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HOUSE OF LORDS . —Fbidat , Feb L Petitions -were presented from Scarborough arid © ther places in favour of the total repeal of the Com On the motion of the Marquis ef NOBHilfBT , the Buildings' Regulation Bill and the Boroughs' Improvement Bill passed through committee , and -were ordered to be read a third time on Monday . On the motion of the Bake of Wellington , the Appreciation Acts * Amendment Bill passed through committee , and ¦ was ordered to be read a third time en Monday .
Lord Mosteagle , pursuant to notice , moved for the production of certain papers relative to the appointment of Mr . Eden and Mr . Percival to the Exchequer-Bill-oEce , and for other papers relative to " the late transactions . The Noble Lord said that his object was to afford information as to the working of the office , and to tring the whole business of it distinctly before the country . —Ordered . Lord BB . 0 T 2 GHAX said that he -was anxious not to make his motion for papers relative to tha seizure of the Creole in the absence of his Noble and Learned Friend , the Lord Chief Justice of the Queen's Bench , * nd , as his Noble and Learned I * riend "was unable to attend to it that day , he -would , -with their Lordships ' permission , postpone his motion until Monday . Their Lordships then adjourned to Mondsy .
Monday , Feb . 14 . The Lord Cha > ceixor . took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock-After some petitions in favour of a repeal of the . Corn laws had been presented , The Marquis of Nobha > 'bt presented a petition from the Mayor and Town Council of Birmingham , praying that the carrying out the provisions of the Regulation of Buildings' Bill might be confided to the Town Council , instead of to certain Commissioners , as had been proposed in the BilL The petition rs prayed to be heard by counsel on the subject , at the bar of their lordships' Howe . The Bill was then read a third time and passed .
The Marquis of Normasby- wished to impress upon the Noble Duke opposite the necessity of drawing the attention of bis colleagues in the Government to the propriety of introducing a Bill for the drainage of towns iato the other House . The Borough Improvements' Bill was read a third time , and passed . On the motion of the Duke of Welllngtox the Appropriation Acts' Amendment Bill was read s third time and passed . Lord Brougham moved for the production of the correspondence Telating to the American ship Creole ; but after a short debate , the motion was withdrawn , and the House a ^ jcumed .
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Monday , February 14 . 33 ie Speaker teek the chair a little before four o ' clock . A great number of petitions both against the Corn Laws generally , and against the Ministerial measure respecting them , were presented by different Members . KJaptain Boldeeo presented the Ordnance estimates . ¦ On the motion of Sir T .. Freeman tle a new writ was ordered for the Southern Division of tbe County of Salep , in the room of the Earl of Darlington , now Dnke ef Gleveland . Dr . Botvring postponed his motion with respect to the quarantine laws to Thursday next . Mr . Yernox Smith gave notice of his Intention to call the attention of the House to-morrow on the subject of emigration . Mr . DIseaeli gave notice of his intention ahortly to move the blending of diplomatic bodies .
On the motion of Mr . Shaw returns were ordered cf the mortality of infants in the North Union Woikhouse of Dublin . € ir D . Roche begged to ask the Right Hon . Gentlejuan for the satisfaction of the large holders of bonded com and cattle—igreat laughter)—when it was intended to apply the new dutie « , sbsuld his mewure ever pass the House— ( laughter )—to provisions now in bond . S r R , Peel understoed the question to be—supposing the measuro should pass—in what time was it
proposed to apply the new duties to com bonded m this country?—( hear , hear , from Sir D . Roche . ) He ceuld not see why the new duties should not come immediately into operation on the passing of the Act As to cattle , he was not aware of there being any in bond —( laughter)—but perhaps the Hon . Bart , was referring to a former statement of his ( Sir R . Peel ' s . ) What he meant was , in reference to other articles oi provision besides corn ; it was his opinion , and that of his colleagues , that the prohibition ought not to exist —( hear . )
Mr . Labouchere wished to put a question to the Right Hon . Gent ' . eman the Tice-President of the Board of Trade , respecting the regulating duties of the Colonies , which he was bringing before tbe consideration of tee House . It wa relative to the importation of corn from America into Canada . The House was aware that at present tbe importation of com and flour from America into Canada was duty free , and the question he wished to ask was , whether he was to understand tha effect of the schedule of duties laid on the table of the House , to be to put a dnty of 3 s . a quarter on American flour imported from America into Canada . . Mr . Gladstone said that the resolution which had been announced to the House was unquestionably one which would raise the question of placing a duty of 3 s . on corn imported from America . Tbe question would be raised , and he wculd then state the intention of the Government .
Mr . Laboechebe wished to ask the Right Honourable B . ironet ( Sir R . Peel ) whether it was the intention of Government to allow the importation of flour in bond . Sir R . Peel was aware that Irish Members took great interest in this subject , and remembered the opposition they gave last Session to the proposition in volved in the present question ; but he was bound to say , that in case of a change of the Cern and Provision laws , he could adopt no special legislation ; for though it was a provision exporting country , no exception could be made in her favour —( hear . ) Mr . Roebuck gave notice to the effect that when the qaestion of the importation of provisions from the Colonies came before the House , he would take the sense of the House on the question , whether or not it was competent for the House to tax the Colonies . ( Hear . )
THE CORN LAWS . —ADJOURNED DEBATE . Sir R . Peel now moved that the House resolve itseif into a Committee of the whole House , and resume the debate on the duties affecting the import of foreign corn . Mr . Greene having taken the Chair , Lord JOHN RUSSELL said , Sir , I believe I should in no way diminish the difficulties of the task I have undertaken , or obtain greater power for my arguments , if I were to commence my address te the Honse by preface or introduction . Therefore , I shall at once call the attention of the House to the position in which they no n stand . The question of the Corn Laws has been snbmittedtouaby the First Minister of the Crown . In proposing the scale he has laid before us , he has not
only acted npon the authority of the Government over which be presides ; but he has also informed us that having collected the opinions of those most interested in agriculture , he found there were but very few of that class who were not in favour ef some modification of the pointing corn law . We , therefore , now stand in the situation of considering the Corn Laws with a view to alteration by almost general consent—( hear , hear . ) The cry is no longer that of surrender—( cheers . ) The question is , as to the terms of the continuation —( hear , hear . ) Sir , if that be tbe case ; we are prepared to condemn tile present Com Laws as unfit to be longer continued on tbe statute book as inapt for the purpose for which they have been enacted , of regulating the trade in corn ; I say then , without fear of
contradictien , that it is of the utmost importance that you should make that change upon sound principles : that you should endeavour to make it give as much as possible of general satisfaction ; especially to that distressed portion of the community , of whose condition we have beard such lamentable accounts from both sides of the House ; and lastly , that it should be such a law that it would not be liable to cause an immediate fresh agitation of the question , but that all who are to live under that law , all who have transactions , in that most important of all articles of food , which comprehends , in its various classes , the whole community , that they should be aware of the state of law under which they are to live ; and be prepared to state that for a time at least , it Eflould net be disturbed—( hear . ) Sir ,
I think it necessary , however I may be obliged to trespass on tbe indulgence of the House in giving you my reasons for opposing , in this earJy stage , the measure ef the Government , to state as briefly as I can the general principles which should guide our legislation upon this subject . I do so , because although in one point I should agree with the principles laid down by the first Minister of the Crown , there are other points on which I entirely differ from him . I suppose it will be agreed that with respect to corn , as with respect to everything else , the general principle is one cf not legislating at all upon the subject—( hear , hear . ) The general principle with regard to all commodities is , that the producer or the seller endeavours to produce and to bring to market that which is most likely to find a ready and immediate purchaser ; and the purchaser ,
on bis side , goes to market to obtain the goods of which he is moat in need , the best in their quality , and the cheapest in their price , therefore legislators have no place on the subject . The community themselves are far better judges than the wisest Senate on the matter . The community themselves , in their several capacities , choose which are the articles of which they stand in need—they choose from whom they purchase them , aad those articles which afford profit . The producers themselves are the best judgeB of tbe articles they shall produce , and of the markets to which they shall bring their productions ; I therefore think your legislation is unwise , and the effect of this legislation of yeurs has been to cause the occupation of certain lands , and the employment of many labourers npon them . You should endeavour to
protect the labourers in your own country from an excess of taxation . But , Sir , I come then to agree to so much of protection as might be asked under these two heads . If it should be found in Committee—if it should be found , in discussing this matter in Committee , that there are undue preferences in the country I mention , I think they should be removed . If , however , it should be proved that there ara no such preferences , if there be encouragement given to agriculture by this law , that should likewise be taken into consider ation , but the Government in proposing the plan now before the House , take a wider range ; they laid their principle far more wide ; they laid down tbe principle adopted by Malthus , which principle was acted upon by the Legislature of this country on a former occasion .
You ought to make yourselves independent of foreign nations —( cheers . ) Now that is the principle upon which the present law is framed—that ia the principle upon which the proposition of the Right Hon . Baronet is framed , and which tends to prevent by prohibition other nations from sending food into this country . I confess , therefore , although this proposition may be excellent to some remote and sequestered state—although it might suit a state In Mexico , I cannot conceive how it can be applicable to a great commercial country . Supposing it were desirable , in what manner would you establish it in practice ? You must recollect it is not merely with respect to corn . The Right Hon . Baronet stated the other night that they bad bad for four years an importation of 4 , 300 , 080 quarters , so that it might
be said that the people of the country were dependant upon foreign eonntrits for upwards of one million of quarters a year . With respect to the other commodities the employment of the people engaged in manufactures at much depends nr >» n the supply of the raw material as food . If the supply of cotton from America were stopped , or the supply of foreign silk , there wonld be not less than five millions of people deprived of employment There would be seven millions of your people , if you go on this principle , who were dependent upon foreign nations for their food , aad who cannot but continue to be so dependent—( hear , bear )—so that it is evident that any attempt which yos have made to make this country independent of foreign countries has failed , and every ssea attempt must necessarily fail—( hear . )
The only w » r in which I conceive this object of the law to be wkbed for at all is in the case of war with foreign nattau . I cannot conceive greater time of war than when tMscountry was struggling against Napoleon -Hhsar , hear . ) But , during tie time of that war , two million quarters of corn were imported in one single year—< hear . ) Th&t ImrxTtattoa was greatly diminished in subsequent yean ; but itlU a * that time this country was admitting foreign corn , tbete being no law to prevent the importation , and th e people were living partly on the produce of other nitk * s . Bat is there any chance or probability teat you 1 "H fcave a greater war thdn that to contend with ? But «* 4 bere was , eiill I say that resting as you are npon « BHu * eree and manufacture , the supply of food would fee ia . danger ; but it would not be in the danger that is avpieiMiaded —( hear , bear , ) Therefore , the remedy dijvi& is tie very
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reverse of that which is proposed to the House—( cheers . ) The remedy proposed to the House as taken from the Right Hon . Gentleman ' s argument , is to endeavour as much as possible to-protect our native productions , and to make such a law as never to have any supply except from the northern parts of Europe . Tne Right Hon . Gentleman in that argument said that the countries with which we have our commerce are nearly in the same latitude as this country ia , and that consequently , their seasons were nearly the same as ours . In other words , the Right Hob . Baronet endeavoured to maintain that as ft necessary consequence , when those countries had abundance of provisions , so would this country have abundance , and when those countries had a scarcity bo also we
weuld have a scarcity — { loud cheering from the Opposition Benche ? . ) A . 1 that argument went upon the supposition that we should have a law BUch as that which exists at present , which confines the supplies of this country —( hear , hear . ) A real remedy could not be had in that way—our supplies should not be restricted or confined to those countries alone , bat instead of having our supplies in those countries , and in the North of Europe exclusively , we should be supplied by the North of Europe—by the countries adjacent to the Black Sea , and by every other country all over the world . Oar commerce should be extended all over the whole world for the purpose of giving us that supply of food of which we so greatly stand in need—( hear , and cheers . ) Sir , the proposal now made to the House by
the resolution proposed by the Right ' Hon . Baronet opposite , maintains the principle of a sliding scale , and it maintains the principle of a high duty —( loud cheers from the Opposition Benches , and counter cheers . ) In objection to that sliding scale , the first objection I take to it is , that a high and prohibitory duty , I should say , always forms part of that scale —( hear , hear , and loud cheers . ) I can understand a scale not exceeding 10 s . or 12-., and going down to 4 ? . or 2 s ., or Is ., but I find that whenever Honourable Gentlemen speak of a sliding scale , it always contains a high and a prohibitory duty . What is the first duty in this proposed measure ? The fiist duty is 20 p . upon all foreign wheat—( cries of hear , hear . ) I wish now to show first , that that is a prohibitory duty
—( cheers . ) I have looked at the papers which contain the latest information the House has bad upon the subject . I have looked at those papers which were presented to the House by the Right Hon . Gentleman , the Vice President of the Board of Trade , and also I have looked at the papers which were presented to Parliament , last year , by a gentleman who was expressly sent to the North of Europe for the purpose of ascertaining tbe precise state of trade there—a gentleman who had communications there not only with official persons , but also with merchants and persons in trade there . I was surprised at first that the Right Hon . Gentleman ( Sir Robert Peel ) in the course of bis speech , haviDg collected as he did , his information from that Gentleman ' s papers , should have made an attack upon that
Gentleman ; but when I looked at these papers my surprise cea ^ d , for I discovered that it was merely another proof of the discretion of the Right Hon . Gentleman—( laughter and cheering . ) I find that the price of wheat in Dantzic is 36 s . ; that the charges which they say ruust necessarily be incurred , and of which I need not go into details , would be 4 s . 6 d . to 5 s ., making in all 10 s . 6 d . to be added to the original price ; that as the original price at Dantzic , when brought from the interior of theconntry , would be 35 s ., they say , with the addition of 10 s . 6 d ., it would be Bold in England , making the price of 45 s . 6 d . What have we to add to that?— ( criesit" hear , hear" )—20 s—making 65 s . 6 d ., when the price here is 50 s . ; being tfcoursa a prohibitory duty —( cheers ) And in the name way , at
Odessa , it is stated in the return , that the pries will be 26 s ., and freight 10 s . ; of course , we must add to that some charges which we cannot tike at leas than 5 s ., there would be 61 s ., without the profit of the merchant Therefore , with respect to these lower samtr , you see there shall be a prohibitory duty of 20 s ., and that when corn iB 65 s ., there shall be a duty of 18 s . ; yet in all these instances it would be shown that the duty would be prohibitory . That when the price of grain is 55 s . and 56 s . —the price at which the Right Hon . Gentleman says it ought to be—when that favourite and chosen price is the one , and nobody can tell why that should be the price —( hear , from the Opposition benches)—there would then be a prohibitory duty on foreign corn ; true , the Right Hon . Gentleman
says , and he says most truly , "I think 20 s . is quite sufficient ; " and no doubt he is perfectly right—( hear . ) I think those duties of 45 s . and 47 s ., as we had in one year when corn was 39 s ., are odious , and ought not to be endured . I agree with the Right H- n . Gentleman , and I think that in 1821 , if they said 28 s . will exclude foreign corn , we don't want a door stronger than to keep the corn out If the door be itself strong enough , we have no occasion to put on iron plates and locks ; therefore , we will be satisfied with a duty of 203 . — ( hear , hear . ) But I must and do hope that we have arrived at a period in this question when we have a greater claim than what is entertained in the plan proposed by the Right Hob . Gentleman opposite , which , though it makes the old system appear rather lees
odious to tile country , in reality is nothing but a mockery —{ bear , hear . ) I have mentioned the price of corn at Danteic and Odessa , and if we reckon the average price of corn at 15 s ., the duty of 20 s . raises it to ( os . ; therefore , with respect to all foreign countries , I maintain that this duty of 20 s . is prohibitory ; it is not possible for me to say , though I have endeavoured to ascertain it , at what price duty ceases to be prohibitory . As the price increases , and the merchant gets a better pries , the duty fails . I should think , according to the statement I have made , that it could be imported at the present price , which is 6 s ., but it appears tome that corn brought from Dantzic will be 45 s . 6 d ., which , with the profits it requires , could hardly be sold at the present price of corn , namely , sixty-one
shillings . Up to this point you have a prohibitory duty . Now , Sir , I need not say that a prohibitory duty strikes at all the principles of trade . I do not mean to say every trade of the country , but at all the principles of trade . It is this that has caused so much mischief In the Corn Laws as they at present stand . The merchant buys an article in foreign countries , it may be at an advantageous price , or not according to the market ; and after incurring great expense , and after making himself liable to a large sum of money in order to bring articles from foreign countries , he finds , on bringing them to this country , a prohibitory duty staring him in the face , offering an insuperable obstacle to his trade by this impediment thrown in its way . ( Hear , hear , hear , and load cheers . )
Thus ia the sliding scale in its nature inimical to trade . Now , what has been tbe consequence during the last year of some of these duties ? It is stated very well in two pamphlets written on this subject , tbe one by Mr . Hubbard , aad the other by Mr . Greg . In one it 1 b shewn that , in June last—nay , I think on the 5 th of July , that the price of Dantzic Wheat was 48 s . a quarter , and you might have obtained it out of bond at 64 s . or 56 s . a quarter . It was not admitted on the 5 th of August , when corn had risen to 60 s . ; yet still it was not admitted the speculator had reason to believe that be could obtain a better price for it In the beginning of September , only two months after the time when it might have been sold at 48 s ., it was sold for 70 s ., thus being an addition , of 22 a . per quarter—( bear ,
hear , and cheera ) Was that a benefit to the inglish farmer —( loud cheers)—or was it a benefit to the landowner ! of this country ?—( cheers . ) No , it was given to the foreign speculator or holder of corn , thus benefitting them alone , without any benefit whatever to the consumer—( loud cheers . ) The corn was admitted at an enormous price without any benefit to the revenue or the consumer . Mr . Greg states—but I think it is an over calculation that he has made—but he states that the money paid to tbe holders of corn , and to the growers in foreign countries , was not less than £ 6 , 000 , 000 . As I said , I think that is over the sum , but I should think nor , less than £ 3 , 000 . 000 or £ 4 , 000 , 000 have necessarily been paid in order to obtain the benefits of this sliding
scale—( loud cheers . ) It was a tribute paid to the sliding scale , but a lose to the country—( loud cheers . ) Sir , I have another statement which I have received to-day , which shows another evil of tbe sliding scala You say that yon will take the duty according to those averages . The Right Hon . Bart , did not eay how he would settle the averages . He said they shall not be altered , they shall betaken much in the same way as heretofore . Now , take the averages as you may , there is one effect inherent , they do not tell the quality of the corn —( hear . ) During the present year , as has happened in one of the former years , a great portion of the Corn was very much damaged ; some persons , well acquainted with agriculture , say not leas than a fifth of tbe whole crop of England . Tbe consequence ha 3 been
a very great lowering of the price of corn in the market But do the people get their bread at all cheaper ?—( cries of hear , hear . ) You have a duty now of 26 a ., perhaps Instead of some lower sum , because it has come to that degree of cheapness ; but that degree of cheapness is not cheapness to the consumer of bread , because he is paying as much as when the average was much higher . Now , a gentleman who has written on this Bubject says , that in the beginning of 1841 , in the month of January , the average price of Wheat was 61 s 2 d . that in January 1842 , tbe average price was also 61 s 2 d . You would , therefore , suppose the price being the same , the averages being the same , the duties being the same , that the people could obtain their bread at the same price . Ia that the case ? fur from it . The price of the beat town flour at Mark-lane in the first four months of 1841 , was 55 s . a sack , and in 1842 it was 61 s . a sack , making a difference of ne less than 6 s . in the sack of floor , in that sack of floor , from which the bread is
admitted to be made , while the averages and the duty whichyou Impose , havenotaltered a single shilling . Now that is a fault— that is a defect , which you could not get rid of even if yon were to change your system of average ! twenty times , and to introduce 150 towns more than now proposed to be Introduced —( laughter from the opposition . ) It ia a fault by which you are charging the people witia improper duty , by which yon are making the poor labourer of this country pay a high price for his corn , and at the same time are excluding foreign corn from this country—( hear . ) Six , another defect which is likewise manifest in this scale , or in any scale , is that yon require foreign corn at particular times , when yon are unable to obtain it by that exchange of articles which accompanies a regular trade . You have prohibition for two or three years . You then find that a large supply will be required . The price rises enormously—as I have shown you tnepiice rises Ms . in the course of two months . You have
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many millions to pay , arid you have no means of meeting the demand by sending our goods . You have not a regular trade . Yon are obliged to send out part of ypnr stock of bullion to pay for that corn . The Bank of England naturally and inevitably ; contracts its issue ; and that contraction takes place whilst the whole commercial world is in a atate of embarrassment— ( bear , hear , )—When your manufacturers are unable to give employment to their artisans , and when those artisans are paying increased prices for the articles of sustenance . There must , no deubt , be seasons in which corn will be much higher than at -others . ; I admit that ; and I dp not think you can have a regular low price ; or a perfectly steady price , at all . But this I do- say—this 1 do assert , that if there are difficulties placed by nature
in the way of such steadiness of price , you have by your bad legislation aggravated those difficulties—( Cheers from the Opposition ;) You have heaped embarrassment upon embarrassment , and piled difficulty upon difficulties—( hear . ) A steadiness of price should be the object of your legislation , and that is totally incompatible with a prohibition at one moment , and a free admission at another—( hear , hear . ) Then with respect to frauds ; I wish to-saya few words upon that subject . I cannot think , however , with the Right Hon . Gsntleman , that while there are ; now very serious frauds , there will not also be very serious frauds under his scheme ; because , put it as you may , the raising of the prica is in every instance to be accompanied with alowering of the duty , and tothe extent of
the reduction you necessarily hold out a temptation to fraud . In the year 1830 ; I think , a Committee of the House Bat and investigated and exposed a great number of frauds that had been committed with respect to the averages , and they advised what they considered a remedy for thpse frauds . You had , however , in the last year—you had , in the years 1838 and 1839 frauds existing which were riotorious- ^ you had the marketa raised 9 s . a quarter in a single week , all for the purpose and with the contrivance , of obtaining a reduction of the duty . That at least ia a bad system of legislation which gives encoBragement to fraud and gambling speculations , when you ought to have an honest and wholesome trade . But there is another aud most serious effect of the sliding Bcale which I have touched upon
before , namely that it confines your supplies to countries in the North of Europe—( hear , hear . ) You have a deficient harvest , a scarcity in this conntry , arid a risu in prices—you then send immediately orders and ships to Dantzic , and to all the ports which communicate with us iu the Baltic , for cargoes of wheati in order to take advantage of our low duty . That corn comes in , arid you are to remain satisfied with that supply . But , suppose any merchant should say , "the prices of corn from the Baltic are too high . I know there is a market for British goods in North . America . I know that if their corn could be sent here in exchange for our goods I could dispose of it , and that the transaction would be profitable in both ways . ( Hear , hear . ) But if he were to send an order to America , the duty
may have risen by the time that the car <> o has arrived , and then your prohibitions stand in his way ; then your prices may have fallen , y » ur duty may be high , and he will find that for two or three years that cargo is left upon his hands , and he is a loser by the whole transaction . What a defect must that be in the law , whieh does not permit you to go at all to the most favourable market , which does not permit you to go i » the United States for your supply—ihear , near , ) Indeed , with respect to our commerce with foreign nations , there seems to be nothing more desirable than that we should endeavour to retain and to improve pur trade with America ; and 1 should say to you most emphatically , 'Preserve the markets of the United States , and of the Brazils . '' Great quantities of goods manufactured by
us have been imported to these countries . By adopting comuuMi rules , and by adhering to common sense , you would retain , improve , and enlarge almost indefinitely , those marketa —( hear , and cheers . ) But no , yo « say '' the present laws won't do , we must alterthem , and make a new contrivance , by which we may shut the door against the United States , and refuse to admit their produce to our marketa . I have here a statement which I have taken from Buckingham's work on America—an important extract—on the extent and means of production of the state of New York alone , as regards the growth of wheat ; arid which I shall take the liberty of reading to t ! ic House . [ Ther Noble Lord read the extract in a low veice ; but the substance of the quotation was , that this fertile territory extended
from the Lakes in the North to Ohio in the South , embracing an area of 280 , 000 ^ square ^ miles , being twice as large as the kingdom of France , and six times the Biza of England . It contained 188 , 000 , 000 acres of land , and was irrigated by , or branching ou the Ohio , the Wisconsin , and the Mississippi . Within twentyone yesrsita population hasincreased to the number of 3 , 000 , 000 , and it was calculated that by the year 1850 it Would have swelled to the aggregate of 6 , 000 , 000 . ] Now , proceeded tue Noble Lord , this great population , this vast extent of fertile and arable land is removed from this country to such , a distance , that on the authority of Mr . Curtis wheat could not be exported from those districts to our ports for less than from 43 s . to 47 s . a quarter ; so that the American could not
be considered a competitor by the English farmer , at least while there would be no just grounds to regard the American farmer aa such , the people of that country would be great consumers of your manufactures— ( hear ;) I do believe that 6 , 000 , 000 of people inhabiting so fertile a country would naturally prefer the pursuit of agriculture to manufactures—( cheers ) . I believe that , they would be glad to receive your manufactures in exchange for their food and expoita-HcheerB ) - —for however the manufacturers of the United States may be advancing , they cannot yet give the bulk of the people sufficient occupation , and it is probable that they will not do so for a long time—( hear . ) You have it in your power to establish a commerce of an extensive and useful kindof giving food to the people and employment to the
poor and in future years of enabling them to avoid that horrible distress which has prevailed of late—of bestowing comfort on the inhabitants of this kingdom while they consume the products of distant countries— - ( hear , hear . ) But , instead of this , you say "We have the power of regulation in our hands arid we will use it to stop this great trade . We nave the power in our hands to stop this accumulation of human comfort and prosperity , and because we have the power , we undertake to place a barrier ' against it "—( loud cheera ) Sir , such would be the effect of your continuance of the sliding scale . The objection was , that they could not avoid dearness in certain years , either , by a fixed duty or by any other fixed plan .
We have a right , Sir , to reject tho plan at present proposed for one more consonant with the maxims of trade—more consonant with the deductions of science —and , above a Ii , in ore consonant with the petitions of bur suffering population—( loud cheers . ) Opposed then , us I am , Sir , to the plan of a sliding scale , and thinking that any plan founded on that basis ought to beJrejected , I shall , if that plan be also presented , be ready to discuss the subject with those who oppose the laying on of any duty at all . I think that a moderate fixedduty wight be proposed vuith propriety ,: but what I propose , in the present instance , is the rejection ef the plan proposed by her Majesty's Ministers—( hear , bear . ) If it should be found that there are no exclusive burdens on agriculture—( hear , )—I should then
Bay , make such a provision of a duty , as shall prevent a sudden change , and prevent the falling into distress of great masses of agricultural labour . But if there should be , as I believe there are , peculiar burdens on agriculture , then impose a duty as moderate ; as you possibly dan , in consideration of those burdens . IK > not let us raise a single shilling—not a single farthing above what itf absolutely necessary . If there ia , as the Right Hon . GentlemaB states that there is , an advantage in submitting to restrictions for the . sake of the general interest , this argument , to be unconquerable , must be supported by good and sensible reasons—( hear , hear . ) Now , Sir , for a fixed duty we have , for a sliding scale it is not possible to have , such reaspnp . It may be said in favour of a fixed duty that it has been
recommended at different times by persona of great authority—ihear , hear . ) The first recommendation is from Mr . Malthua , who , in 1816 , proposed , after a certain time , that the duty should become fixed at 10 s . His proposal for a duty on foreign corn was that it should be first 20 a ., arid fall la , year by year , till it come to 10 ? ., where it should remain . Sir . M'Cullock , another advocate for a fixed duty , stated that , instead of the burdens of agriculture being equivalent to tv fixed duty of 10 s ., that a duty of 5 s . would be a full protection —( hear . ) The ^ oromitiee pf 1831 , which comprised many personaeminentinagriculture , among others , the Hon . Gentleman the Paymaster of the Forces , Sir T . Goocb , and many persons Of all classes and all opinions ' , also recommended a fixed duty . Sir Robert Peel expressed hia dissent .
Lord John Russeli—Does the Right Hon . GenHetnan dispute that ? The report begins by expressing a doubt whether there can be any solid foundation for agricultural prosperity expected by abstaining as far as possible from legislative interference with agriculture , either by protection or prohibition of importation : — ( loud cheers : ) The report then goes on to state that agriculture had flourished most when a free importation of corn bad been allowed . ( The Noble Lord proceeded to read various extracts from the report of the Committee alluded to ; from which it appeared that the Oommittee recommended a modification of the exlstinf law , which produced much inconvenience from the sudden manner in which the ports were opened under its enactments , and the consequent sudden influx of corn into the market , and suggested a remedy that , whenever the ports were open , com should be admitted at a fixed duty . The reading of this extract was followed by loud cheering and counter cheering . )
Permit me to observe , that although the Committee recommends a fixed duty , I cannot but think that the person who drew up the report , arid who so well explained and understood the principles of free trade , and » o anxiously advised an adoption of those principle ! , must when he recommended it , have considered the adoption of a fixed dfetyaa a temporary measure , as the best probably whichhe could obtain at the time —( h « ar , hear )—but must have looked forward to the ultimate adoption of the great principle which he had bo distinctly laid down in the commencement of the Report , and bave considered that the time would at length arrive when all protection and all prohibition should cease . ( Cheers . ) One cf the objections to a plan of » fixed duty is , that it would , in times of scarcity , prevent an adequate supply from comiog into ice . market . When I had the honour to propose a plan for & fixed duty to the House / 1 etated my belief that the im'PPaition of a fixed duty would in a great meaBure pie vest
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the occurrence of scarcity by securing a constant and regular supply ; bufc , at the same time , I stated there might be various methods of preventing a fixed duty acting in such a manner in times of scarcity ; and one of the remedies was to give to the Government the power of entering the ports under certain cirenmstances . I think that may be better than the view token by the Committee of 1821 . It may , perhaps , be better that at a certain point , 738 . or 74 s . there should be no duty : ( Great cheering from the Ministerial side of the House . ) I say that is matter of consideration . I proposed before that in case of scarcity there should be a discretionary power allowed to the crown , and I nowsay , as an alternative , that It should be considered whether in the case of high prices , the duty should not cease ;
( Hear , hear . ) The Right Hon . Gentleman stated the other night , that it would ba necessary for the purpose of the Tithe Commutation Act , that the system of average should be kept up —( loud cheers . ) But what he stated more particularly was , that if you had corn very cheap , there would 'be such abundance from foreign countries , that then tke English agriculturalists would be ruined by the competition ; and he stated if you have corn very dear , then the keeping upof a fixed duty would be an evil and a grievance . With respect to the former of these objections , I think the protection to the farmer ia the cheapness—( cheers )—of the abundant year . Then with respect to dear years , I am ready , and always was . ready to say , that I think a greater advantage would be given by it to the foreign
merchant than to the English agriculturist There is another part of the subject upon whieh I have not said a word , and which the Bight Honourable Gentleman dismissed at the commencement of the address to the House—I mean the distress that prevails in the country . That that distress exists to a , great extentthat it exists in Leeds , MancheBter . Va great part of the cotton dietrict , and part of Scotland , is now by no person denied . It was stated in the strongest terras by the Hon . Gentleman who seconded the Address ( Mr . Beckett ) The Right Hon . Baronet states that he does not propose his present com bill as any remedy for that distress— - ( hear , hear)—nor does he think the Corn Laws , as they at present exist , are at all answerable for that distress . Now , Sir , I should not say they Were ¦
the cause of the whole of this distress , but they tended very considerably to aggravate it ; and I think that a great relaxation of your Corn Laws would tend greatly , though not , perhaps , immediately , to mitigate that distress—( hear , hear , hear , and cheers . ) What has been said by persons conversant with the cotton trade in Manchester , in a circular which they addressed to the wholesale houses in London , that while the sale of cotton exported , profitably or not , has increased during the last .. year , the sale of these goods for domestic useB had decreased at the rate of 3 , 000 balesper week . They therefore conclude— -and tbeconcl usion is a natural one , and borne out by all the other evidence on the subject—that the want of means in the labouring classes to purchase clothing and other articles
as well as food , haa been the cause of the diminished consumption—that so mnoh greater part of the earnings of the labouring classes than hitherto have during the last two or three years gone in the purchase of bread . Now , this * titement is supported by all those who have communicated with the labouring portions of the community , and by their own statements in various parts of the coup try . I myself presented a petition tonight , from persons who , though sometimes able to pro * cure some bread , were ; unable to consume sugar at all ; and , with respect to other" articles , that the coriaimption of them was greatly diminished . Well , then , if you had a free admission of foreign corn , one of the consequences would be that the numerous classes able to purchase food at a cheaper rate would be
enabled to consume manufactures ; and another conse * quence would be that the manufacturers would find a better market for their goods , and that they would send these goods in exebanee for the goods sent to this country . Thereforej whilst I do not say that the whole of the distress is caused by the Corn Laws , oi would be totally removed by the repeal of . those laws , I do say thit they tend to aggravate the distress , and that you would mitigate that distress by a relaxation of those laws—ihear , and cheers . ) The Right Hon . Gentleman supposes us to be in a position similar to what has pecurred at other times in manufacturing districts when distress was as he thinks ' , occasioned partly by over-production , and partly by other causes . The Right Hon . Gentleman supposes that
over-production ; the operation of joint stock banks , and some other causes contributed in different degrees , and that ^ all the remedy is in the reduction cf the excess , arid a return to the former state pf flings , and the former amount of production . Now that is not the view which I take of the present state of things . Although it may be that the production of goods , has been somewhat in excess , ytt if that had been the cause of the distress , the distress would have passed away , and the evil would have cured itself—( hear , bear . ) The Right Hon . Baronet thinks that par t pf the evil is in the excessive building of houses in the manufacturing towns , and the consequent increase of the population ; arid that another partis in the improvement of machinery . Sir , I cannot say whether the first may be in some part a cause of distress ; but I say that with regard to machinery , tbe whole history of our
manufactures directly contradicts his opinion —( hear . ) Whenever improvements have taken place ia machinery , and meana have been formed ef lessening tbe amount of human labour necessary to produce an article , new markets have bren criaated or increased —( bear , hear )—and thus the whole number of persons employed has been increased at the same time and not diminished —( hear , hear . ) And what is the case of those great towns , such as Manchester , Leeds , Macclesfleld , arid Birmingham ?—( hear , hear . ) They increase year after year , bs the ingenuity of our eounlrymeri from time to time adds improvement to machinery—( hear , hear , hear . ) If the improvement » f machinery decreased employment , the case would have been the other way , and population would have decreased in those towns-Sir R- Peel made some observations which were not heard in the gallery . f
Lord JOHN RuSSEtL—Sir , I certainly did think the Right Hon . Baronet gave in , in some degree , to the opinion that machinery decreases employment It is an opinion which has been stated by several : who support bis views of this question , and I think it is very dangerous . ( Loud cries of " Hear , hear . " ) I thought that he mentioned the improvement of machinery as amongst the causes of the distress . But I believe that machinery would increase still more , and go on iucreasing , if you did but encourage freedom instead of imposing new restrictions . ; A great portion of the people think that Borne relief m » y be obtained by repealing those lairs . If you cannot repeal them totally , as iha great majority of the petitioners to this House against the Corn Laws demand , I do advise yon to make somg
material advance— 'bear , hear )—and Bhew that you are willing to meet their wishes , as far as is consistent with other interests—( bear , hear . ) I advise you to make some material advance that will shew you have sympathy with the Bufferings of the peoplt-T ( hear , hear . ) I agree , Sir , that it is perfectly impossible to hope that any good , or that any alleviation whatever of the general distress which prevails in the country , can arise frpiri that measure , which is only made to look a little better than the old measure—( cheers)—a measure which perpetuates the vicious principles already existing—forbids any improvemect—encourages speculation , and prevents your commerce with the north of Europe , the Black Sea , and the United States . . Such a measure , Sir , will do nothing to relieve the distress
of this country . Whatever you do , I advise you not to agree to such a measure as that If you think that the Corn Laws are founded on sound principles—that they tend to promote the interests of the country , dp not mind the sinister evils they may cause , but if you . dp make a change , do so for some purpose ; do not ionovate without you innovate for some good porpose —( cheers . ) Lord Bacon said that the fro ward retention of custom was sometimes as bad as innovation—but Lord Bacon never dreamed that there might be a measure of this kind proposed—a measure which wpnld have all the evils of "frpward retention pfcustom , " and yet contains within it all the mischiefs or evils of innovation—( hear , bear . ) A measure which does not improve your commerce ; and , therefore ,
caenot alleviate the existing state of distress—a measure which confines your trade , and which was proposed by the Government having first excited hopes fer a long period—hopes , Which when apparently on the point of being attained , a measure is proposed in reality standing upon the very same principles and producing similar results as those of the present law—( hear , hear . ) Such a measure , Sir , I consider is thai mow proposed . I cannot think ypii will legislate en this question to any purpose , unless you in the first place reject the measure now proposed —( hear , hear , arid loud cheers . ) If you reject that , you may hereafter consider to . "what extent you may set free ~ your trade in matters of food . You may hereafter consider how far yon ' will concede to the wishes of the
people—it will be open to you to take every view that may be proposed to you to consider . You may consider the agricultural interests and the quantity of land brought into cultivation . Yon may also consider the burthens which affect agriculture ; and I wish to say here , Sir , that if there be any odium ia advocating the imposition of a duty— -from that odium . 1 do not wish in the slightest degree to shrink —( hear , hear . ) Jf you adopt the system now proposed , though I do not believe that in the present civilised state of the people of England , you will not have such tumults and outrages as have taken place in former ; centuries ; yet I apprehend that you will produce growing discontent in the public mind . Aofc , therefore , so that it shall be said that you have legislated on well considered views , and for the benefit of the whole community . But I desire
now to impress the bet npon you ' , that all commercial men and all indifferent spectators have unanimously condemned the sliding-scale as the worst basis of legislation with respect to provisions , and that it is perfectly well known to the community at large tLat this principle hat been thus generally condemned . How can you believe that the public can be persuaded after such denunciations that the proprietors of land alone can . take impartial views on this subject ; that they who are chiefly interested should , contrary io the experience of all mankind , take clear and disinterested views ^ on the present occasion ?—^( hear , hear . ) The people will not bo reason . They will , I apprehend , attribute , however unjustly , that you have been biassed w favour of those interests with which you are conneeted , and in favour of a syBtem under which some members of the Government are said to have increaaad their incomes of late . ( Laughter and hear / hear . )
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Anything would be better than legislation of this kind . Be it error , if you will enact laws whlcb may savour of the ignorance of the 15 th and 16 th centuries on matten of trade , arid you may sustain the odium arising in con * sequence . But if yon allow it to be said that the Par * liament of this country—that the House of Commons have decided the question in which the food of the whole commxinity is involved on a partial basis , arid to maintain your own advantages , it will be impossible but that the Legislature shall suffer in the estimation of their country—( cheers . ) Such , Sir , being the views I take in the present crisis , I only'hope that you may coma . to that decision on this question which will show that you have large and enlightened intentions with respect to the future state of trade and commerce —( cheers )—that
you have considered agricultural , as well as all other interests , and that having so considered , you will pass » i&w , whic *» , when it is passed , rrien will look on ub a blessing to the country , and will thank you with gratitude and fervour in their hearts as wise and beneficient legislators—( cheers . ) That such may be your declsioa I mos < - cordially wish , but I cannot think that you can legislate thus unless you proceed upon principles entirely different from those submitted to you on Wednesday nitht I therefore beg to move '' that this House , considering the evils which have been caused by the present Corn Laws , and especially by the fluctuations of the graduated or sliding scale , is not prepared to adopt the measure of her Majesty ' s Government which is founded upon the same principle , and is likely to be attended by similar results . "
Mr . Gladstone said , the real question was , not which side of the House conld collect the greatest array of prejudice and passion in its support ; but whether , looking to what is practically best , the House ought , under all the considerations involved in the subject , to accept the proposal of his Right . Hon . Friend ( Sir R . Peelj ) or adopt that proposed last year by the Noble Lord . Now he was prepared to contend that the evils attributed to the existing Corn Law were to be attributed to that law only in a limited degree , arid he should further contend that the evils themselves were very much exaggerated . He further contended that the advantages of a fixed duty were grossly exaggerated , and that the objections which attached to such a duty on its own merits were perfectly insuperable . The
sliding scale was said to have been chargeable with tha evil of leading to serve fluctuations in price , but similar fluctuations bad taken place in countries where no srich law prevailed . The Hon . Gentleman i quoted . the prices of rye in Prussia at different periods , in order to support this view of the case t rye being in Prussia used as ; the general food of the people in about the same proportion as wheat was used in England . This , he said , proved that the \ fluctuations were to be attributed to the difficulty of adjusting the supply to the demand , . rather than ; to any . inherent evil in the law . The Hon . Gentleman then went on to show that at 64 ? . the Noble Lprd and Sir R . Peel wbnld , like great planets , be in conjunction as far as respected duty , but as the Noble Lord would not reduce his 8 p . duty to
Is . until it reached 73 a . or 74 s ., surely his plan held out far more temptations than that of his Right Hon . Friend to tamper with the averages ; for his Right Hoc Friend ' s ~ proposal was to reduce gradually and not suddenly , like that of the Noble Lord . As to considering the 208 . duty a prehibitory one , he had to remind the House that that duty was only levied when the price at home indicated ; an abundant supply in the home markets , at which time any material supply of foreign com would be prejudicial , and if this were to be considered a prohibitory duty , he ninst say that he sincerely hoped that we should be always blest with such a one . Since the year 1704 , there ; had always been a maximum duty of 203 . on tbe importation of foreign corn , and in the course of that time there was a period of thirty : years which was triumphantly referred to by the advocates
of a repeal of the Corn Laws as one during the whole of which' a free trade in corn practically prevailed . It was true that a free trade practically did prevail during that period , but nevertheless the maximum duty of 20 s . was also ^ in for . ee the ^^ whole time . It was said that if we took the corn of other countries they would take pur manufactures in return . Of this he would not have Hon . Gentleman to be too certain . How stood the case with Russia ? Was it because "we would not take Russian produce that Russia would not take our manufactures ? The fact waa this—we exported to Russia to the value of two millions per annum , arid we imported from that eountry over six millions in value . In addition tp this Russia had recently published a new tariff , by which additional restrictions were ; placed upon the importation into that country of British produce , which shewed that other conntries
were much , more favourable to an imitation of us in our former restrictive system , than likely to follow us in our modern system of relaxing those ; restrictions . The Hon . Gentleman concluded by vindicating the measureof the Government as a great imprevement of the present Corn Law , and , therefore , gave to it his hearty and conscientious support —( hear , hear . ) Mr . C . Wood said , it was out of the question to pretend to say that we should not be dependent on foreign nations for corn , when , for the last ten years the produce of the country was insufiicierit to supply its population , and when it was evident that the evil must increase with every future year . We must therefore be dependent in a great measure upon foreign supply , and the only question was as to the way in which
that supply could be obtairied with the least possible injury to any class of the community . The Hon . Gentleman then entered into a lengthened argument , interspersed with several calculations , in order to show that a fixed duty was preferable to a sliding scale . Mr . Liddkll said as far si his experience went he believed the measure proposed by the Government wpnld gratify sot only the agriculturists , but also a great portion of the manufacturing and commercial interests . It had never been asserted on the Ministerial side of the House that this couttry could be maintained wholly independent of foreign supply ; but it had been held that in a good average harvest tbe country could nearly supply itself with . food , and when it could not do so , the system of averages enabled them
to , obtain a sufficient supply without risking the prosperity of the agricultural classes of society . They knew from experience that they had little to expect from concession . When Catholic emancipation was granted in the most liberal manner , it was said that the reason of granting so liberal a measure was that it might give the fullest satisfaction . It gave satisfaction , however , but for a short time . ; Again , in the case of the Reform Bill , it was said in defence of the extent to which it went , that the people would not be satisfied with less . What was the result ? The Noble Lord who brought it forward had subsequently more trouble to defend his finality" than he ever had to upset the rotten boroughs . For the sake of conciliation , therefore , they should not depart from that Which was sound in principle . ' .: - : " . " - . : '¦ : '' .- ¦' . ' . " . ¦ ¦ - ' y" - , - , ¦ . - . ' \ ¦ ¦' ¦ : ¦ .. ¦" " : ¦ ' -. . ¦ : -: ; -
Dr . Bo wring said that the inferences drawn from his accounts of the consumption of the necessaries of life In Prussia , by the Right Hon . Baronet ( Sir R . Peel ) were erroneous ; but even , if true , and if there was a greater consumption per head ia England , that was no reason why it should be reduced . The fact was , however , that the condition of the people of England was , year after year , becoming worse , while in Prussia the condition of the inhabitants was progressively improving . He would prefer the scale suggested by Mr . Christopher to that proposed by the Government , for under the latter plan we could never have corn admitted in any quantity except under very rare circumstances , and concluded by a warning to the landed interests not to deal too harshly by the people , who paid more in proportion to their means than the landed proprietors to the support of the expencesof the state . '¦ : ¦ . ' '"• ¦¦ ¦ " ¦ ' }¦'¦ : ' . ¦' :. : ' . " . ¦ ' ; " '" . •' : -
Mr . FerSand ( amid loudenespf "dmde , divide" ) said that in rising to address the House he felt that he had awful responsibility to discharge , and under which he was placed . He had been requested by the working classes of the north of England to come down to this House and defend them from the persecution of thete oppressors . In the last session of Pafliament he bad risen in bis place here on behalf of the working classes of this country , and he had been granted a patient hearing . He hoped he should receive the same treatment at their hands , to-night , arid he would not onlyi on the part of himself , but also that of the working classes , feel very grateful to them—( hear , hear . ) It was his lot , from his youth , to reside in the middle of a manufacturing district ; and one of
the proudest acts of his life was to respond to the call whica they had made « pon hirii to stand forth in their behalf , and endeavour to burst aaririder the bonds of their oppressors-- ( hear , bear . ) The manufactures with whom he had the honour of being acquainted denied the allegations which were contained in the petitions which were placed upon the table —( bear , bear , and cheers . ) The working classes of the north of England assert that they had never been applied to , in the mas 3 , to agree to those petitions . They say that these petitions were an absolute fraud upon them , as well as a decided insult to the good sense of this House—( cheers- ) They assert that the signatures to those petitions were obtained by the foulest . means possible—they were obtained I y making a mere mockery of religion
—( hear , hear , arid cheers . ) And the anu ,-Corn Law League manufacturers have exacted the signatures of the working people with such tbreatenings , and such oppression , as are an outrage upon the liberty of the subject—( cheers and Laughter . ) Before he craved the notice of this House , he would allude to the Noble Lord , the Member for the city ot London , who hao asserted within the walls of this House , that this wa * a question which it was the duty of the country to decide , and not the Legislature . He ( Mr . Ferran < J ) thought that tha Noble Lord had himself appealed to the country ; and A ^ re was his answer—( great cheering ^ He ( the Noble Lord ) had appealed to the country tl the fixed duty project , and the Right Hon . Baronet
( Sir R Peel ) bad appealed to the country upon th « sliding scale—( cheers . ) It was true that the Noble Lord had taken his seat backed by a majority of nin » and these , it was said , were dead men —( laughter ) i but the Right Hen . Baranet had taken his seat in the House backed by a majority of ninety-one living representatives of the people —( cheers and laughter . ) P& haps the Noble Lord , boiling with rage mnder the ignominy of bis defeat , might assert that that majority was obtained by fifty different false statements . But what said Lord Morpeth when he started in Leeds ? In that place , lest there should be any mistake between her Majesty ' s Government then and the Right Hon . Baronet ^ the First Lord of the Trea ^ nry . Lord Morpeto ( Continued ' in burseventh page . )
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HOUSE OF COMMONS . —Fbidat , Feb . 11 . - Mr . Arkwright took the oativs and his seat for Leo-Tainstet . On the motion cf Sir G . CJ-EB . S , the following Members Wtffe nominated the Select Committee on Petitions for Private Bills . — . Sir . Strutt , Mr . Robert Clive , Mr . Rice , 3 Ir . TilHers Bfcuart , Mr . Wrightson , Mr . G Cavendish , Mr . Compton , Mr . Brotherton , Mr . Pakington , Mr . Forbes , Mr"Wm . Beckett , Mr . Bramston , Mr . Walker , Mr . George Philips , Mr . Bell , Mr . Gibson Craig , the O'Connor Bon , Mr . M'Kenzie , Mr . Horsmas , Mr . Eliot Yorke , 3 ir . Kemble , Mr . Aflionby , Sir John Yarde Buller , € 3 apfcun Jones , Mr . Thornely , Mr . Bameby , Mr . Chalmers , Mr . Tatton Egerton , Mr . Stansfield , Lord Wcrsley , Mr . Henry Baillis , Mr . Edward Buller , Sir Wm . Heatbeote , Mr . Hope Johnstone , Mr . Morgan John O'Consell , Mr . Packe , Mr . George Wm . Wood , Mr . Evans , Mr . Home Drummond , Mr . Parker , Mr . Marshall , and Sir Charles Douglas .
Petitions were presented in great numbers , praying for the total repeal of the Corn Laws . Sir C . Napier asked thn Right Hon . Baronet ( Sir B Peel ) whether he had any objection to l 3 y before the House a copy of the instructions given by Sir R . Stopford to General Mitchell , General Jackson , and Capt Stewart , after the submission of Mehemet Ali ; also the instructions given by 1 / sri . Ponsonby to General Jackson and Mr . Wood ; likewise , if any correspondence lias taken place between tbe British and Turkish Governments , relative to the amelioration of the inhabitants of Lebanon , as was promised by the allied powers .
Sir Robert Peel said that the instructions had been searched for but could not be found . He did sot think that the production of the correspondence relating to the amelioration of Syria would -further the Gallant Admiral ' s object , if produced , an * he ( Sir Robert Peel ) most , therefore , exercise bis discretion in withholding it ; but he would assure the Hon . and Gallant Admiral , that every effort on the part of the present government would be made to cause the Porte to fulfil its engagements with rerpeet to the amelioration of tiie condition of its subjects , and in granting the papers aoved for would be but defeating the object ¦ which the gallant of&cer had in view . —The subject then
dropped . Mr . Mi ££ Philips intimated to the House that be should for tbe present withdraw his motion for a " Copy ot the letter from Mr . Amory to Lord Palinerston , dated August 28 th , 1841 , together with its accompanying papers , and of the correspondence which followed thereon between Lord Aberdeen , Lord Canning , Mr . Amory , and Mr . Kinder . ** The Honourable Member said that whenever it should be his intention again to bring the matter before the House , he would give fall notice of the same . He assured the House that when he gave notice list night he was not at all aware that ihB Noble Lord to whom it related ( L 9 rd AshbHrton ) had sailed—ihear , hear . )
Mr . Pox Matjle moved a return of the number of Jury eases in the first division of the Court of Session , from the 1 st day of January , 1832 , till the 31 st day of July , 1841 ; specifying those in which the late Lord President of the Court of Session presided , and those in which any other and what Judge presided . Sir J . Graham resisted the motion , and said he trusted that the debate of last night would not be repeated . Mr . Fox MarLB cansented to withdraw it Mr . Waklbt expressed his surprise at the readiness with which tbe Hon . Gentleman consented to withdraw his motion , and said it was calculated to' impress the public mind with the convietion that the side of the House to which he belonged * a 3 in error , and that the other side possessed all the truth—( hear , hear . ) He Jioped the right Hon . Gentleman would persist in his motion . After a few words from Mr . Roebuck .
Sir B . Peei . said Uie grounds on which the house had refused tha notion were , that in departing from the usual course a reflection would be cast on tbe conduct aad character of two judges . The motion of to-night contained tbe same reflection as that of last night , and the Hon . Gentleman feeliog that , had consented to withdraw it Mr . O"Co . iXell thought it was a little too bad to refuse the returns sought , when the Hon . G-snUeman had removed from this motion that which was objected to in tha * of last night . Mr . Hope Johxson defended the character of tbe Lord President , and said that whenever he was absent from his post , it was from illness , or causes that might affect any man in a similar position . The Honse divided . The numbers were—For the motion 113 ; Against it , 130 ; Majority against the motion . 25 .
Mr . MiiKES called the attention of the House to the ease of those persons committed to the House of Correction at Salford , for non-attendance on some place of religions worship . This convietion , he said , w * j harsh and -onjost in the extreme , and was founded os an old act of James , which was altogether opposed . to the spirit of the present time . He therefore would call upon the Right Hon . Baronet to exert his legislative ability t » repetl ar amend bo unjust an act As it was necessary that he should conclude with a motion , he would move that a humble address be presented to her Majesty , praying that she would be graciously pleased to order a copy of the commitment of W . Ssarden to the New Biiler , Manchester , by Clement Rogers , and James Royds , at Rochdale , for non-attendance at church daring divine service on the Lord " B day . The Question having been put from the chair ,
Sir James Graham said he was the last person to vindicate the practice of magistrates who , when a party waa brought before them charged with one offence , proceeded to convict him for another , upon some enactment almost fallen into desuetude—( hear , hear . ) Such a practice was altogether unjast , and ought to be put an end to . Neither did he staad there to say that the exaction of snsh penalties as these was in accordance with the spirit of tile age . He did not think that temporal penalties were proper meana to enforce the performance of spiritual and personal duties . His Hon . Friend had called attention to tbe-existing penalty under tbe Uniformity Act , bat it most be remembered that , by the Act of Toleration , these dissenters from tbe Chorea of Sozlsnd who took the oaths of allegiance and
supremacy were exempted from their penalties . To persons sot dissenters , however , the Toleration Act gave no protection , and they were consequently still liable to the penalties of the Act of Uniformity ; bo that he really beUevsd that on Wednesday last all Hon . Members of the House who were members of the Church of England , aad all Hon . Members wbo were dissenters from the Church , on failing to shew that they had taken these oaths would have been legally liable , and might-have been convicted in penalties fer
non-attenduce « t church—( hear , hear . ) He thought that such a state of the law onght not to continue ; but he felt , nevertheless , that to touch tiie Acts of Uniformity and Toleration would require from the Government very great caution , and he wm not dispased to state without deliberation what was the bat course to be pursued . However , he would not shrink from stating that , if the Government should be able to find a suitable remedy , they would feel it their duty to apply it , whatever it might be . The House then adjourned *
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6 THE NORTHERN STAR , ^
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), Feb. 19, 1842, page 6, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct1149/page/6/
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