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•» ««TBA-nOS ONTUE PEOPLE'S SK ^ ESTATE , LOWBASDS , W0RCEfe g&lBE- __
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Note: This text has been automatically extracted via Optical Character Recognition (OCR) software. The text has not been manually corrected and should not be relied on to be an accurate representation of the item.
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& 3 * * £ ! sttJrgSL rat onT ^ reCted ln the «»*«» of that tontifiil Mr Tnm I m ° minE ' AugU 9 fc 1 Gtl » - rnna t - S *?** . ° f Nottingham , was for these- Ctafimce unammousI ? elected President of the debater— mg per 80 BS handed " * fteif names as Henry Smith Stockport Isaac Danson Manchester JamesTaylor Ashton J js eph Resets Manchester Thomas Raskin Do . William Foster Do . Daniel Donovan . Do . John Sutton Do . John Nuttal Do ! William Dixon Do . Nicholas Canning Wioan JeremiahYates Potteries John Warren Stockport ThomasWebb Do . Thomas Saunder 3 Brighton George Stephens Hull Robert Wad Derby George Humphries SomereTown T . M . JenkinB Ashton James Saundera Radford BwjamuuDouss Nottingham James Sweet Da . ThomasTattersall Bolton Ralph EntwisUe Blackburn Robert Kidd Dundee Zachariah Aatill Leicester Edward Lawless Warrington j Henry Ilainea Sunderland I James Hoyle Manchester j William Stark Do . j David Rise Morgan Merthyr ; William Munday Northampton William Jone 3 Leicester JohnGJeddill Haddersfield ; John Jones Boltca j Samuel Kydd Surrey j Duncan Shenington . Glasgow j Charles Willis Rochester i John Hornby O ' Conuorville , James Grassby Westminster ; John Buswell Banbury John Smith Bradford . Benjamin Barber Do . ' John Grey Blackburn . George Rico Newton Abbott j Anthony Annstead Blackburn j The credential were next read . Mr Samuel Ktdd moved— 'That the Conference i meet at tialf-paat nine , adjourn at one for dinner , at half-past two resume , and sit until six , ' which was . seconded , and carrisd unanimously . ! It was also resolved , after considerable discussion , : on the motion of Mr Rankin— That each mover of a motion hare five minutes to open his motion , and fire to reply ; also that each speaker who may address the Conference , shall be allowed five minutes for that purpose . ' On the motion of Mr S . Ktod , it was resolved' That the directors be allowed to speak on any motion , but not to vote . ' On the motion of Mr Raskin , it was likewise resolved— ' That a committee of seven be appointed t * investigate and report on disputed elections . ¦ Mr J . Edwarda then took his seat , as delegate for Newton Abbott , as did also Mr J . Harding for Worcester . !
Messrs S . Kydd , Wild , Tattereall , Grassby , Slierrington , Smith , and Gleddill , were then appointed members of the Election Committee . Mr John Hornby , hiving presented himself as a delesate for O'Connorville , Mr T . Clark said , the O'Connorville Estate was not a district , bat a portion of the Banbnry district , hence he was bound to enter his protest against Mr Hornby ' s election . It was resolved— 'That the subject be referred to the Election Committee . ' Mr John Lord was appointed doorkeeper to the Conference , and Mr Stephen Clark , messenger . On the motion of Mr Harding , it was resolved—• That tho dpowinn nf the Election Committee shall be final . '
On the motion of Messrs Smith and Barber , it was resolved— ' That any member desirous ofjmoving for an alteration in the existing rules of the Company , shall give notice of bringing forward the motion two hours prior to the introduction of the same , through the President . ' Mr M'Grath stated that the programme of business was printed in the Company ' s organ , the Northern Star , and was consequently well known to all , and suggested the propriety of reading the instruction * from the delegates , which having been assented to , , Mr Smith , of Stockport , Baid that district was . debuou 3 of having the pawer of regulating the salaries of district officers , without the interference of the Directors . Mr Webb confirmed the statement . Mr Diwaox said he was instructed to support the programme as issued by the Directors .
Mr Dawsox , of Manchester , said he was instructed to move that the numbers of fortunate shareholder ! and their residence should be published in the Northern Star , in lieu of their names as heretofore . On the motion of Messrs Ncitall and Smrion , it was re 3 « lved— ' That the Conference do adjourn until Tuesday morning . ' Second Day . —Tuesday , August 17 . The Conference resumed its Bitting at half-past nine o ' clock . The several delegates having answered to their names , the following persons took their
seats : — Joseph Hewitt Leeds Robert Burrell Greenock William Leach Cheltenham John Town 3 Bradford Frank Mirfield Sheffield J . A . Fussell Birmingham John Chance Stourbridge John Shaw Tower HamleU Benjamin Rushton Huddersfield Charles Rebbeck Bristol Joseph Linnev Bilston Mr Robest Kidd moved , seconded by Mr Bobreix — ' That the present standing erder relative to the time ot meeting be resoinded , and that we meet for business at eight , and continue the sitting , with one hour ' s intermission , until seven in the evening . ' The motion , after considerable discussion , was lost .
The Election Committee then reported— ' That Mr Canning should sit as a delegate . ' ' That Mr Hornby cannot be considered a delegate for O'Connorville . ' * That the six delegates from Manchester be allowed to take their seats , and that the other four have their expenses to return back again immediately . ' ' That Joseph Dawson do sit for Salford . ' On the motion of Mr O'Cos . nob , the report of the Committee was received . On the motion of Messrs O'Connor and Yates , it was resolved— ' Tfeat the four members be allowed to remain and speak on motions , but not to vote . '
Mr O ' Connor then rose te submit the programme , and stated that he had brought bis receipts down to Saturday last ; and in his balance s ' leet the sumi would appear as net cash—beating interest from that time . He would suggest that a financial committee be appointed , consisting of nine , which was seconded and carried unanimously . The following persons were elected : —J . A . Fussell , Burrell , Dixon , J . Shaw , Sherrington , Sweet , Edwards , Hewitt , and Morgan . The next question arising from the programme waa . the ' Labour Bank . ' Mr O'Connor stated that the . question had been fully set forth in the Labourer , much more fully than he could now set it forth . He had taken the opinion of council on the subject , and they had come to theconclusion that the bank should be under the controul and management of one man , and that the Land shall be the security to the
depositors : The Redemption Fund would be an additional security . He proposed that a thoroughly competent person should be appointed to fill the office of Bank Director , and that he have £ 400 per annum as remuneratioD ; for , be it remembered , they must have a person who has served an apprenticeship to the Banking system . His conviction was that for each £ 10 , 000 worth of land , they should raiseten thousand pounds , and thus would they be enabled to carry on their operations ; and , be it remembered , that the labour on the estates was continually increasing the value of the security offered for the £ 10 , 000 . Days would be 3 et apart for receiving deposits , on which day 9 ho would be in town to receive them , and would take care that they should be placed at interest immediately , and every year he would have a balance sheet of the Banking accounts , the same as he now had of the Land accounts .
Mr T . Cuke wished the Conference to understand that the director ! could not legally carry on the Bank themselves , and therefore Mr O'Connsr would be the banker , and they would transact business with him , on the same principle as with any other bankers . Ms Dosovis wished to understand how & rent 0 l » rg 8 WHiUb 9 aaaeaT » Jabl 9 8 ecnxitT , ^^
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, ' ' i Mr ° ' ? ° * explained that a rent charge wav looked on by the law as the best security . Mr Raskin wished to know how it would be when an allottee had paid up his redemption money and received his cottage and land . Mr O'Connor explained that the banker would only have to pay out an equal amount of stock . Mr Harding thought it would be necessary to cause depositors to give longer notice , before they should be allowed to withdraw their deposits . Mr Bdrrbli differed with Mr O'Connor . He did not see the necessity of the Bank being managed by one person , he could not see why it should not be conducted by a Board of Directors , something like the National Land Company , although a separate hoard from that Company . Mr Bnamed the
. Greenock Bank as an illustration of his arguments , and suggested the propriety of havingagents in Manchester , and other large towns ; that they should be men well qualified for the purpose , and that they should be amply remunerated for their services . He would therefore move— "That a committee should be appointed to consider the Bank question . ' Mr O'Cohxor . thought district Banks were out of the question , and he would not be responsible for any money except suoh as came through hisj own bands , and the number of paid officers required , would swallow up more than the interest on the deposits received . The laws relating to Banking in Scotland were different to those in England ; asun , he repeated , he would onjy . be responsible for money received by himself . '
# Mr Djxos : But you mean , surely , to allow persons in Manchester and other parts to receive monies and forward it ? Mr O'Comor : Undoubtedly . Mr Babbeb said , in Norwich they had trustees already appointed for the purpose , who transferred the money to the Bank in London , and furnished them with a recei pt in return . Mr Smith said the London Bank was satisfactory to his constituents . Mr EmwisiLB thought one Bank the most acceptable to the country . Mr John Shaw said , his constituents had instructed him to vote for * National Bank at once , lie perfectly agreed that the expense of local Banks would be ruinoua .
AlrTAtLoaaaid , in Ashton they had a secretary and treasurer , in whom they had confidence , in and through whom they were perfectly satisfied to remit their cash . Mr Sherrinqiox said , he thought printed instructions should be issued , setting forth how the money was to be transmitted , the interest it would bear , the notice required for withdrawal of deposits , < Ssc . Mr O Connor Baid , should ever the property change hands the security would be equally the same ; the Bank could not be carried on by directors , because , if the Company established a Bank they would be entitled to the prof ! ti , whereas he , as an individual , was not bound to do so , but cou'd give the advantages to the Company .
Mr A . Fbsssll moved , — 'That Mr O'Connor he hereby requested to carry out the Bankimmediately , and that we proceed to arrange the amount of inte « rest . &c , and that Mr O'Connor be the banker . ' Mr Linnet seconded the motion . Mr Dosovix said , he understood the allottees were not rent payers , but interest payers , and hence he wished to know how they could be rendered security . Mr O'Connor said , he had already answered the question , and could only repeat that answer ; aamely , — ' That the law held it as the highest securitv '
Mr Wild said , a very large sum had already been received , and he suggested that the monies should be received precisely the same way as the funds were for the National Land Company . . Mr Raskik said , it was his duty to understand the principles of the Banking System . lie wished to know if a second sum could be raised ? Mr O'Connor said Mr Rankin had been led into an error , as to the position held by the occupants , and hence his data were unfounded . Mr O'Connor said , he had just received a letter from the Steam Engine Makers of Manchester , in which they announced their determination to withdraw their money ( £ 600 ) from Sir B . Hey wood ' s Bank , and transfer it ta the National Land and Labour Bank . ( Tho letter was greeted witn loud cheers . ) Mr Tattkrsaii wished to know , it Mr O'Connor was banker , whether he would be the servant of the Company , and if he could be compelled to giro an annual account ?
Mr O'Connor said , he had already stated he was not bound to vender an annual account , but he would do so . Mr Wheeler thought ths resolution before tke Conference quite uncalled for , as , if Mr O'Connor waa sole banker , of course he would make all the arrangements for conducting it . Mr Smith moved , — ' That this Conference recommend the country to deposit their funds iu the National Land and Labour Bank . ' Mr Dixon seconded the motion . Mr Robert Eidd thought , as the Bank was to be Mr O'Connor ' s , we had no business to go into the details for conducting the same . Mr Burrell thought that the best mode would be to have a Committee , out of which theJSank System should be formed . Mr John Chance thought that the question was simply—Was Mr O'Connor approved ot ?
Mr Whbeleb said , he thought , that , as it was the property of the Land Company on which the money was raised , that Mr Burrell was quite right , and that , under those circumstances , the delegates had to do with it . Mr Donovan supported the amendment . Mr Horn said , he would move an amendment , — ' That the Trustees be instructed to hand over the property as security to the depositors in the National Land and Labour Bank . ' Mr O'Connor explained that this was impossible . The resolution moved by Mr Smith was then unanimously adopted , and Mr Fussell ' s motion was adopted a 9 a rider , with the exception of the
appointment of Mr O'Connor as a Banker . The next question on the programme was the Land Purchase Department . Mr O'Connor said , he thought the objections urged againat it moat frivolous , as it was well known that they could get things cheaper in the wholesale market than in the retail ; and as the person so buying would pay an interest of five per cent , and two pounds ten towards completing the conveyance , it must be an advantage to the Company , and facilitate our operations , as without money they could not obtain Land , and by each purchaser they would receive a benus of £ 2 10 s . independent of the five per cent , interest , and the money which he received as bcuclit by dealing in the wholesale market .
AFTERNOON SITTING . Mr Sweet resumed the chair , at half-past tvro o ' clock . The discussion of the Land Purchase Department was then proceeded with . Mr T . Clark said , he agreed with the motion submitted , having studied it , and was convinced it would bring largesunu to the Company ' s funds , and , if the middle class should come to reside , they would become acquainted with their principles . Mr Martin Jude Baid ! his constituents were of opinion that there should be a limit to the Land purchasing .
Mr Stevens said , his constituents were in favour of ten per cent . Mr Harding moved— ' That members of the Land Purchase Department be admitted , upon condition that they take their allotments as apportioned by a ballot for their location , in common with members of the National Land Company , subject to the understanding that the Company will give them their superintendance to the building of their , houses , and give them the benefits of their wholesale building materials- ' Mr O'Connor seconded the motion . He did not think this class would amount to more than one in seven , and would not be gentlemen , but simply mechanics who had saved money from their own labour , and as to the several allotments , they would be rented at their value , and the rents being equalised the allotments were all equally valuable . It would entail a deal of unnecessary labour on him , and be unjust to the parties named therein .
Mr Rankin supported the views laid down by Mr O'Connor , and said his prejudices were now dissipated . Mr Bukrell moved— ' That they enter on the same terms as the members , having their allotments within twelve months from the time they had paid theii money . ' Mr O ' Connor said , the law would not admit of the resolution moved by Mr Burrell . Mr Wheele !! said , he was entirely in favour of th *
Land Purchase Department , and thought it would Proye one of the mainstays of the Company . Air Clark thought it indispensablo that the names of such parties should be registered . Mr Musday wished to know , if a person who had paid up £ o . Is . for a fouv-acre Bhare , woukl bo allowed that wi the amount lie might pay into the Land Furchase Department . Mr O'CoNNO ia ; No , certainly not ; but he could dispose of his share easily enough . Mr Mdhjvat : Suppose land were purchased , and the uemiMq ballots tor that land , would the Bicai
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. Mrjirasitti , thought , »»*» left entiretywith Mr . O'Connor , t would not gm satisfaction ™ ^ r ^^ s resolution wa scamed by > , oarider . || he next subject » aB « the School ' - ^ as W the time t&gBchoolmasters and mistresses sfeould be appointed : ^ the terms they should hold tbe schools onT ispr Llar * moved— 'That the rent aWuld be th » ^ e as tha t payed by the other allottees . ' . ^ g ^ wtRiHOTON seconded the inotlori , * wwHnu&ii saidr he ^ . 4 i ^ noX t ^ kttfoJQorifijir ence could decide on the sum which the schoolmaster or mistress should charge for each pupil , and henaa the rent should be the same for the land , and the house rent free .
Mr Horsot , irom his experience at O'Connorvilk . agreed with tho observation made by Mr Wheeler . He did n « t think it possible to get rents for the schools at the present time . Mr Webb did not think that high rents for schools could be obtained on any estate at the present moment , Mr Humphries said , he thought it was ridiculous t » build fine school-housea , and then charge high rents , and keep both masters and scholars away ; hence , he was opposed to their paying the same rents as other allottees-Mr Smitu thought the schoolmasters on our estates had opportunities of having boarders , which otherB had not .
Mr Samuel Ktdd thought the schnoU should be looked at more in the light of mental profit—than pecuniary profit . He did not think any schoolniastew would do much for the first twelve months ; schools did not generally get established under three yearsand parents would Hot send tneir children tea distance , when they could get good education at home . As to the appointment of masters and mistresses , he thou » ht the allottees as well qualified as the directors ; hence , he thought tho appoiutment should be invested in them , and that the master ormistreu should havesix months' notice to quit .
Mr 0 Connob said this was impracticable , and never could be carried out ; the minority would be dissatisfied , and probably withdraw their children , and hence there would be a schoolmaster and mistress one month and none the other ; it would be always going in and coming out . He had no hesita . tion in saying , that there would be boarders , and he thought those should pay who consumed the mental food , and as far as inquiring into the qualification went , he thought the directors had the best opportunity ofjudging . Mr Shbrrikoton said , he should be most happy to support the motion of Mr Kydd , as regarded the appointment of the schoolmaster and mistresseB .
Mr Wheeler moved :- ' That the expenses of tho school , be charged on the general expenso of the Estate . ' Which was seconded by Mr Wild , who said , he thought the whole company ought to pay for the erection of the schools , that the parties appointed should be respectable , and well qualified , so that theymisht not only be useful , but an honour to the Company . Mr Mirheld said , ho thought the occupants were much more able to pay ! than many of ! the members of the Company , and in this course . o ' ftwo or three yesra would be in a far better condition ! : Mr Donovan said , the schools had ' been likened to a shop ; well , if a man had mental ^ bod to sell ' , and there were none to buy , he had belter keep out of the house , equally so if he could not sell at the price within the means of the people , and hence he was opposed to the charging of heavy rents and taxes .
Mr Jude suggested the propriety of giving the schoolmasters and mistresses their ground fee , and that such teachers might obtain a portion of the government gra ' nj ; . ;! Mr Burrell would prefer that the directors sent a list ot candidates to the allottees , and that they made choice from such list . Mr Clark said , he would not object to reducing the interest to four or three-and-a-hulf per cent ., which perhaps would obviate the objections made to his motion . Mr Siierrisgton thought the interest of the Company should be the first looked to , and that none should pay but tho 3 e who were benefitted by the schools .
Mr OCossor thought no schoolmaster or mistress should walk in without paying a rental . He recommended the Conference to avoid patronage , or it would lead to the destruction of the funds of the Company . Mr Shaw said , he was desirous that the schoolmasters and mbtresses should be enabled to do their duty—and he did not wish to impose taxes—but he much feared that any of the Company ' s colonies would not for some considerable time be enabled to pay forthc masters and mistresses , lie suggested the propriety of a fund of one penny per share per annum , to meet the demand . Mr IIenrt Smitii thought it quite impraoticablo for the schools to bo self-supporting at first . He should like to know the cost of a school like this . Mr O'Connor : £ 300 .
Mr Uotle said , he paid at the rate of threepence per week each for educating his children ; now there were forty-five families on this estate , and that would realise a tolerable sum , independent of what ho made by his Land , and hence he thought tho master could pay . Mr O'Connor thought a master would bo well able to pay ; however , ho had no objection to support tiie motion lor reducing the interest on the school property to four per cent . Mr Webb did not think the school house should be the property of the master , but of the allottees , so that the allottees could hold meetings when they
required . Mr Rankia said , he did not think tho objection ot Mr Webb to ho a valid one ; they must settle the question in such a way as would not be injurious to those who were not yet allocated . He did not think it was right to tax a man who had no children , for the education of others . Mr Sukrrinoion thought it quite easy to make arrangements for tho use of tbe sciiool room at seasonable hours . Look at what an outcry had been made against the support of religious institutions from which they derived no benefit . Mr Martin Jude thought the whole should support the schools .
Mr Wheeler said , they must recollect that it wonld require a man and woman—and ho would remind them oi the utter impossibility of that mar . and woman having a moment to attend to the land , if they attended to the cultivation of the minds of tho children . Mr O'CoNNOn said , it would be impossible that the plans laid do \ yu by Messrs Jude , Wheeler , and Webb , could be carried out . lie would bo bound to find them a good tenant that never would . be backward , that would pay £ 34 per annum . Mr Mujiday sugcested that the masters anil mistfesEcs might be in some mea'ure paid in the children s labour on their land . Mr Barhek thought the master would be placed in proud position . He would have an excellent opportunity of makiug thirteen shillings per week , after his rent was paid ; besides tlie profits realised from his land .
After a few words from Mr Fuasell , Mr Willis said there were doubts whether the allottees would send their children to the schools ; they might , for the first six months , bo too poor to pay for them—and hence he would suggest the masters and mistresses should live rent free for that tinio . Mr Nuttali . did not think the occupants of either O'Ouunorville or Lowbands would be enabled to afford schooling for their children , for tho fir . " i twelve months , and hence it would be well if thvv made Borne provision for that period ; after that , he thought the occupants might bo enabled to support their own schools . Mr O'Coxnor said , if any did not send their children it would be not because they could not do so , but because they would not . He believed , was the school opened here it would bo full of children .
Mr John Shaw : Ho had no doubt the people were thankful for what they had done i >/ t them , br , i they had not Saturday nights yet , to pa , y for the education of their children . Mr Linnev said , he thought the m / aster might be paid in a measuro iu kind ; but , at tho same time , he had no objeotion to give hi D * tho first jear Mr Uarpiko , ngcwl that' the . acUool-hotyjc should
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i ^ iss " ^^^« laSd /^; ^ f * TOUr of k ^ 0 & $ w j On the . motiotrof ^ MejsrB Donovan and- ' DaoN hSfr *^ ^^ "o ^ lroasters shaft have theschoo-rooms at O'Connorville and Rodmarlev raMHfcttettaiflirt twelve months- but thSS V * l [™ r per eenMbr . the land they hold . ' - 7 rhe Conference then adjourned . ;; / HIRD D « . —Wbds ' ewat , Auoost 18 . ' nhBo ' . S tmmM ih ° Chair . "'¦ half > P wXrwffiW * S f , Walton Committee , ^ ported . that they had dtcidedU- ' . That Mr Barber feffirt * H ? i' ^ for « orScb Mess a fife SSJi ^ t r 3 lift »* -WTO for " £ . ho * e P ° *' wa 3 received .. w&SSSSS ?* ' f i- rose 'i . rae purp « e ° .. ?? , }?• ™™!* h " resolutranrelativa-to thennhnni .
moster be HaWe to be removed' at aix myths' nofcif e SAn ^ i * 1011 * that eff ^ . « iknedb ? z maK £ S ' ? * T ented to'the-dSwton sttS scKLt ^ r " 25 ? didates-for tBrataattan " K ^ f'f ., Dd' ^ por * hereoRliDthe ^ lottees ; that V W . ? rfc 9 / the directors , and names of the candi . -& > i ^ f ^ , ^« te ailottekonqWh prev Otts to the day f eieMion . ' Kr KydoT w » "S SteS andi oontented h «»» etfhy moving the oo 5 Du / I f SroMHMWO TMeondeaithe metien , obhZ u * p » f * ? < ! ? 8 t { tuen . ' "ere unaninwo Bl / in m i ? Principle contained therein .. ii , K «!» 5 i "F movad w * n ameadment , the-resoutionof last Conference , as follows r ^ Schooliaasters tor the locations shall be appointed by the Btard of Directors . Every schoolmaster sha » be liable-fe bo removed at six months ' - notice , unonarendisit-on t «
coat ettnt signed by two thirds of th * allottee * and presented by them to tbe directors . ' He thought , m thepupils wou d not be ail children of aUottew , the best mode would be for the directors to . appoint ; cmd th « all ° « ees to remove , ifweasion required , tw i ? ° n H secondedk the amendment , and Ba « k wu ^ the T pany ba « taken on themselves-to build the schoel , so should ' they have , through th * direetors , the means of appointment . He thought ' the original resolution , the directors first' selecting » list , and the allottees choosing from that list ; would bean insult to the allottees ; and . he thoughttha directors best qualified for the appointment < of' 8 uoil ptiicers , seeing they would have the opportunity of inquiring into tbe moral , as wellas the mental capacity of the Beveral candidates .. Mr T . M . Wheeleh said , were the school-the property of the allottees , he would have supported * Mr lvydd ' s motion , but as the school was the property of
me torapany , they should appoint fcheschoolmaotera ; and another reason was , that at O'Connorville there were twenty applicants for the appointmentof schoolmaster , not one of whom was known to the allottecs . Mr Burrell said , on principle he was bound to support the motion of Mr Eydd . He denied that tile schools were the property of the Company , as the schoolmaster would have to pay the rent , such rents coming from the pockets of the allottee * tor the instruction reosived by their children ; and as such , the allottees were the best calculated for appointing suchpersons ,
Mr O Connor said , Mr Barrell thought that , were tneappointment vested in directors , it would Jead them to give the patronage to their children and relatives , buttho directors had scarcely any childrenand he had no relatives he could desire to bestow patronage on . Again , the school was not the property of the allottcos—but of the Company-and then , the sending a list of candidates to them , for them to select from , would be like no election at all , andmujht be something like Homo Tookeis basket ot rotten apples , not a sound one amongbt them . Mr Burrel . ' s speech had thoroughly convinced him ol tho necessity of leaving theappointmenfc in the hands Ot the directors .
Mr Shebrinoton said , Mr Clark seemed to think that the school was the property of the Company , and that the allottees should have no control over ii —but if they adopted this resolution , they would be saying to the allottees- ' You are so bigotted , so ignorant , that you are not fit to cRoose a schoolmaster , yet wo will invest you with the right of electing a member of Parliament . ' Ho believed the resolution would give the allottees a choice , and , notwithstand ing what Mr Donovan had said , there was something in personal appearance . A person suitable for i > Bcliolmaster should be of mild disposition , and oi courteous bearing , or ho would prove useless as a teacher , Mr Robebt Kidd said , he was bound by his instructions , as well as from bis own feelings and convictions , to support Mr Samuel Kydd's motion .
Mr Rankis said , he thought there was scarcely a man in this room but had advocated the right of the people to Universal Suffrage , and it did appear strango that they should be now told they were not fit to choose a schoolmaster , feeling thus , he would support the original resolution . Mr Dixon said , he was sorry to oppose his friend , Mr Rankin . lie could not think it Universal Suffrage to allow thirty-five men to elect for a Companj of 30 , 000 . _ Again , tho religious opinions of the allottees might bo as various as the number of the ottages on the estate , and each would require a man of their own persuasion—which must lead to heartburninga—and he thou-iht the directors , being chosen by the members , the masters would be carrying out tho great principles of Democracy .
MrWEBU said , theie was a difference of opinion on the subject in Stockport—the majority was in favour of the directors having tho appointment , and hence , he would support that view . Mr Sandkrs wished the appointment to be left in tho hands of the Conference . Mr IIardino said , he had held all along the principles laid down in the amendment of Mr Clark , and Iris constituents were of the same opinion . Mr Jones ( Leicester ) said , he was convinced Mr
Clark was right , and ho should vote against his constituents ' wish , but ho trusted to convince tliemot the sound policy of his vote on his return . Mr IIumi'hrzks said , ho gltould support tlie motion of Mr Kydd , as he thought , were the residents of one estate dissatisfied , it would go thrcush the whole country , . and , notwithstanding all that had been said , ho believed tbat if tho appointment were vested in the directors , it would lead to patronage . lie could not agree with Mr Dhon ' i reasoning on Universal Suffrage .
Mr Dawson wished . the appointments invested in Mr O'Connor . Mr O'Connor I would not take it . Mr Dawson moved a resolution to that effect , which was seconded by Mr Shaw , who said he had made up his mind to support the proposition , that the directors ihonld appoint the schoolmasters . Mr Grassbv said , after the last Conference , an angry discussion had . arisen in Westminster on this subject . Ho would inovo an amendment : — ' That the directorj be allowed to select and recommend te t , ho allotteea suitablo persons to fill the office of schoolmaster , and that such schoolmasters be elected by ballot by tho allottees , and that such schoolmaster be subject to removal by a vote of two thirds of the allottees , sanctioned by the Board of Directors . ' Mr AtmsTEADBupported Mr Clark's motion , as did also Mr Willis .
Mr Jenkins said , lie would support MrGrassbv ' s Amendment . Mr Bahher thought , in the prosent state of sectarianism , Mr Clark's would be tho preferable proposition . \ Ir Wild thought Mr Clark's was tho best proposition , nnd hence ho would uive it his support . Mr Numtii had boen in favour of Mr Kydd ' s mo tion , but from the reasoning he had heard he should support Wr Clark's amendment . Mr Su / iton thought tbe allottees did not siifliciontly Know each other to make a goad choice , and as the rule only stood for twelve months , he would support Mr Clark ' s" amendment .
Mi- M'Uiiatu said , there were but two arguments a » avast Mr Clark ' s motion , patronage , and that it w »/ i not demooratic ; however , he thought patronage dv-poscdof but umldr Mr Kydd's resolution patronage ( ; oiiild ami would be used , as each would be desirous of having a friend as the master ; as to the democratic argument , the allottees would bo responsible to uo otic , but the di'octors would bo responsible to those who elected them . He tlmnqht Mr Clark ' s Imposition was firmed 0 & principb , justice , and democracy . Mr Linnky said , he could not see that the appointment of the directors would lead to patronage ; if a master found the allottees dissatisfied he decidedly would not stop . ¦ 1 1 5 > | ' ¦ * >
Mr Mu . vdav thought the allottees should have the power ; it the directors appointed several who were uot satisfactory to the allottees , ifc would deter qualified persons from putting up for the situation , and ai he was opposed to centralisation , he should vote for the allottees having the appointment . Mr Doylb thought the principle of allottees electing schoolmasters was unsound , teeing the allottees were subject to change , and it might happen that tho ma > jority might uet Jwld principles in unison with , those e e l- 16
Untitled Article
^^ " aa ' ^ ayai ; - ' ¦ 3 f v »| ssaS ! i ^ qualification of the applicants as the director * honnn he mustWort Mr CJark ' s motion l ' ° : Mr A . Fvmu , eaid , believing it to be most in : accorda W ( jwi . thunmrsal suffrage ; he ehonld vote forHne alldt-tees , having the appointment of flyj ; gchqolma 8 ter ; . and . he thought they would be well calculated to form a judgment on the subject . :. Mr Sandkrs' ( BJandford ) would support the motioa ofMrCiarL ' \ ' > : -Mr - Tauor w . ould support the motion that tha ' alldttees should select ., ' : -. , . ' ,,.,
; .. jMr , S * ujh ( Braivord ) irtnld support the motion of Mr Clark . '¦' : ¦ ¦ ' ., ; \ . : ; ¦ ' ¦• - ' ¦ •; .: , Mr ' Horta would ? upport Mr Clark's motion . ; Mr AfiRFieti 1 would * support the motion tbat tbe dirbctors hi y ^ th ap pbintment . ; Mr Ebwards woukVsupport Mr Clark ' s metion . Mrs , Kini , aaid he \ had not troubled them with tk jpeech at the opening ,- . « b he had expressed his opi"P . - ^ . Wjerday , - He thought it was a simple princi * pie fcha » the allottees jho ^ U both ' have the right to tncpse and depose . , He t > n entered into an argumentatire speech . j B refutation , of ' the objection * , urgea aglEfit his motion «« t ) HnVH ttmt if . haA Wn
K * ed , {^ ' P « ° pto « Mootland were pntireI yIa ™ i J ™ *? "J ^ ** "hloh lAe had rimed in accord'IVn . T ? ' heS of » n El - ^ glish constituency . mont hSi " 8 * 1 ^? 8 then W * > nd Mr Clark ' » m * ^ S ^ tobe camed by Vlarge majority . / . wit' ^ iwS . ^ a » 8 ing'i tomtbo programme , Do ? nJl 'S . n * benth ? 8 Cl 1001 ' - * a 8 tcr 8 shouldbeap ! an £ i r 00 , C 51 n ^ ville an ( l Inlands . ' It wu 385 K 8 v ' " rhat thL i ** left * ith tha JPtSfFp i wWrt to make a complaint relative mriffZS ! f y » K ke t ' lf l alle 8 > V was improperly wa 9 ^ l i ^ t balh 8 before tllBJa >* i "Pon "hich it oZS i ttat a CCTnniittee of fii * be appointed to SET 3 uch case « a ^ report to C \ mforence . Tha K \ M a P £ rSOnS ^ eK > ^ pointed :- -aicssrs Robert ' £ ¦ - ' , & Fu 88 el Button , J . Shaw " . ' ¦ and Hewitt .
the 1 . " rSS ^ w- 8 Bbfflltted the D exl < l' «» tionoB i X vr ne reIatir / t 0 Benefit Si < eietie » . ' nrn »««!^ " " Novedt&at the next \ rasinessonthe ISnfSSi ^^^^ ^*^ , ;?? ,- ? f ? nde 4 'JS , iW'W '" 4 " ° f Sauls ' " w ^ Uh '> ndiscusseilP .. ?„ ? mm aidl thcre ffere little bits on all esta esnot m « valuable as others . If left to him , he would cbugeift accordance with their val " bo ; and on the Lowland * estate there were some acres worth £ i 9 an acre .-and otters worth « M , and these must pajpro ^ rtionatelr . lie proposed that the . illotmenti fivl ^ r" %$ ? £££ aeir real VaIue ' ali 3 WiD * Mr Whkeler . moved , 'That Mr O'Ci mnor La ™ £ ? i . t 0 re « ** toe rentslB Bbarged . Mr Shaw seconded the motion .
Mr Wxbb moved , 'That two practical formers , « f ° feV" ! " % O'Connor , constitute a jury of arbitration to decide on the -matter . ' \ Mr tausBr- second Mr Webb ' s amendnu Wt . ; mI w £ J'T coutd - sce e&jfeetion to it . \ > "Wers ^ oto w carried , and the > Con .. . terence adjourned . ' * ; ArmtiooN Sirws . . Tn . T »« Tre 8 umBdthec ^ ir , afchalf . pa 9 ttW ( r . jseedcdStT " * ^ - ^ wi ™ . was than pro-.-reproductive The Policy bein B toit " ouldT . 15 nducementfbr people to insure theit ™ Z 2 1 *
, iivM . it tbey ttouaht well ,. hiraBelf and brother directors wobW get all the information necessarX and se . the thing going xnth ail di-jpatcb , Mr Donotan supported the proposition , and 3 thoHglit the directors wonld < lo welt to carry it out a » - •' i speedily as possible , and sure he wee-, tbat it would . : eo on even with more rapidity than the Land-Han .. Mr ITabdwo . moved : * - ' That the Company esta-. L . ^ Insurance Office upon-tha test computed . tables hitherto devised , and that the property of thev Company be insured therein , andShat stock , with , lives- be eligible for insurance . ' Mr LisNKYseoondcd the raokioi ) . Mr WiiEELBitsupported the motioa , as did also Me * MlREIELD . MrSiiAwwas favourable to tho insurance of li ve * and live stock , but was npposed . to fire insurance
. Mr Doylb did not think the allottees would burft-£ ' r nr uses iot th ? sa . ke of the ian > ran / x > . Mr- Whbelkr said his friend Shaw seemed to think that people would burn down the houses and furniture , for . the purpose ef getting valuo for one nalf-( loud laughter . ) After a few words from Mr Scaa , the queslie-nwa * put and carried unanimously . The Conference then adjournoiJ .
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RESULT OF THE BALLOT . Below will be found the names of all those partiw who have been successful in the ballot of this week * IpJ n n irst ' Second « T 1 '( ' » d Fourth Section ! .-I he Ballot commenced Vh Monday evening , and was continued each successive evening , up to Thursday , when the business was brought to a conclusion , by the ballot for the Fourth Section . A committee * of seven disinterested mon was appointed , underwhose able and impartial management the ballofr was conducted in such a manner as to give tfl » highest satisfaction to all present . Each section had alloted to it the quantity ofland to which its . ' capital entitled it , and hencotho disparity which appears in the numbers , but . they are aa nearly proportionate as possible . P . M'Grath , Secretary .
FIRST SECTION . Two Acre ? . F . G . Rhodes Stockport Luke Tomlinson Stockporfc Thomas Sutton Office List Samuel Whalley Manchester W . II . Curtis Whittington and Cafe . Three Acrr » . Isaac Clayton Bradford ( York ) George Johnston Ditto William Gent Wellinborougb . Four Acres . Senior Bradloy Manchester James Watson Ditto William Pegg Old Basford William Place Westminster Samuel Edge Salford Jolm Guest Manchester Peter Rothwell Olilham SECOND SECTION . Two Acres . Johu Clark Nuneatoa diaries Tinham Oflieo List William Ashforth Ualitiix llobert Wilson Walsoken , Francis Wright i « fottmg&aai : Charleg Frith Greenwich Three Acrc . n . Robert Renton Edinburgh John ilcmmiugway JDewsbury William Ableson Stockton Muthe ir Henderson . G lasgotv Four Acstb : William Rice Bradford Robert Carr Corbridge Thomas Taylor Manchester Joseph Wood llaworth James Thompson Swindon Charles Challwood Manchester William Faynton Office List Thomas Abbott Manchester-Obadiak Pago Bilston Hilton Elton Droylsden Mary lloywood Kewton Aebate » Richard Wallace Maidstouo '"" THIRD SECTION . 'i ' wo Acrcx . William Johnson Manchester William Peckett Office List William Iiolditch Cheltenham Constantino Jay Hull Johu Carter Upton-on-SeVern Peter Quinton Tcignmouth ' Emma Adams Banbury John Neild Cborley James Smith Birmingham Tlivee Acw ,, James Turk Swiadon Nathauiel Lee Nottingham Thomas Harrison Northam pton Henry Reed Chelsea John Austin Bauburv Jobn Day Sumlcrlaud ' "i Tow Acres . William Vigors Sinethwick Martha Smith Banburv William Hall Stow . on . the-Wok \ George Egliu Manchester \ Jehu John Messenger , OSoa Lisk . Samuel lludlcy , sen . ) ,, „ ,, Samuel lludley , jun . } hoAon James Ray Leeds James Thorpe Derby John Robert Itauso Nowton Abbott JohnBurley " ) Samuel Widdowson > Nottiufiham ' Joseph Silvester ) Joseph Roper I DuckeuGcld S © a- ' a ^ . Luke WilUamson Staljbndge Robert Chadwick Burnley The above is a true , and correct list of memUr who have beon successful in the present ba'lot . ; . . ' TaojugPiciiBWQiiiu Ohwriaaa ?—1 : « Si ; ..
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r tijdeinenstotioni came off on Monday , August v * Sunday , Uieday previous , found numer ous ^ llfr ff ^ mBthamSm with viewing this » ' t 0 ^ ; ' It 3 tasteful 5 ^ 3 , swing ! ' ^ M » MM piers at the several entrances , and ^ tnl < 5 « ccnt ^ ^ ^*? J ! tone-l' « iltcottage 8 , &ns » . and the splendid school , were the ^ ofn " IIluedadmi . t ? tlon- Itwas qniterefrwh-C « toess the maEmficent crops of wheat , bariev , h , ith which the neighbourhood abjunds . Mr ui
Por tias aqu » , uy wrowsgraring on themea-& ffhich Konllle ? aer of all-whilst his * * C fB monster meat , and model potatoes , excel-^ io sie . V ^ j _ , aaA qoantity any we ever saw , ^ universally attractive . Mr O'Connor , whoia 5 ^ 'the Squi re , appears to be the ' admired of &ire « . ' b - T tbe P °° r and shopkeepers for miles p whibtthe ' smaU gentry , ' with whom itwas ( to come ini contact , all appeared to have the Sjtest dread of O Connor , the Charter , and the KjjiFsrm System , and sneeringly asked if the gjj&sffere coming on Monday'to have a good % and set jolly drunk V and appeared quite Wed when we told them that the Chartists wem
T ! ffcr , rtflM L S . P Pk . aBd that many of them *¦ total abstainers of longstanding ; and were Jaally petrified when we shewed them that the v classes were the mainstay of the State and ' -jsrmore importance than the aristocracv—and L it was the purpose of the Chartists , In building gse 'home colonies / to obtain a legitimate influ-^ by the exercise of the franchise . " jfcaday morning arrived , and we found people fjtU nein from all parts , some having travelled over S miles ; vans , waggons , carts , chaises , and the Jj , baring each contribnted their quota of anxious wrtfiors and _ admirers of the 1 ' eot . le'a « , A
j j gie . But the elements appeared to have conci red against the good caase , for the weather , which y been peculiarly fine on the previous day , now be-^ e bazy ; the Malvern Hills , -which rise iH the ^ wiice , were capped with a thick mist , and at nine tgocX the rain came pelting down , and continued so jdo until five o ' clock in tbeafternoon , thus destroyjgtfce bright hopes and pleasant prospects of the Msoe seekers and visitors , notwithstanding which toands gratified their cariosity by narrowly in > the CottagesSchoolte
' ¦ ' ffctmg , , . A hustings had jl-en erected , and at three o ' clock , notwithstanding £ ponring , pelting rain , vast numbers gathered ^ cd the platform . The leading men having count ed with Mr . O'Connor , concluded tbat it would Se an act of cruelty to keep the people standing lis-£ ing to speeches under such circumstances . Mr . T . Cubke , therefore , in a few words , anjjaccea tms decision to the meeting , who gave three $ i and long cheers for the Charter and the Land ca retired . '
J > > t ' t I ' [ r I ' f Shortly after five o ' clock , the rain having cleared g , ve found Mr . O'Cowroa in the act of addressing jBultitude of people from the hustings : — fls congratubtedthem on their improved intellect , gd their improved position ; they now constituted a jjBihpart of the House of Commons , and their prin . op les would be now proclaimed , trumpet-tonguedi o the whole worid . ( Great applause . ) Their good lamonr was a proof that they knew how to bear jith disappointment . ( Hear , hear . ) What would t « not have given for such a day as yesterday . / C heers . ) The Whigs said they were too ignorant , set had they built any places like that ( pointing to fee school . ) in which to enlighten the people ? = Loud cheers . ) This was the memorable 16 th of . taust ; he dared sav there were some present who
1 , e j t " \ y ' 1 a : eaea ) bered it as a bloody day on the ensanguined k'A of Peterloo . He should like to see the Itomaiiry that wonld venture here , even with the . pie of Wellington or that other Field-Marshal at Jitir head . ( Great cheering . ) lie could under- i find what poverty and famine was , if , when they lingered , a dish or two also disappeared from the able of ihe Queen . ( Hear , hear . ) He had recently r ; K-d on a platform with a Queen ' s iMinister , and ftiumphed over him . ( Loud cheers . ) That Minister ad , if he saw his ( Mr O'Connor ' s ) principles .-L-ls : he would adopt them , but he ( Mr O'Connor ) di him that he was bis pupil—he , therefore , recoamended him to go hack and re-adopt his own ia principles . ( Loud cheers . ) In the newParliai ran would be found about one hundred railway
saectors . &c , who would act on the principle ; sra'ch me , and I will scratch you —( Laughter )—kt he had determined that , however much he might snatch ihpm . »«« or them should scratch him . ( Resewed laughter . ) True , Walpole said , that ; jTcry man had his rVine , and lie ( Mr O'Connor ) had iis-it was Univers , Suffrage , Vote by Ballot , An- ' Hal Parliaments , Equal Electoral Districts , Pay-Eat of Members , ISo Property Qualification , and a Homestead for the Working Man . ( Immense cheerisg . ) It was said the working classes were immoral , te this he knew , that the middle classes could not i-einble together for two hours , without black eyes cd bloody noses—but where was the drunken man fi be seen amongst them ? ( Great applause . ) He taught men that were sent to Parliament should
m men who had graduated amongst themnen who understood the science of cottage art political ecouomy . ( Loud cheers . ) Although this wet day had disappointed many , there was one gratifying circumstances with it , —whilst the visitors wold go home disappointed , the allottees' potatoes * ould be much more numerous , and of much greater weight . ( Cheers . ) H" : had very great pleasureinsuperintendiiig this estate , and he should shortlyliave the Measure of converting the estate of a dissipated nobleman , into residences for industrious working men . ( Loud cheers . ) It was his lot to pay off tbtir debts , and the people's lot , by their sobriety
am economy , to find the money , and enjoy the pro- d ' -ice arising from the possession of such estates . ( Loud cheers . ) He had commenced with the b ! fctered hands , and with them he would fi ^ ht the battle to the end . Mr O'Connor retired amidst wree times three heany cheere . ^ lr Samcel Kid » then came forward , loudly an-Piaudtd , and said he , like other young men , had T « ry stupidly endeavoured to get knowledge out of « H ) ibalone , butthhwas anew era , and he now » mmenced with nature , and hia mother earth «« n , from the bleak north to the sunny south , had tow began to ask , 'Am I a man V ( Loud cheers ) Ue tiionght no man need blush to ewn that he was * Chartist , for out sf the political movement had arisen this great Land Movement , and the
trades-Jaen and gentry should r « joice at it , as it must have « ie effect uf saving the country Irom war , and bloodwed , and their desolating and degrading conse-QDences . Yet the Chartists have been told that they want to take everything from everybody , and to give nothing to nobody . ( Qear , hear . ) The producing classes had been cruelly used , but they did ast -wish to retaliate , ( hear , hear , ) but they would CO on buying Land , and building cottages , and every cottager would represent a vokr , and thus would tk-y obtain the legislative power of redressing their grievances . ( Loud cheers . ) It had been said by weir opponents , that the working classes were ide , bat till * 'Home Colonies' showed that they were jnue willing to labour , provided the products of Jfeir labour were applied to their own minimi * .
Oflnd cheers . ) They had been told that he had , 7 . 8 le « ed member for Greenwich—true , he m been morally elected by the great majority J « Admiral Dundas had ' been elected b the &iaonty , yet , Admiral Dnndas . was declared ! « uj elected » jd te , < Mr Kydd , ) not SO . ( IE f > , 5 ean ) . PUt thereWa 8 one ma » whose elei ton had puzzled most newspaper writers-he refer-^ d to Mr O Connor , ( great applauSe , ) Whom they ^ newspapers , all called upon to give up his mad ^ Eeajes , and become a sober politician , lie ( Mr ^ J ad ) contended that he had always been a sober Whician . Had he not , when in the House , suptorttd the case cf the Glasgow cotton spinners , and lkrchester labourers , ( luud cheers ;) and did he ?« aid Mr John Bell , who was prosecuted forwrit-!* 5 an txeilient article in a Questionable newsnanpr .
war , hear . } He couid tell Mr O'Connor , that co-Wraiion was destined to do much mere than buy ton and build houses ; ihe people would Eoon possess * orfclinp 3 , &c , not to rob the employer , but to enj " wemselvcs . ( Immense cheering . ) This was new era—a glorious era—in which the pride and itty of England would be admitted to consist , not ^ wyonets or blood-horses , but in the comfort , prosr ?« y . and happiBess of her sons . Mr Kvdd resumed nf 3 fe loudly applaudtd . « ncet ; o ' Mott . raDJ . al «> ably addressed ihe Jiet ^ * ' 5 i i mendin S the young women present < Wt 3 hu 8 uaDds until the man became a
fc f ? Bdcd P pnblic meetin s-^ SS - ' ^ ^ ^ nthropiet , was prefigjfgWwH ^ MrAIlMB , and several otber 116 J ^ PJe then quiitly separated ,
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Citation
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Northern Star (1837-1852), Aug. 21, 1847, page unpag, in the Nineteenth-Century Serials Edition (2008; 2018) ncse.ac.uk/periodicals/ns/issues/vm2-ncseproduct1432/page/1/
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