose could never be secured .
Mr . Philp had been deputed by several towns in Wiltshire tS"lay their opinions on the subject or reorganisation before the delegates . He read a written document , agreed to by them , in which it was stated that they considered the dissemination of political knowledge as indispensably necessary to carry out Chartism . This be ( Mr . P . ) considered perfectly just ; for h « was convinced that in those parts of the cauntry two-thirds of the people did not know what Chartism meant The document went on to state that political education being necessary , missionaries should be appointed ; and in order still further to ensure a general knowledge of what Chartism really is , that a printed copy of the Charter should be placed in the hands of every family in the country . It also recommended that
the people should obtain printing materials , and that they thould be divided into classes for their better organisation . With respect to classes , Mr . P . said that out 10 , 00 a inhabitants of Trowbridge there were 8 , 000 Chartists ; and he attributed its prevalence entirely to the carrying out of the class system there . They had set an example there te all other towns . They had purchased a place of meeting for £ 250 , only £ 50 of which was borrowed , and that was repaid within a month , and they had considerably improved the property , which was now worth £ 400 . The document also recommended that there should be a central power , and that there should also be divisions and sub-divisions ; and concluded with denouncing any thing bordering upon secrecy .
Mr . Johs , jun ., Baid that Chartism was going on flourishingly in Mertfcyr Tyrlvil and that district There were some good men left among them yet , or else they conld not have sent assistance both to the North of England and to Scotland , and have established a Radical press in the country . They did not sell less than 1 , 200 copies in a month , principally of the Northern Star . In Mertbyr the factions did not dare to call a public meeting for fear of being outvoted by the Chartists , who in their turn , were determined to haritas and defeat them till they did fall justice to the people . The burden of sending a delegate was not this tim& borne by Merthyr alone , because Pontypool and
other towns had lent their assistance . The people in his district were carrying on the agitation , and at the same time keeping within the bounds of the law . Mr . John then read the opinions of bis constituents , from which it appeared they particularly desired the establishment of a Central Board for the government of the whole , and the distribution of political tracts for the enlightenment of the people . They thought Bronterre ' s plan would fail for want of the electoral qualification on the part of the candidates ; and the plan recommended by the West-Riding delegate meeting too complicated . They also desired the delegates to take measures to secure the return of Frost , Williams , and Jones .
Mr . Philp handed in a plan of agitation which had been put into his hand by an individual in Bath . It contained nothing new in principle or in detail . . There being no further plans for the consideration of the delegates , and their being no amendment , the Chairman put the resoluttnon to the meeting , and it was carried unanimously . The fallowing gentlemen were then unanimously appointed the committee : —Messrs . Williams , of Sunderland ; Arran , of the West Riding ; Philp , of Wiltshire ; Deegan , of Stalybridge ; and Smart , of Leicestershire . Mr . Thomasso . n ( not a delegate ) was then appointed secretary in the room of Mr . Arran , during his absence on the ' committee .
The Chairman then announced that the committee would sit to-morrow , but that there was other business with which the delegates might occupy themselves in the mean-while . It was then decided that the delegates should meet the next day at Titna jn the morning , and they adjourned till that time at eight o'clock . TUESDAY , JULY 21 . Mr . Datid Black was called to the chair , and took his seat at a quarter to ten . Mr . Tillman ( delegate for Manchester ) obtained leave of absence for the day , on important business . The Chairman inquired whether they bad not better proceed to take the case of their imprisoned brethren into consideration . A Delegate thought they had better wait ,- as there were so few present .
Mr . Hatfield suggested that the names of the delegate * had better be ealled over ; thU was done at ten o'clock , at which time there were three delegates absent without leave ,
THS INCARCERATED CHART 1 ST * . Mr . Leach suggested thai each delegate sho&ld give an acceunt of the condition of the faxoiltaa Of the imprisoned coartistff in each town . Mr . Leach stated that there were seven or eight persons belonged to Bolton imprisoned , most of them with large families . There was one bugs family where the father was imprisoned , and the mother died in the family-way . They had been hi the habit of sending books round for subscriptions , and dividing the money on Tuesday nights . There was another family of seven children , who were reduced to entire destitution by the burning of the factory when they worked . His constituents were of opinion that a Central Board should be appointed to distribute the money as they » h « nght proper , and , it the Board was properly chosen , they \ t * A no doubt t > i > i $ hn distribution ws&ld be < r " p * irt ^ rl
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The Secretary said , it would not be out of order , perhaps , if he were to state that Mr . Marsden , late delegale to the National Convention for Preston , was arrested in Bolton l&st Thursday . Mr . SMART said that there has been not a single case either in Leicester or Northampton . There was a case which had been called a Chartist one in Loughborough , but the delegate from that place could best say whether it was a Chartist case or not Mr . Baker—I think not Mr . Lees said that there were now eight persons sent from Stockport , in Chester Castle , and their families were in great distress . They had formerly raised subscriptions for them ; but of late , owing to the strike , they had been unable to continue their subscriptions . It was the opinion of the people of Stockport that a national fund should be instituted as a central board for the distribution of the money according to the number in the familipj »_ The Secretary said , it would notbe oriof order .
Mr . phiip said that there was one prisoner from Trowbridge who had a wife and child who required support Mr . John , Jun ., said there had been no victims in Merthyr ; but there were five imprisoned in Brecknockshire , and four in Monmouth , besides three in the Penitentiary . There was also Shellard in Oakham Gaol , making thirteen in alL Mr . Alton taid that Preston was in the same position In this respect as Leicester and Northampton , with " the exoeptjon o ^ the recent arrest of Mr . Marsden . His constituents dhcired that * hr ThliffafaM thmW take into ^ ndderaUon thebeBtiBeana of establishing a
national system of relief , and they were willing to contribute their quota . They were of opinion that , under the present local system , that in several of the towns the people had their favourites , and thus the money was very unequally distributed . But if all the cases came before a Central Committee , bo that the money could be distributed in a regular manner , and the committeemen were men of known integrity , the confidence of the people would inerease the subscriptions , ror himself , he conld not suppose that the men of England , Scotland , and Wales would allow the wives and families of those to whom they owed a debt of gratitude to be immured in a Poor Law bastile .
Mr . Morgan stated that there were no victims from Bristol , and by four from Bath . Two of them , Messrs . Young and Roberts , had been liberated before the time of their imprisonment had expired . Messrs . Baldwin and Bartlett had no families . With regard to a National Fund , he would suggest that till some efficient and uniform plan could be laid down , £ 5 , 000 might be , -iised in a fortnight , by the subscription of Is . each from 100 , 000 persons . Mr . Hanson said there were no victims at Carlisle . He disagreed with the shilling subscription scheme of the delegate from Bristol . They had a proof of the truth of this in the report of the delegate from Stockport , who had stated that they could not now raise subscriptions there . Perhaps more money had been
subscribed in Carlisle for the imprisoned Chartists than in any other town , in proportion to its population ; but if he were to go back and say to them that they must each subscribe one shilling for this purpose , they would not listen to him . The people must be left to themselves , to subscribe as they thought proper ; and he had no doubt of their entertaining feelings of generosity and gratitude for their imprisoned friends ; but they must not be dictated to . They would subscribe their money when they knew it would be properly disposed of . The best way would be to appoint a a committee in Manchester , consisting of men who should have entire control over the money subscribed , and who should be Instructed that it was their first duty to devise some effective means for an equitable appropriation of the subscriptions .
Mr . Morgan , In explanation , said he did not contemplate the laying a tax upon the people . He merely desired that the shilling subscription should be entered into by those who could pay , in order to afford a temporary relief . Mr . Leech said there had been more victims in Manchester than in many other places . There were eleven in prison from Manchester , and one from Salford , making twelve , who were looked after by the Manchester Committee . The people of Manchester were of opinion that a national committee for the relief of all would be both troublesome and expensive . They were of opinion that each town should look after their own victims , but that a general ' committee should be formed for the relief of those who , like the Stockport prisoners .
had no relief from their own locality . It appeared from a notice in the Star that there was now a sum of about fifty or sixty pounds there available for this purpose , and he thought that all monies should be sent there . They had had much difficulty to contend with in Manchester with regard to this subject They at first called a public meeting , at which it was resolved that theater should be raised in price , the surplus t » form a general relief fund . This plan , however , w » j a failure ; and they found they must do something for themselves . They accordingly set to work to raise subscriptions ; and they had since been enabled to give four shillings a-week to the families of those in prison . ( Hear , hear . ) Very fortunately , the families were not large , there being none with more
than two children ; but , within the last fortnight , two of the women had been confined , and the sum , in each of their cases , had been raised from four shillings to eight shillings per week . ( Hear . ) They had , besides , six or seven pounds in hand , to make a trifling present to each prisoner as he came out , and they had promised seven or eight pounds for the general fund . They therefore thought the best plan was , for each town to relieve their own cases , and if they could afterwards spare anything for a general fund , to do so . There was another thing he would mention ; they treated all alike . Mr . Brontenre O'Brien was a clever and a popular man , but he did not get a farthing more than any of the rest They also had t « look after Benbow and Livesey , but they , as well as Mr . O'Brien , shared alike with the rest ( Hear . )
Ml . ROYSE , on the part of the people of Hyde , would say , that there wa » a general defence fund , while the Convention was sitting , to which they contributed . When they afterwards applied for relief from Messrs . M'Donall and Bradley , they got five pounds for M'Douail , and , he believed , five pounds more at a subsequent period , but for Bradley they got nothing . This had an appearance of partiality , and caused great dislike to a general fund in the minds of the people of Hyde . It bad been said , that if tried men were entrusted with the control of a general fund , the people would subscribe ; but , in this case the committee were all tried men . Mr .
Pitkethly , he believed , was treasurer ; and James Taylor , of Rochdale , and Mr . Rogers , of London , were on it ; and they had the controul of the funds . No doubt , they had done what they considered for the best ; but the people of Hyde thought otherwise . They had , however , kept Bradley , and done something for M'Douail ; they had also sent £ 3 to Stockport and Ashton . The expenses were very heavy ; Mr . Cobbett ' s bill , for the defence of Bradley , amounted to £ 10 . He thought each locality should support its own victims , and that a general fund should give them some assistance when they came out of prison .
Mr . Littler said that there was no victim from Salford except Mr . Richardson , who was included amongst the Manchester prisoners . Any trifle that they could raise was banded to the Manchester committee . They were so poer that they were unable to raise much , but they were very willing to co-operate in a general plan of relief , which they thought ought to be decided upon . The Secretart stated that there was only one person from Newcastle now in prison ; and he did not know whether he could be considered as coming under the designation of a Chartist victim . This person was Mr . John Bell , who was convicted of printing a seditious libeL He did not need assistance , as his wife continued to receive bis salary from the Northern Liberator . He could not state anything positive on the part of the people of Newcastle , as he was not delegated by them ; but he had no doubt they would heartily concur in any measures that that meeting might , on due consideration , think proper to recommend .
Mr . Leech said there were some persons imprisoned from that neighbourhood ( Manchester ) for training and drilling ; and for the last twelvemonths Mr . O'Connor had himself paid seven shillings a week each man for their support One was liberated before his time had expired , and they would all be out in a few day * Owing to Mr . O'Connor ' s liberality in the case , the Manchester people were relieved from the necessity of subscribing for them . Mr . Hatfield said he thought great dissatisfaction would be created throughout the West-Riding , unless some general plan for the relief of the victims were adopted . Mr . Lees said , that though the number of those now imprisoned from Stockport -was eight , yet there had been sixteen sent in all . He believed no town had made greater exertions than Stockport , and they had paid away as much as . £ 80 in one maatb .
Mr . COOKS said there were not law than twenty-six imprisoned from Leigh . Many of them had large families . There was ene person imprisoned in Lancaster , who had left a wife and four children . As to a national fund , the men of Leigh thought that all should contribute alike . The CHaIBMav said then had been no prisoner from Nottingham , but there were twelve from the county . Four out of these were liberated some time back , and eight a week ago yesterday . They bad not been attended to as well as they ought ; but still almost every Suiday evening there had been subscriptions for them , besides the weekly contribution . But now they were worse off than ever . They had no work , and they comld not ¦ utacrib * even ft faafflMOnYt He Wttld
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get no -work himself at home , and he had made up some goods and was carrying them round , and many others were doing the same . Mr . Fletcher had gone to America , and many others , and Mr . Wodehouse was talking of doing the same thing , and how it would all end he was sure he did not know . They had , however , paid 16 s . expenses of bail for each man of the last eight who had been liberated , and given each of them 7 s ., and Mr . Sweet thonght they would be able to make it up 10 s . each man . They would be willing to do what they could towards a general concern . The SEcaETABY said , as each delegate had now had an opportunity of giving in the sentiments of his constituents on this important subject , he would move , "That this meeting take steps to form a general Committee , resident in Manchester , for raising a national defence fond . " The motion was seconded by Mr . Alto * :, and carried unanimously . « tBn , Mt . ^ , . > . „„ ..-, . . _ , _ ,
Mr . ALTOM would like some explanation from the delegate from Hyde , respecting what bad &llen from him respecting the general defence fund . He understood that gentleman t # accuse the members of the Committee of the defence fund of partiality in the discharge of their duties . ° Mr . Roy . 8 E said he had been entirely misunderstood . He did not accuse any one . He merely stated that after a general Committee had been appointed , their prooeedings had aofc . giTen rttlsfoction to the people . of Hyde , vtojja-ijitftr meoount prt&wed 4 he »» w { L 4 art&e general system . . v Mr . Leech said that it was often the fault of the people that funds were not at their disposal , They should have applied to tba Northern Star for assistanceand If they had net done so it was not O'Connor ' s fault If he distributed the money sent to the Star , according to his own fe 3 lin « s , he might be accused of partiality with some shew of justice .
Mr . Royse bad not alluded to the Star funds . It traa to the defence fund , of WBiCu Mr . Pitkethly Wa 8 treasurer , that the people of Hyde had applied . Mr . Morgan then proposed the following resolution : — " That this meeting do recommend the formation of a commjttee of persons to attend to the distribution of a fund , j to be raised for the relief of the incarcerated victims . ] That such committee be requested to furnish a monthly report to the Northern Star . That the conductor of the Star be treasurer , and Mr . Heywood , of Manchester , be sub-treasurer . " Mr . Hanson seconded the motion .
Mr . Jaiie 9 Taylor thought auditors should be appointed . It would be better , too , that the treasurer should be in Manchester , and then he would be in the same locality as the committee . The funds ought to be most strictly looked after , as there was nothing the people had more at heart than a proper management of the funds ; he would , therefore , desire that auditors should be appointed . He objected to the Star being treasurer , because he doubted whether the accounts were efficiently and accurately kept Mr . Leech said that he did not believe they would be better kept in Manchester than at the Star : 'He thought the country had tke greatest confidence in the Star . Mr . Thomason thonght Mr . Taylor did not mean to throw any suspicion on the Star .
Mr . Taylor said he did not He wished to avoid the shade of suspicion , and he thonght there was a great deal more business done at the Star than they could well manage . The motion was then pnt , and carried unanimously . It was then moved T > y Mr . Royse , seconded by Mr . Barker , and carried unanimously" That Messrs . Leach , Littler , and Nuttall do make arrangements for a public meeting , to be held in Manchester , in order to elect a committee . " It was moved by Mr . James Taylor , seconded by Mr . Royse , and carried unanimously" That an auditing Aommlttee bo appointed to audit the accounts every three months . " It was moved by Mr . Lees , seconded by Mr . Cook , and carried unanimously"That the following gentlemen be the auditors for the next six months : —Messrs . T . Livesey , Rochdale ; 1 . Cocks , Hyde ; and Robert Green , Manchester . "
Mr . Spun was then introduced to the meeting , and , having produced his credentials , took his seat as delegate from London , he having been appointed at a public meeting . The SECRBbRY having read an outline of the business already transacted , Mr . Splrr said he could not agree with the arrangement * made , appointing a committee in Manchester to appropriate the victim fund , unconnected -with the plan for organising the whole nation in one general plan . If a national plan were adopted , the missionaries to the various districts would communicate with a general couHcil as to the distribution of the funds . The Secretary explained that It was intended to continue the present losal assistance , and that it was not intended to invest the committee at Manchester with these funds .
Mr . Spurr thonght that if the present system of local relief were continued , it would be the source , as at present , of continual complaint He contended that a central committee should have the disposal of all monies collected in connection with the general plan of organisation . It was time the present : system was done away with , as it made fish of one and flesh of the other .
Mr . Hatfield said , so far as he understood the objections of the delegate from London , that gentleman desired there should be one general plan for the carrying out everything connected with the Charter , whereas , by appointing the Manchester committee before the general plan was considered , there were two plans . The West / Riding delegates were of opinion that there should be a national fund . This he had already supported , and he feared that they WOUld have to undo -what had already been done . Mr . Leech said there were not two plans ; or , at all events , if there were , they were twins . He thought the general committee would have business enough , and the Manchester committee would relieve them of it Mr . Spurr still expressed himself dissatisfied with the arrangements . Where was the centralised system so much desired ? Where was the government ? Mr . John—That does not act here .
Mr . Spurr—I know it does not ; and it is of that that I complain . Mr . Hanson said that the resolution complained of had not been passed without due deliberation . Why should they undo that which had been thus done ? The first duty of the delegates was to make some arrangements for the persecuted Chartists . This they had done ; and if delegates came in , as Mr . Spun had done , to condemn their proceedings , they should never bring their affaire to a conclusion . Mr . James TaYXOR suggested that the subject had been sufficiently canvassed . The subject then dropped . The delegates then adjourned till three o ' clock .
AFTERNOON SITTING . The delegates assembled at three o ' clock , but the report of the committee appointed to draw up the general plan not being ready , there was no business before the meeting . At five o ' clock , Mr . Smart , Chairman of the Committee , reported that they had not yet finished their labours ; he , however , laid before the chair a part of the plan agreed upon Some discussion ensued upon the first clause ; but it was subsequently suggested by Mr . Leach , that the meeting could not deal with the clause with any hope of deciding aright , unless the -whole plan were laid > efore them . He , therefore , moved that the committee should be requested to retire and finish their labours . This motion having been duly seconded , was put and carried , and the . delegates adjourned till next morning , when it was hoped the whole plan would be ready for their consideration .
WEDNESDAY . Mr . Hatfield was called to the chair at ten o ' clock precisely . M . Hartley , delegate from Colne , took his seat this morning .
CORRESPONDENCE . . The Secretary read the following communicati ons : A letter from the Devonport Class of the Plymouth Chartists , to the Chairman of the Delegate meeting , regretting their inability , from the want of members and funds , to send a delegate to the meeting , and recommending to the serious attention of the assembled delegates ; a paper which appeared in tin Northern Star of the 13 th June ult , entitled " A voice from the North , " which advises the people to petition for the Charter , and state in such petition that tk-ey shall , if refuted , be compelled to leave their native land for ever , and to Seek from the free and enlightened Government of America that protection and liberty bo justly denied them at home .
An address from the members and friends of the Brighton Radical Association , agreed at a numerous and enthusiastic public meeting at the Cap of Liberty Inn , in that town , to the delegates assembled in Manchester . They consider the meeting highly necessary , and regret that circumstances prevent them from sending a representative themselves . They recommend M » . O'Brien's plan to the particular notice of the delegates / and also trust they -will take decisive steps towards the relief of the victims . PLAM FOB CARRYING OU 1 THK CHARTHB . Mr . Spurr asid he had a motion to . make upon t ' ae nbjecl . Wl Stevel plan was adopted , these mWt be
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an executive to carry it out ; and it -would be necessary that the ways end means should be provided for the maintenance of such executive . From the spirit of the letters they had heard read , he had no doubt that those places who had not sent representatives would assist themin their object He would therefore propose the following resolution : — "That this meeting , having assembled forthe express purpose of adopting and carrying into active operation a well-digested plan of national organisation and a regular systematic and universal method of aeita-S ? vSfL ^ " »? . ™ ll ? . lons ' . ™ tll a - fnll development of their moral and intellectual ..
capabilities and resources have compelled their oppressors to sacrifice that athe altar of expediency which new they refuse to offer to justice ; and having proceeded so far in the important work as to lead us to believe -we shall succeed in accomplishing this most desirable object , subjected only to the one condition of receiving pecuniary assistance from those places who have not any representative at this meeting , be it therefore resolved—That immediate application be made , by letter , to all such places , respectfully requesting onr friends' support , to enable us to attain the object fo » which this meeting was called . "
Mr . Baker seconded the motion . Mr . Hanson thought a motion of this sort was perfectly unnecessary , at all events at the present stage of the proceedings . - No doubt , when the plan now under consideration by the committee below-itad been , adopted by that meeting ^ itiyould be prtntea ' iifthe Northern Star ; and tfien it would be quite time enough to past such a resolution as the present . He thought it quite unnecessary , and would move , as an amendment , that the motion should stand over . Mr . John seconded the amendment Mr . Morgan thought the motion quite unnecessary . Those who had sent letters had not sent delegates , because they conld not find the means ; and it could not be Supposed that they would send money for this purpose . Besides they ( the delegates ) would have broken np by the time an answer could be received for that purpose from some of the places , Plymouth for instancfi .
Mr . Arran felt the subject was one of importance , but he thought it would be best to defer its consideration after the report of the committee below had been brought up . Mr . Spurr said they were met there for a specific object—the adopting and carrying out a plan of organisation ; and they ought not to leave till they had completed it Mr . Hanson did not think they had the power of appointing an executive ; when the plan was drawn out , it would be submitted to the country for their approval . If the delegates here present elected the executive , it would be as it were self-elected . The plan must be first approved of by the country . Mr . Leech was of opinion that they were not there to carry a plan out , but to lay it down . But , even if It wa 3 not so , he should like to hear the the report before he voted for the motion .
After some desultory conversation , Mr . Spun with drew his motion .
MR . O ' CONNOR ' S LETTER . The letter of Mr . O'Connor to the assembled delegates , which appeared in the last number of the Northern Star , was then read by the Secretary . CORRESPONDENCE . A letter frem the Wigan Chartist Association was then read by the Secretary . They regretted they were not able to send a delegate , as their Association waa but in its infancy .
PLAN FOR CARRYING OVT IHB CHARTER . Mr . Williams brought up the report of the committee on this subject . He then read the plan which they had resoled upon . Mr . Deegan moved that the delegates should resolve themselves int j committee for the consideration of it Mr . Spubr seconded the motion . Mr . Williams moved as an amendment that the original rule of discussion be abided by . If they went Into committee , each member would be allowed to speak many times , which would cause a great loss of time . Mr . John seconded the amendment , which was adopted . The first chose , which incorporates the whole of the Chartists" of Britain in one society , to be ealled the " National Charter Association of Great Britain , " was then adopted without discussion .
On the second clause being put , which states the ob ject of the society to be the obtaining a faithful representation of the people of Great Britain and Ireland , Mr . Hanson said he thought there was an anomaly here . The Association was designated in the first clause , the " National Association of Great Britain , " and the second stated that its object was to obtain a representation of Great Britain and Ireland . He thought the word Ireland ought to have been introduced into the first clause . Mr . Arran said the committee had not included Ireland in the title , because there was no probability of the Irish joining in the movement at present Under such circumstances it would appear ridiculous . Mr . Littler thought many of the Irish were favourable to the movement
Mr . Williams said the question had been argued in committee . They thought they had better not include Ireland in the title , as the Irish had not as a body supported the movement ; but they had introduced it in the second clause , to show that their object was to obtain reform for both countries . Mr . Leech approved of the clauses as they stood . It showed a willingness on their parts to do good for Ireland , which the Irish were unwilling to do for themselves . He thought it would be as well if , at the conclusion of their proceedings , they issued an address to the poople ef that country . The clause was then adopted . The third clause enumerates the six points of the Charter , as the principles necessary to secure a just representation of the people . Mr . Spurr thought that , instead of an enumeration of "the six points , " the words " the People's Charter should bo substituted .
Mr . Philp said the Committee thought it best to embody the six points in the plan , so that , when it was circulated , the people should know what the principles of the Charter really were ; for there were many , he was serry to say , who were unacquainted with them . Mr . Dkegan Bald the words " unconvicted of crime " were omitted from the definition of those persons who were to be entrusted with the Suffrage . . He wished t * know whether this had been done intentionally ? Mr . Arran said it was the opinion of the Committee that , when a man Was convicted of crime he was punished by the laws , and that , therefore , to deprive him of the franchise would be unjust , as that would be punishing him twice over . The clause was then adopted , The fourth clause , which recommends petitioning Parliament as one means of accomplishing the objects of the association , gave rise to considerable discussion .
Mr . Spurr said the men of London could never be brought to petition . Their reason was this : —the House did not own them or recognise them . He had not even signed a petition in favour of Frost , so opposed was he to it If he thought he could effect the liberation of any person or parties by petition , he would do so ; but he was most decidedly of opinion that to petition the House was altogether useless . He would not condescend to petition . Whatever concessions bad been made in past times by tyrants , had been made through force , or the fear of force . For that reason , he thought that they ought not to recommend the people to petition , but that the question should be left to the executive . He would , therefore , move that the consideration of tills clause should , for the present , standover .
Mr . Hanson seconded the motion . He had solemnly declared he -would never petition again . Mr . O'Connor had advised them never to petition again ; and he would never sign any petitions but those of mercy . The House was a body that did not recognise him , and he would not , therefore , recognise them . Mr . Arran would ask , was not petitioning the best cover for public meetings ? Mr . Philp would support the clause as it stood , because he considered that the exercise of the right of petition invested them with great power . It was not that he expected to get any thing from the House by petitioning ; but it Was the best form of bringing their grievances before the ., people of this country . He should support the clause , because it rendered the objects of the society legal . Mr . Lees said Mr . O'Connor had lately advised them to petition . He should vote forthe clause as it
Mr . Morgan said , that if he consulted only has feelings , he was quite sure he shomjd be as averse to petition as any man : but they must act upon sound policy . It waa true that Mr . O'Connor had been once against petitioning , but he bad since altered bis opinion upon the subject- What would have been the feelings of Vincent and others if the people had not petitioned for them , and thus obtained a change in their treat ment ? In Bristol , they found the magistrates treat them with napect when they got up their petitions numerously signed . Mr . Smlart , in common with others , did not think that the mere aet of petitioning them now , would obtain for them their rights ; but he would support the Clause , as tie exercise of the tight of petition would render their meetings legal
Mr . Littler , in the year 1919 , had come to a reso luttva not to sign any petition except in caaej of mercy He lad been iwftr to remonstrate , bat net to peUtioa .
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He thought , however , when t > person ^ o « nd MimeST I ? wIi ^ nJnW »* ** £ «* »»•* labourers released t trn ^ S f ° nd 8 tin « «* House with petttkmi ; and t » respect to the objects tbeywew mw contendinjr fc * . with Mr . Wakley , that they might as well vettthZ the rook , of Gibraltar as th . ' HouTof Co ^ cSf * S 1 * Tf » ntod 8 on » * W « to protect their nSiS Mr . Black regretted that such an expression aT » S more petitions ! - bad ever escaped any man ' s moutt He thought , after the wading of Mr . O'Connor ' s letfav every one would petition who could hold a pen : Bofc at the same time he must say that Nottingham S . ¦ , London , was against petitioning ; and if they could ' carry their object by any other means , he was sure they would never sign a petition again . Under all circom . stances , however , he was constrained to Tote far the clause as it stood :
Mr . Thomassok said he bad lately taken a petition } round in Newcastle-npon Tyne , for the abolition of r church rates , vand the liberation of John ThorornxxL and had applied to many of the middle classes to sign it Now the present House was nominated by them , and yet they , many of them , said it was of no use petitioning , unless for the effect it produced upon therpublic mind . This was the use of petitioning . Mr . Alton had been strongly opposed to petitioning but after what he had heard that -day he should vote for the clause . ^ Mr . Leech " said he would not occupy much time , ' but he could not let the vote pass silently . If petition- ' " ' ing were enforced as the sole means of proceeding he should oppose it ; but as it afforded facilities for the expression of opinion , and Influencing the public mind , he should vote for it «» .. *¦ "" —«••
Mr . Williams thought that the almost unanimous expression of feeling by the different delegates nrasfr have convinced Mr . Spurr of the necessity of petitioning . It was certainly not to be supposed that the Heuso of Commons would be moved by their petition * , but petitioning was a constitutional act , by which grievances were made known \ jV the country at largov «« , en ** & : by one gentleman that he would only petition in cases of mercy , ' -But was not the obtaining of the Charter an act of mercy ? Was . it not an kckoC to phtain their Mr .
^^ . ^ d ^« w to righto » ^ bi » had said he would jnbt sign *^^ petition for Frost Bb * if he ever saw the Sqottiah Patriot , he would final some good resulted from petitioning . That paper Renerally contained letters from Members of Parliament , ^ Messrs . Hume , Dennistoun , &c ., > acknowledging very i ?• « . - "Wtan of petitions , and sometimes Stating they should support their prayer . Tney ahouhl send up their petitions to Members , whether they wer * fnendi y or not These petitions would back their friends and annoy their foes .
Mk Baker hoped that whatever might be the ? 2 ? T ^ * t ^ tes P ** " * ° n this subject , to trusted that when they got homa they vrould act as tits majority determined . Mr . Deegan said whatever feelings might exist against petitions among the people , he hoped they would reconsider the subject He approved of petitioning for the same reasons as Mr . Williams . Mr . Spurr said his amendment was that the clause ) should stand over for consideration , not that it should , be expunged , The amendment was then put and lost , only two hands being held up for it , and the clause waa passed . The delegates then adjourned for an hour .
AFTERNOON SITTING . The Chairman took his seat at three o ' clock , when the consideration of the plan for carrying out the Chatter was resumed .
The fifth clause , providing that the condition of membership shall be the signing a declaration of principles , and the payment of 2 d . quarterly for a card , was then put Mr . John stated that in bis part of the country they charged 6 d . for a card . Mr . Baker said some persons might be able to give more than others . He would take 6 d . where he couW get it ; but few were too poor to afford a penny . Mr , Morgan thought the sum was sufficiently low . Mr . Lees said that two-pence was only for the card . There would be a penny a-week besides , and that would be found to be quite enough . Mr . SKARTsaid his constituents were so poor , that he thought the sum too much rather than too little . Two-pence for the card was enough in all conscience . The clause was then agreed to .
The sixth * clause provided that a book should be keptin a central situation , in which all the members' names should be entered . Mr . Black said be thought many would object to this . Some persons might be inclined to join , but dare not if their names were known , for fear of losing their employment \ Mr . Philp said the names woaldbe known onlytothow in the samelocality , and general executive . The society would bo illegal if the names were not entered at taVL Mr . Hanson thought it would be quite sufficient if each locality registered the atmeajof its members There would be an imtwmse inimber of names to register , and it would take the time of one man to engross them . The expense would be enormous . Mr . Williams said the object of this method of registering the members was to tender the socief * egaL The plan had been adopted by O'Connell , with respect to the various societies he had established In Ireland .
Mr . Hanson said Danial did this to pocket the guineas , five-shiHing pieces , and shillings , he got by it . Mr . Morgan would vote for the clause , after having heard the explanation of Mr . Williams . The clause was then put , and carried . The seventh clause appoints classes of ten each , » leader to be chosen by them , and collect a penny a week from each member of the class . Mr . Leech said the system of classes might do well for the country , where the population was thinly scattered ; but it would not answer in Manchester . There they met 300 at a time , and the secretary called the names over , and the money was paid at once . Mr . Morgan said they did the same thing at Bristol . Still there were some classes established , and they met once a week for instruction .
Mr . Philp said the class system bad been attended with a most beneficial result in Wiltshire . Before it was established , no one knew who paid , and who did not ; and the secretaries had so much business on their hands that their duty was but imperfectly performed Since the class system had been adopted , the money came in to a considerable extent It was also found effective in calling meetings ; each leadM called on his class , and in two hours they could be assembled . It had also been found useful in getting up subscriptiona for the relief funds . Mr . Smart said that as they had so much dimculty in getting in money , that , without the class system , be was satisfied they would net be able to get it in for any purpose whatever .
Mr . Hanson said there were not better Radicals is the country , than those of Carlisle , but they were sowretchedly poor that he was convinced it Would be Impossible for many of them to subscribe a penny per week . They might be able to manage a halfpenny Mr . Arran said it was to be collected " where possible . " ¦ - .. . Mr . Black said Nottingham was the same as Carlisle . They would pay the money , but they couldn't . Mr . Littler said that if they relied upon voluntary subscriptions , they would never be able to sustain the expenses of the Association . He knew that many could bnt ill afford it ; but he thought the poorest would make the sacrifice of a penny a -week in a cans * of such vital importance to himself .
Mr . Baker said , various religious bodies , whose members were very poor , managed to raise a penny a . week for them , and he thought they might do the same . The cry of poverty bad been raised for twenty years past . Mr . Lees thought the clause ought to stand . Mr . Alton thought those gentlemen who had spokes of the various religious bodies , did not take into account the great hold their ministers had upon their minds . They ( the delegates ) were going to recruit ; but these religious bodies had already got their volunteers , if a penny a week was to be subscribed , he was sure they should lose . members atPreston . He thought the members should pay according to their means . Mr . Leach said there was to be bnt one society and they ought , therefore , to adopt some stated amount of subscription for all places . He thought the subscription should be Id .
Mr . Spurr said he had heard poverty pleaded a thousand times ; but there ought to be no exception from the rule . Among the Wesleyans , where some were poor , those who were better off made up the difference , so that there was no less . They must try to do likewise ., The clause was then adodted , with a few verbal alterations . Clause eight divides each town into wards or divi sions , each ward to meet once a month , when class leaders are to attend and report— -Adopted . Clause nine , provides that at first ward meeting a eol leetor shall be appointed , who shall receive the money of the class-leaders , and pay it to the treasurer of the town or borough . — "Adopted . Clause ten divides the country into districts , according to the plan of the Poor Law Commissioners .
Mr . Hanson objected to having any thing to do with the Poor Law . Act . If they adopted any part of it , ft might be supposed they did Bo * 'think so bad of it as » wheli He thought it ought never to be mentioned , but to be condemned . - '' ¦ '' - ¦ ¦ ' ¦ ' "' ' ; Several delegates objected Tot sunBar wagoni , and County was substituted for Poor Law district *; and the clause , so amended , passed . ¦ Clause eleven provides that . ' the general government shall be entrusted to an executive of seven persons ; i » - cluding secretary and treasurer . —Adopted . Clause twelve provides that the general treasurer shall publish a statement of accounts , under a penalty for non-compliance . — -Adopted . Clause thirteen , which lays dowm toe duties of the general secretary , was then adopted . Clause fourteen , which provides that the executive shall be chosen by each ward or division , was put fro the chair , and adopted . - ¦ -
Clause fifteen , which defines the duties Of fee 0 T 0—tlve , Was then adopted . ThsdelegatesidjovnMdttUeightntx * morning .
National Delegate Meeting
NATIONAL DELEGATE MEETING
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VOL . III . No . 141 . SATURDAY , JULY 25 , 1840 . p "'" ""«»»« ^^ „ , * ' . give Shillings per Qoarter . HE i v :
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_ A AND LEEDS GENERAL ADVERTISER .
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), July 25, 1840, page unpage, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/king-y1kbzq92ze2694/page/1/
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